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Cat 85D
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Headliner13
Posted 10/22/2006 11:36 (#54157)
Subject: Cat 85D


Decatur, Illinois
Looking at an 85D as a primary tillage tractor. What if any are the downfalls to these tractors. Basically, wanting a smoother ride and less compaction than what my wheeled tractor is giving me.
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plowboy
Posted 10/22/2006 16:29 (#54218 - in reply to #54157)
Subject: RE: Cat 85D



Brazilton KS

They are definately good tractors.  You will either love belts or hate them, I think it must depend on how you were brought up or genetics or something unpredictible like that. 

 

The 'better ride' part is 100% dependant on the conditions you are operating in.   Tracks can be 100% better then tires or 50% worse in different situations.   

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PinkPanther
Posted 10/22/2006 21:46 (#54316 - in reply to #54218)
Subject: Plowboy please elaborate


Ontario
"The 'better ride' part is 100% dependant on the conditions you are operating in. Tracks can be 100% better then tires or 50% worse in different situations. "

How terrain can be better or worse for comfort? I thought rough was rough??? On headlands when chiselplowing, now that can be rough. Is roading a tracked machine what you are eluding to?

Kinda puzzled.
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dave morgan
Posted 10/22/2006 22:19 (#54331 - in reply to #54316)
Subject: RE: Plowboy please elaborate


Somerville, Indiana
every obstacle that sticks up makes a tracked machine ride rough, as in driving over a ridge...every obstacle that is a depression, you don't even notice it, as in a narrow channel.

Driving over a 12 inch hickory tree will get the full effects of not riding good.

Driving over a dead furrow will get the full effects of riding good.
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DG N. AL
Posted 10/22/2006 22:24 (#54335 - in reply to #54316)
Subject: Not Plowboy but.......



Hillsboro, AL

Since I own a tracked tractor I guess I can answer.....

Tracks do not like any situation where you have to run over any thing the raise above the surface.   Tracks are like a bull dozer in that they have the teeter totter effect.  The under carriage is ridged (straight).  If you go up a rise then it starts to fall off on the other side, the tracks do not start down until 50% of the vehicle weight crosses the peak of the rise.  Then the teeter totter flips and the tracks slam down on the other side.  Terraces are terrible on tracks.  Now  a depression is just the opposite.  Tracks never fall in the low place.  They just go right over it.  If the ground is moist and has some "give" to it track ride very well.  But in drought when the ground is very hard, tracks can have a lot of "vibration".

You can turn and run perpendicular to the rows with a track tractor and it can be as smooth as glass and the wheeled implement behind you will be being beat to death.  But lay a 4 x 4 down and run over it and tracks will throw you thru the glass.

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Ed Boysun
Posted 10/22/2006 22:49 (#54344 - in reply to #54335)
Subject: RE: Not Plowboy but.......



Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning.
Hit that 4x4 at just a bit of an angle and you'll hardly know it is there. Hit it straight on and you'll know it. Hit it going faster yet and it is even more noticeable.
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Skylane
Posted 10/23/2006 07:15 (#54395 - in reply to #54157)
Subject: RE: Cat 85D


Illinois-Ontario
I have run cats for around 15 years and have had an 85D. I live in the Midwest corn belt and find that 99% of the time in the field, the Cat will ride better than a wheeled tractor, going through waterways are the exception. For our use the only time tracks don't perform as well as wheels are when the ground is real wet on top, this will cause slip, if conditions are like that, we should not be out there anyway. If you want a tractor that even rides better get an MT, exceptional ride.
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plowboy
Posted 10/23/2006 09:27 (#54422 - in reply to #54316)
Subject: RE: Plowboy please elaborate



Brazilton KS

The others have pointed out one thing.   Another which we have found is certain situations where the ground is worked up very loose.   I hate running the Cat's on fields which have been disked deep.  All day long you are climbing up on top of the loose dirt.  You climb up until you get more weight up then the soft surface can support, then you sink back in again and the process starts over.   It's like being in a boat on a rough lake.   The same conditions in our 4wd are usually reasonably smooth, although I have seen occasions where they behave similarly.  Add slight ridges from the disk makes it even worse.    The best answer is to not use the stinking disk. 

On the other hand, go into a field with old rows, or a field which has been chisel plowed without a harrow, or any similar corrogated surface and the tracks can run at any angle other then a very shallow one and you won't even notice them.  You will be able to find a "bad" angle if you try, but it is fairly specific...90 degrees to the rows is fine, somewhere around 5 degrees  probably not..   A tire tractor couldn't even think about running 7 mph at 90 degrees to old corn rows. 

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John Burns
Posted 10/23/2006 09:39 (#54424 - in reply to #54335)
Subject: RE: Not Plowboy but.......



Pittsburg, Kansas

The one place where I have found that a depression will cause a problem is if a wash is in enough of a Vee that the front roller hits the other side like it was a raised place. Running the grain buggy over a wash comes to mind. If the wash is pretty flat no problem but if it is vee'd down look out. Going at an angle helps but sometimes not possible with grain buggy while under combine.

Like Don said, in hard ground conditions sometimes they can vibrate quite a bit.

Tracks, like about everything, have tradeoff's. Some guys like them, some don't. We run 3 track tractors (JD8300T, JD9400T and CH45) and several tire and my operators have pretty well indicated to me at trade time it wouldn't hurt their feelings any if the track machines left before the the tire machines. They all seem to like the CH45 on the grain buggy - that is the main exception.

It is definitely an operator preference thing because i don't care much for the tracks on the grain buggy and everybody else does yet I kind of like the track machines in the field and everybody else would just as soon hook up the tire machines. Best riding/operating/pulling machine we have is the JD9400 with tripple 18.4x46's. Used to have power hop problems till we finally got it weighted down enough. I don't personally see where the 9400T has anything over it at least for what we use them for.

Everybody hates them going down the road - and we have a lot of roading to do. In our area we farm with big tractors in small fields because our window of opportunity is often short. We justify the big tractors by having three distinct seasons when we can run them. This makes for a lot of changing fields and we can be on the road sometimes three or more times per day. I think that is one of the main reasons the tracks are not very popular in our operation.

They ride the very best they ever will when they are brand new and go downhill from there. On a new tractor the rubber has not work hardened so is softer and the lugh are deeper. We had two CH45's for a while that were identical except the one had 32" belts at 80% and the other had 24" belts at 20%. You would have thought they were different tractors. The one with the worn out lugs would actually vibrate enough on gravel washboards it would vibrate sideways towards the ditch when the road was sloped quite a bit. Don't underestimate how much poorer the ride on a track machine is when the lugs get about half worn out. Sure seems hard on the cabs going down the road.

This is the stuff the guys of the track religion fail to mention. They are good tractors and pull really well going straight and in a lot of conditions ride very well but they do have some disadvantages.

John 

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kinzepower
Posted 10/23/2006 11:20 (#54449 - in reply to #54157)
Subject: Re: Cat 85D


SW Ontario
What tires do you have on your present machine?
Get some big-ass Michelin radials on it and both your problems will probably disappear.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m84/sueperdave/075_75.jpg


This tractor is not as good a ride in some cases as a track machine but with only 6-7psi in those tires, it is really comfortable with no compaction


Edited by kinzepower 10/23/2006 11:23
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Headliner13
Posted 10/23/2006 13:19 (#54471 - in reply to #54449)
Subject: Re: Cat 85D


Decatur, Illinois
Are those the XM 108's? I have heard they are unavailable to order as i priced a set for my 9250
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Ed Boysun
Posted 10/23/2006 13:34 (#54473 - in reply to #54424)
Subject: If you judge . . .



Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning.

ride quality of the Cat large frame and MT series track tractor by comparing them to what JD has marketed, you will come up with an inaccurate picture.

Lots of places to soak up shocks in the suspension of my 75 and MT that just flat don't exist on the green track machines.

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kinzepower
Posted 10/23/2006 16:13 (#54503 - in reply to #54471)
Subject: Re: Cat 85D


SW Ontario
I think they are XM 28's, 680/65r32's I think.
These were my first Michelins, every tractor, and combine, I have has them now.
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DG N. AL
Posted 10/23/2006 21:05 (#54567 - in reply to #54424)
Subject: Roading is not that bad on an MT



Hillsboro, AL
Unless the pavement is very bad.  The MT has some suspension in the boggies.  That helps the ride greatly when roading.
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John Burns
Posted 10/23/2006 22:41 (#54619 - in reply to #54473)
Subject: RE: If you judge . . .



Pittsburg, Kansas

I would not argue with you about the new Challengers riding better although I have never driven one. It looks like they ought to. If I ever own another big horsepower Challenger it would be the new 4wd. I just haven't seen any great big benefits to tracks in OUR operation. The only reason we own three of them is at the time of purchase we bought them right. Two were used and the other a 200 hr 3 year old demonstrator.

John



Edited by John Burns 10/23/2006 22:42
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