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Statesville, NC | I've ran Bobcats for 40 + years, starting with the 610 my dad bought when I was about 10, and now an S series, all with pedals. I've thought about getting something newer, that would have switchable ISO and H pattern. Coming from the older Bobcats, which would be easier to learn? I've thought the H may be easier, but maybe I should go to the ISO to start with? |
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Sioux County, NWIA | My opinion, if you are coming from foot pedals H pattern will be more reflexive. I don’t see the attraction to ISO except for those used to running an excavator.
Try before you buy in any case. |
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| I'm 38, been running Bobcats for 20 years with foot controls. My new job bought a brand new T770 with ISO or H pattern, I started on ISO, it was tough, went to H pattern for about 30 minutes...... back to ISO and I'll never go back to H or foot controls. I could never get used to pushing both hands forward and twisting my wrists while in H pattern. I'm the type that pushes snow, moves dirt, scooped rock all while moving. If you stab a dirt pile, stop, roll bucket, lift, then back out, H pattern will work for you. But if your speedy and efficient, ISO is much easier to adapt to.
It helps that I've ran a pay loader with the right hand joystick, identical to the bobcat ISO pattern.
Edited by Brahamfiremen 3/5/2021 22:01
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| Foot pedals and sticks for life! Ugh- not a fan of the electric joysticks h or iso but I suppose you will figure it out eventually. Friends like ISO but I usually drive in H if I have to. |
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| ISO was pretty simple to catch on to. The controls for the bucket are the same as any farm tractor with a loader joystick. I’d pick H pattern next then foot controls. My feet don’t move well enough to use them.
When I jump in an excavator to use it I’m good with the controls till I want to move and try to drive with the left joystick just like our skid steer. |
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West Texas | ISO for me. I loved foot controls and felt ‘fast’ using them. I’m just as fast on ISO and way more precise. |
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Central Minnesota | ISO, you can drive with one hand and use the other one to do other necessary things if you want. |
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| We had an old Case skid loader for years with the mechanical H pattern. Very used to it and very comfortable with it.
The few times I've been in a skid with foot pedals it was always very uncomfortable. I'm not sure why anyone ever thought that trying to run a loader with your feet was a good idea but whatever. My hands are much better with fine/smooth movements than my feet are.
Bought a newer used Case a few months ago that is ISO. Took a little getting used to but I think eventually I'll like it better than the old H pattern. One thing that is nice is that you can take one hand off of the controls to adjust the radio or heat/AC while you drive across the yard. Taking a hand off of the controls with the old H pattern usually resulted in a turning sideways quickly.
Some of the newer skids (Case has it available for sure on the new models) have selectable ISO or H pattern. Just flip a switch to get your desired controls.
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West Central Mo | ISO all the way. If you have to move any sort of distance it is nice to be able to take one hand off of a joystick. I never understood the appeal of foot controls. There is no way on earth you can be as precise with foot controls as you can ISO or H. Does a surgeon use his hands to operate on a patient or his feet? |
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Madison Co. Virginia | Brahamfiremen - 3/5/2021 22:57
I could never get used to pushing both hands forward and twisting my wrists while in H pattern. I'm the type that pushes snow, moves dirt, scooped rock all while moving. If you stab a dirt pile, stop, roll bucket, lift, then back out, H pattern will work for you. But if your speedy and efficient, ISO is much easier to adapt to.
That's a personal experience thing only. I've grown up on two skid loaders. A Case 1835c and a Case 1840. Same basic machine with a few much needed improvements on the 1840. These have the H-pattern controls. I most assuredly do NOT stop forward travel to operate the loader. It's about as seamless and intuitive as it gets. The skidloader feels much like an extension of my own body. I merely think that I need to scoop into this pile, and then travel in that direction, and it happens. There's no more conscious thought required than that.
I tried a ISO control machine once, and realized I would be a complete risk to life and property with the thing. There was too much chance that my brain would revert back to H-pattern in the heat of the moment, and spiral the skidsteer through the house wall. |
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Bremen, KS | Very first skid steer I ran was in 1978 and it was a Case Uniloader with hand controls--the bucket worked on one hand lever and the boom on the other. A couple years later dad bought a New Holland L445 with foot controls. That was very easy to use and I was quite proficient with it. I've not run a skid steer except once, a Deere for a couple hours, for at least 30 years. I would probably still have the muscle memory for the old L445.
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coast of Maine | Trent2520,I started driving hand /foot at about 10 yo also on a 610 bobcat but 50 years ago.I can pick up a soda can with forks and take to the trash, and have opened barn doors and latches ,tons of agility with hand /foot ,its just what I grew up on.Spent the better part of a decade just moving honeybee hives around theUSA with a 610 tagging along.I would not change now unless injuries to my legs or feet caused it.What do you do with your feet when just hands....hmmm,,,tap dance?,my excavator my feet run travel,my bulldozer brakes/steer,my car brakes ,throttle,,hmmm |
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SE Nebraska, Near Misery and Cans Ass! | Brahamfiremen - 3/5/2021 21:57 I'm 38, been running Bobcats for 20 years with foot controls. My new job bought a brand new T770 with ISO or H pattern, I started on ISO, it was tough, went to H pattern for about 30 minutes...... back to ISO and I'll never go back to H or foot controls. I could never get used to pushing both hands forward and twisting my wrists while in H pattern. I'm the type that pushes snow, moves dirt, scooped rock all while moving. If you stab a dirt pile, stop, roll bucket, lift, then back out, H pattern will work for you. But if your speedy and efficient, ISO is much easier to adapt to. It helps that I've ran a pay loader with the right hand joystick, identical to the bobcat ISO pattern. What he said!!!!! Oh and I'm pushing 70, after you run ISO a while and a new operator asks you what lever does what you will have to go through the motions to figure it out to tell them, it's that intuitive.
Edited by nebfarmer 3/6/2021 06:04
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NC Iowa | Right foot runs a foot throttle.
Left foot In my old skid ran aux hyds and had a foot throttle.
So no tap dancing for me.
My new skid has pilot controlled ISO, it's a dream to operate. |
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Vermont | I still prefer hand and foot controls, but the bobcat I run most of the time now is ISO/H, and I picked up ISO way easier. H pattern is an absolute nightmare to me, I just can't wrap my head around each stick doing two different things at once. I do miss having each set of wheels under my control, instead of how the computer decides to interpret the stick movement, but that's the only downside. |
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North Central OH | We have always had foot controls, have ran H pattern without issue before (aside from it was mechanical and that's hard on your wrists). I can run a joystick loader just fine but the travel portion of iso would probably take me a long time to get used to. |
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NC Iowa | If you get extremely good at both H and ISO I think you’ll probably look back and say why did I bother ever using H pattern. It only takes a short while of forcing yourself to do it until it becomes effortless. |
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| My first skid steer was a 345 Mustang, bought it new. T handle and foot controls. It was amazing how proficient I became on that machine. Latest machines are selectable H or ISO. Absolutely hate H pattern now. Only thing I don’t like about ISO is my left forearm gets tired if running long distance without having to move my arm much. ISO all the way.
Edited by Boone & Crockett 3/6/2021 06:46
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n.c.iowa | I started off with a melroe 310.....
today we have a case sv280 .
I would go with a machine that is convertible from iso to H pattern. I prefer iso, the other family members prefer H pattern. |
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South Central North Dakota | I didn't have a skid steer til 10 years ago,older Bobcat I got along fine with that, foot controls. I bought " new used" JCB iso joy stick control ,what has helped in the transition with that is the creeper speed option. It makes manuvering in close spaces much less stressful as it takes a lot of joy stick movement to produce motion, seems keep my left arm from getting fatigued from being tensed up. |
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Sioux County, NWIA | Your experience is the same as mine. I grew up on an 1835B and still run them to this day. Tried ISO multiple times. Downright dangerous as you will instinctively push both sticks forward to take off forward which gets you moving forward but with the arms moving down when you don’t expect them to. I can run foot pedals too, no problem, but feet don’t have the dexterity that hands do. Also thoroughly hate full electric over hydraulic controls. Most mechanical or pilot controls have some feedback. E/H doesn’t and that computer between you and the machine will never be as good at running the machine as you are. |
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| We own a 1840 case with mechanical h pattern and at work we have selectable and I run in iso. I can’t get the feel of h pattern without the feedback of the levers |
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SW Minnesota | I am a surgeon with foot pedals, but I’ve been in one everyday for most my life. Since the fire a few other skids have been on the yard. I have limited experience with ISO pilot controls but when I pick a new one it’s gonna take me a long time to get used to it, because I was terrible the bit I ran it, just can’t convince my right hand not to drive....
I also played drums so foot control was learned early. |
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Lawton MI | Over the past 30+ years I’ve run them all, started with hand and foot which was fine then to H pattern. The H was a lot easier for me to be very precise with and I preferred them. About two years ago I borrowed my son’s with ISO controls and I looked like a rank amateur for about an hour, but then they started becoming quite natural to use. I’ve run all kinds of loaders, most with a joystick, so that part was easy. Now, given a choice, I would choose ISO every time. I really like having one hand free during travel to do other things and the foot throttle is handy. Use caution when first learning ISO, you probably don’t want to try any precision work (I started moving brush and trees out in the open). |
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Southeast Colorado | Well your hands were playing the drums as well weren't they?...........LOL. Maybe your parents never gave you any sticks! |
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s nd | Got my first skidsteer around 50 years old. Hand and foot. Decided time for an upgrade last winter and got all sorts of recs for controls. Im 63now and love the ISO. Guys on here said they would never go back to hand/foot, so didn't. Once in awhile when I pull up to a building to pull the snow back with the bucket I can zig zag back and forth a little more/faster that I like, but sure like it. |
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SEMO | I have ran all 3 I think the new bobcat are only hand and foot or ISO and H pattern was told H pattern or foot controls would no longer be available on the same machine when we bought our last one in 19 |
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Ontario | Well Trent, I guess now you know why they build all 3, cause there’s still a lot of support for all 3 and you can find guys who insist that their way is the best, with a host of experience to back their decision.
I was going to buy a switchable one this spring, hand foot, ISO, so that my 13yr old could get onto iso, and the old guy (me) could still use H&F if he became confused, then the son said “Dad just get a hand foot, they still make them”. I did. Good savings and we will cross the pattern bridge next time we trade. |
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SW Minnesota | Haha, it’ll be a learning curve to not drive rwith my right. |
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west central Iowa | We had a Lahman Little Dipper first, hand and foot, I could cross the sticks and do a 180 in a 9' alley, and I got along fine with the foot controls on the loader. Than a Case with the H pattern which was very easy to get used to. Then I tried tried to run a Bobcat with ISO loading seed pallets and hated it. I ran it enough doing other stuff to get used to it, but would still choose either one of the other two over ISO. It didn't help that I was used to running a tractor loader with a joystick on the other side. Edit to add if I needed to scratch my nose while driving with an H pattern I just used my leg to hold the lever and keep driving.
Edited by 801486 3/7/2021 09:41
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Madison Co. Virginia | I replied earlier to this thread, saying I've spent less than two minutes on a ISO machine. I use H pattern exclusively. I've got a couple questions about how ISO controls the wheel speed and direction.
If you push the "wheel" stick all the way to the left, without moving it fore or aft, what happens?
If you push the "wheel" stick all the way forward and left, what happens? |
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E SD | Preferred the H patter on mechanical linkage models. With switchable EH controls ISO is easier to run.
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Madison Co. Virginia | Gearclash - 3/6/2021 08:42
Most mechanical or pilot controls have some feedback.
Can you explain further?
In my Case 1835c/1840, the control stick is directly attached to a small rotary spool valve inside the hydrostat. This valve controls the oil flow to the servo pistons, and it self-centers based on oil return from those servos. This is very similar to how hydrostatic steering works on almost every tractor out there. The servo pistons move the swash plate, which changes the pump flow. There's no opportunity for any force feedback in the system at all. |
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SCNE | ISO hands down. Drive with the left bucket controls with the right. |
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| Personally, have spent 10’s of thousands of hours in bobcat with hand/ foot controls, nothing is smoother to operate than the older ones where the control actually hooks to the valve mechanically. Any of the electric over hydraulic stuff is less smooth. I prefer hand and foot, have no problem with h pattern. Have spent a little time in a couple different machines that were iso- that’s not for me. But it all comes down to personal preference. |
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Somerville, Indiana | kipps - 3/6/2021 10:01
I replied earlier to this thread, saying I've spent less than two minutes on a ISO machine. I use H pattern exclusively. I've got a couple questions about how ISO controls the wheel speed and direction.
If you push the "wheel" stick all the way to the left, without moving it fore or aft, what happens?
If you push the "wheel" stick all the way forward and left, what happens?
1.Some will counter rotate
2.The right side goes forward, left is still, so turns to the left |
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Sioux County, NWIA | Yea, I would agree servo controls don’t really have any feedback, and I guess most of the pilot controls I’ve run don’t have much either. I would prefer either pilot or servo control to E/H though. Compared to direct control (like the hydro on an 1835B) a servo control is quite numb, but at least the reaction is more linear than an E/H system where you are telling a computer what you want the machine to do and the computer decides how much to move the hydros or valve spools. I’ve kind of concluded that E/H systems are programed to make an inept operator into a mediocre operator, but at the same time the E/H programing succeeds in making a skilled operator into a mediocre operator also. At least that was my experience with CAT. I spent a lot of time on the Case 1835B which has mechanical swash plate control and mechanical loader control. That has ruined me for anything else. The Case 420 we had for a while was a servo hydro with mechanical loader valves. Ok, but you can’t feel very well what the hydros are doing. Then the CAT 226D which has all the feed back of a video game. Then throw in a slightly wonky joystick potentiometer for some extra irritation.
Edited by Gearclash 3/6/2021 12:15
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Madison Co. Virginia | Gearclash - 3/6/2021 13:14
I spent a lot of time on the Case 1835B which has mechanical swash plate control and mechanical loader control. That has ruined me for anything else.
I didn't realize any skid loaders used mechanical swash plate control! It would be interesting to drive one sometime and see what it's like. I'll keep an eye out for a 1835b, and see if I can beg a test drive. |
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Madison Co. Virginia | dave morgan - 3/6/2021 13:14
1.Some will counter rotate
2.The right side goes forward, left is still, so turns to the left
Some will counter rotate, but not all?!? I figured that rotating in place was critical for any skid loader.
This is why I don't have any temptation to learn ISO controls. Pure logic says that one stick should control one hydrostat, and the other stick controls the other hydrostat. There shouldn't be any complicated linkage or electronics between the controls and the hydrostats to make them more "intuitive." Just connect them in the classic H-pattern, and let the human do any modulating between the two sides. |
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Black Hawk County, IA | Started in 78 with Mitey Mac T handles. Wrists were sore a lot. Then levers and foot controls direct to the valves. Then ISO. I hate the H controls. While the levers and pedal might be a little more precise, I’d take ISO all day every day and twice on Sunday. Can go down the road with one hand. J |
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Sioux County, NWIA | My guess is the first time you drive an 1835 or 1835B you will hate it, they are extremely responsive. They will do exactly what you tell it to, instantly. Once you get used to it, you will realize you can feel exactly how much pressure you are putting into turning the wheels because the swash plates push back on you depending on the pressure being generated by the pistons. |
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Central, IA | Iso for sure. It is different, but you’ll get used to it.
My dealers suggestion to my help was to sit on there right hand and just drive it for about 10 minutes. Then switch and just run the loader.
Driving with one joystick and a foot throttle is amazing. |
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ontario | Not much of a skidsteer operator, only used them here and there, I used a cat with iso and now use a kubota at work with foot pedals, I hate the pedals. Seems like a horrible way to try and run a loader. Try not to use it because the pedals just are dificult for me to feather |
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| Seems like the younger operators prefer ISO while some old guys like me have trouble getting used to it. |
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Skid steer controls, from levers and pedals to ISO or H pattern
