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Soybean Row Spacing
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MNRyeGrower
Posted 2/23/2009 22:21 (#620509)
Subject: Soybean Row Spacing


Central MN
Most likely a topic that re-occurs constantly but I am having a tough time understanding why 6" spacing is not used and 12 or 18 or more is used. Is it a simple matter of having a planter that can be used for more than one crop or is there an optimum spacing in regards to yeild and/or effeciency?

Wheel tracks maybe?
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Wayne NC IL
Posted 2/24/2009 00:36 (#620697 - in reply to #620509)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


Soybeans do well in a lot of different row widths. They probably do best in 15 inch rows planted with a planter. Soybeans do not do as well if planted with a drill. Drills do no maintain the accurate depth of a planter and most do not singulate seeds as well. All soybeans planted with a planter seem to do well. I plant with a 30 inch planter. My farm is small and I can not justify a second planter for soybeans. Many years 30 inch soybeans will out yield the ultra narrow rows but over a long period of years, I would expect the narrow rows to yield a bushel or two more.
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Ed Winkle
Posted 2/24/2009 07:51 (#620835 - in reply to #620509)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


Martinsville, Ohio
I think the issue is little is made for those widths. You would have to make your own?

Ed
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Jim
Posted 2/24/2009 11:23 (#621053 - in reply to #620509)
Subject: RE: Soybean Row Spacing - the planting spectrum (pic from MN)


Driftless SW Wisconsin

I think of a spectrum of grass seed to corn:

How do you plant grass seed to fill in a bare spot in the yard? Basically just broadcast a handfull of seed out by hand or with a spinner spreader, rake it in, water it and it will grow and fill in the spot.

On the other hand you would never plant corn like that - for corn you want to singulate each seed, space them properly from each other, get each seed to proper depth and cover it with good seed to soil contact. If you plant it like the grass seed above either it will not grow or will just be like a weed.

Grass seed COULD be singulated and planted like corn and it would be a better stand but it is not economical to do so at grass seed prices.

So you can think of a "spectrum" planting with say grass seed on one end and corn on the other.

Wheat is closer to the grass seed end of this spectrum, usually planted by a drill which more or less has a controlled dump of seed behind a how or disk which uually doesn't have the precision of a corn planter. Corn on the other hand is almost always planted by a more precision type planter to control seed spacing depth and slot closure. In fact in German the word for a row crop planter is "einzelkornmaschinen' (sp?) as I translate it "single seed [corn] machine". Apologies to any posters from Germany on my spelling.

So if we think of wheat at one ond of the spectrum and corn at the other, soybeans are maybe halfway in between the two ends.

Beans CAN be and are planted with a drill at times in a controlled "dump" by a seed cup in rows 6" to 10" apart. This usually requires a population of about 200,000 seeds per acre (JD used to recaommend 225k with the 750 drill) to get a decent stand.

Beans CAN also be planted with a corn planter at 130,000-150,000 seeds per acre with a corn planter.

With some variations for geographic location, variety and disease factors (some diseases such as white mold are much more common in the drilled narrow rows), both of these will yield about the same.

So then some other factors entering the decision on which way to plant soybeans are which machine do you have, how many acres do you want to plant (planters can often be wider than drills), what is the relative cost of the seed (maybe 2/3 a bag of seed difference per acre for little or no yield difference), do you need to be running both a drill and plnter att he same time, etc, etc.

So the discussion about bean row spacing, planter vs drill, can go on indefinitely because there is no one answer. Beans are about in the middle of the grass to corn spectrum.

Currently for many folks, operations and locations, due to the cost of bean seed there is a trend and financial advantage to treating beans more like corn.

At yesterday's strip till meeting in N IA there were at least 2 presenters showing pictures of 30" strip tilled beans into corn stalks. As I recall they both said there was little or no yield difference between the strip tilled 30" beans and beans grown in other more conventional local methods.

This is particularly attractive in northern areas where it is felt that beans into corn "requires" some tillage. But that is another topic....

I'll add an older picture of 30" beans spring strip tilled into 30" corn stalks in MN.

Jim at Dawn

Sorry about the hat - this picture is about 5 years old!



Edited by Jim 2/24/2009 11:30




(DawnStriptillBeansOnCorn062304_DCP2142_72.jpg)



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Attachments DawnStriptillBeansOnCorn062304_DCP2142_72.jpg (75KB - 218 downloads)
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MNRyeGrower
Posted 2/24/2009 13:00 (#621120 - in reply to #621053)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


Central MN
Thanks for the comments. Sooo much to consider and yet, like everything it seems, "it all depends".

Drilling vs singulated seed placement aside, I guess I was thinking more from a soil and sunlight aspect. wouldn't it theoretically be best if each seed were placed an equal distance from all others in all directions? ie perfect checkerboard pattern? With that idea in mind, it seems logical that the more narrow the rows and wider the seed spacing, the better.

Forgive me if I am WAY WAY off. sometimes farmboy logic is not always how it really works in real life.
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Jeffery
Posted 2/24/2009 13:13 (#621133 - in reply to #621120)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


That has always been my thought as well. You are always a sep ahead of the curve when drilling narrow rows in that aspect.
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Gerald J.
Posted 2/24/2009 16:56 (#621298 - in reply to #621133)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing



But even at 5" row spacing, 150,000 beans to the acre puts them only 1.76 to the foot. close to evenly spaced in two directions. 6.8" apart.

Next problem. If the ground crusts from a rain after planting will beans 6.8" apart be strong enough to break that crust or will it take beans under 1.38 inches apart (ala 30" rows) to work together to crack that crust?

Gerald J.
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Jeffery
Posted 2/24/2009 19:23 (#621403 - in reply to #621298)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


True, but we're talking perfect stand conditions here, I seriously doubt anyone is going to plant 150,000 in 5 inch rows. Yes, they would have a harder time in a crusting situation. You are talking seed with a 70-85% typical germination too, the dead beans get spaced just like the live ones.
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Gerald J.
Posted 2/25/2009 00:14 (#621856 - in reply to #621403)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing



70% germ? I was displeased with asack rating of 85% last year, I'm accustomed to seeing 95% on the tags.

Still, even with 70% germ, 150K from the drill leaves 105K plants which Pelle Pedersen at ISU says is plenty.

Gerald J.
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Ed Winkle
Posted 2/25/2009 05:52 (#621937 - in reply to #621120)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


Martinsville, Ohio
Back to my point, how are you going to get those row widths and what is it going to cost financially?

Ed
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Mlebrun
Posted 2/25/2009 10:02 (#622208 - in reply to #620509)
Subject: RE: Soybean Row Spacing


SW MN and Gold Canyon AZ
University of Mn has been doing narrow row vs 30 inch row for years. (maybe 30 ?) Anyway I have yet to see the 30's beat narrow in their trials.
My own studies mirror their results. I have seen atleast 3 bu advantage over the years.
I find it hard to believe when farmers tell me there is no difference. There is to much SOLID PROOF ,IN MULTIPLE YEARS to make me believe otherwise.
The very foundation to higher yeilds IS narrow rows.Every article you read on getting higher yields has narrow rows as one of the top priorities.
I think the 6 and 7 inch rows got started becausefarmers had more small grains years ago, and using the drills for both beans and small grains was common. Now most have gone away from the drills and gone 15inch planters for better emergence and lower seed costs. There is NO doubt in my mind whatsoever that farmers CAN pay for narrow row planters with the extra yield gain especially up here in the northern corn belt.
White mold is pretty much a non-issue, selecting the correct variety pretty much keeps it at bay and lowering seed pops down to 145000 in 15 inch rows helps also. If you plant the wrong variety and white mold hits the 30 inch will also get it almost as bad as the narrow row.
Having raised both 30 and 15 and 10 inch rows I can tell you for certain combining is much easier with narrow rows, less shatter also.
Narrow rows have a HUGE advantage when planting late.
The only time I suggest 30 inch rows is under severe IDC,high salt conditions.
I will bet on 15 inch rows beating 30 inch rows 99% of the time in the northern corn belt. There is WAY to much evidence to think otherwise.

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MNRyeGrower
Posted 2/25/2009 14:25 (#622481 - in reply to #622208)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


Central MN
Thanks for all the imput. Some really good arguements on either side. I realize everyones situation is different so certainly did not expect a "You need to do this" answer and found the info posted by everyone interesting and helpfull.

I have a "new to me" drill that has depth bands on 12 inches. I believe I will leave it set that way and see how it works out. I had not thought of it but I suppose going to really narrow with a drill is pretty much impossible to bring the drop rate down that low. To go to a 5 inch row as suggested by one poster would require seeds spread very far apart, something I don't think you can do with a drill.
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Mlebrun
Posted 2/25/2009 18:10 (#622653 - in reply to #622481)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


SW MN and Gold Canyon AZ
I drilled for years with a 10 inch 5400 Int drill. Cut pops down to 150000 towards the end.
Key to drilling is not to get them to deep and have a firm seed bed not fluffy. Keep the field cultivator on the shallower side.
Varieties now days have much better emergence scores than years ago. Longer hypocotyles help.
Having a drag behind the drill is key. Allows shallower settings on the drill and better coverage of the seed.
Seed spacing within the row in narrow rows have little to do with yield unless you get huge gaps. But even if you miss one bean in a row you have others in the rows 10 inch away to compensate.
You actually only need about 50000 plants per acre to get full ground coverage as beans will branch big time.
But for best results narrow rows ( under 15 inch ) will canopy much quicker than 30 inch.
If you think of the bean plant as a solar collector, 10 to 15 days earlier shading of the ground gives you more total sunlight collected and as a bonus keeps soil moisture up and the evaporation down keeping the canopy cooler thus cutting down on pod abortion.
Quicker canopy results in less weed escapes and weed germination.
Narrow rows pod higher also allowing better cutting.
In hail situations 30 inch rows tend to fall into the middle of the row thus making the branches harder to pickup with the combine. Drill rows tend to hold each other up thus allowing less header loss.
I could go on and on with the benefits of narrow row beans after raising them for 25 plus years and many different experiences and situations. I will never go to 30 inch rows period.....
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farmhowe
Posted 2/26/2009 13:32 (#623789 - in reply to #620509)
Subject: RE: Soybean Row Spacing


I am in central Illinois, this will be the third year we have been on 19" beans. We used to use a 750 Deere drill on 7.5" spacing. My grandfather and uncle still use the 7.5" and 30" spacing and my best friends dad uses 15". Over the past two years we have consistently beat their yields by a minimum of 2 bushels to the acre. We are planting a population of 165000. The drilled beans are still on 190000-200000. I believe the 15" are in the 160000-170000 range depending on soil type. Another farmer in the area is planting as low as 125000 on good ground and says he is having good results. He is on 15" rows. The reason we are using the 19" rows is that we are still on 38" corn rows and purchased a kinze interplanter. We have very good luck on the wide rows and wanted a faster way to plant beans is why we chose to go to the 19" spacing for beans. As far as all of our records show, the 19" row seems to be working out very well.
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Buckheart
Posted 1/8/2014 11:29 (#3586185 - in reply to #620509)
Subject: Re: Soybean Row Spacing


west central IL
Maybe its just the soil is better over in Duncan Mills than it is in Liverpool?
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