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| These are similar tractors.. The 9690 would be a little later model and year built with exterior changes which is obvious.
Is there any changes to the cab interior design, operation controls etc. ?
Did the Agco Allis 9690 have options of Deutz or Cummins engine??
Is the transmission and hydraulics in Agco 9690 still the same White rearend design or has it been changed?
Would one be easier to get parts for than the other?
I kinda like the appearance of the Deutz 9190 better than Agco 9690 and leaning towards the Deutz at this moment unless there is some features on the 9690 that I should take into consideration.
Which would be best tractor to invest in?
Color preference survey Deutz green or Deutz red orange?
Note: I despised the Deutz green years and years ago but has grown on me now.
Edited by SweetHomeAlabama 4/28/2018 22:51
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thumb of mi | 9690 has a 18 speed power shift which is far superior to the 9190. The engine is about the same. Rear end is similar |
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| SweetHomeAlabama - 4/28/2018 22:23 These are similar tractors.. The 9690 would be a little later model and year built with exterior changes which is obvious. Is there any changes to the cab interior design, operation controls etc. ? Did the Agco Allis 9690 have options of Deutz or Cummins engine?? Is the transmission and hydraulics in Agco 9690 still the same White rearend design or has it been changed? Would one be easier to get parts for than the other? I kinda like the appearance of the Deutz 9190 better than Agco 9690 and leaning towards the Deutz at this moment unless there is some features on the 9690 that I should take into consideration. Which would be best tractor to invest in?
The cab itself is similar but the controls are a little different.
The rearend and hyd system on the 9690 is the same as the 9190. The transmission in the 9690 is a full powershift, 18 F and 9 R. That alone could be a major selling point depending what it will be used for.
Engine is the same air cooled Deutz in both the 9190 and 9690 as well. The 9695 Agco Allis was the same tractor with a Detroit Diesel engine.
The 9190 will be less prone to electrical problems.
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Pierce county WI | I thought those agco allis' had a Detroit diesel series 40? Which is pretty much an IH dt 466. |
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| I heard that some Agco Allis tractors had a 8.3L Cummins engine in them and Deutz Allis had 9.6L Deutz.Is this true or false?
Edited by SweetHomeAlabama 4/28/2018 23:19
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northwest Missouri | Agco white of those years have 8.3 Cummins and a 18spd powershift |
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| SweetHomeAlabama - 4/28/2018 23:05 I heard that some Agco Allis tractors had a 8.3L Cummins engine in them. Is this true or false?
To my knowledge that is false.
For a few years they were building Agco Allis tractors with both Deutz engines and Detroit Diesel engines.
If you want a Cummins you need to buy an Agco White. They look better too :-)
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| I really like the Deutz engine in my tractor, well pleased with them, much better than the Deere engine in my other tractors.
Is there a significant design difference other than appearance between the Agco White and Agco Allis?
Tractor would be used to do some row crop tillage and work to clean up land that has been stumped with excavator doing heavy pulling of ripper, breaking disk, do all , dirt pan etc.
Need a cheap horsepower tractor to be occasionally used that is dependable, trouble free , less hassle to work on ( little or none electrical computer components to deal with) when mechanical problems happen
P.S. I like your Bible scripture of Hebrews
Edited by SweetHomeAlabama 4/29/2018 00:40
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Eastern North Carolina | 9695 had the IH/Navistar DT530, sold through Detroit Diesel as the series 40.
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| 9630-9650-9670-9690 were all DEUTZ powered. Think of the zero on the end as meaning no radiator. 9635-9655-9675-9695-9815 were all Detroit series 40. It is really a Navistar DT466 or DT530 engine. That engine is from the 1990's and the same as an IH truck engine and in no way is it the same as a 1066-1466 tractor engine. |
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NC KS | I think the cab is slightly different but not much. I have a 9670 2wd and a White 6175 front wheel assist. You already know about the Duetz which is very reliable and good power and fuel economy. The 18 speed powershift is very nice to drive and shift. It will leave you setting over the course of the years and the cause will be electrical. Usually the fixes are reasonable and can be done with minimal talent. If something major happens, transmission is very expensive to fix as in close to value of the tractor just like a lot of tractors of every color of that age. You would want to make sure Park lock works and never engage it unless foot is on the brake (tractor is firmly stopped). If tractor is rolling while park lock is engaged, you just lost the park lock feature
When I was at the dealership, it seemed like we worked on a lot of the older 3 speed transmissions like in the 9190 but that might be related to the number of them out there. It is all mechanical and parts were available at that time. |
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| SweetHomeAlabama - 4/28/2018 23:43 Is there a significant design difference other than appearance between the Agco White and Agco Allis?
If you're comparing the same age tractors, the only significant difference between the Agco White and Agco Allis tractors is the engine/radiator setup.
Think of it this way, from 1989 - 1990 Deutz Allis was selling White tractors with their own Deutz air cooled engine under the hood.
From 1991 - 1998 AGCO was selling AGCO Allis tractors that were AGCO White tractors painted orange with either a Deutz air cooled engine or a Detroit Diesel engine under the hood.
After 1998 both Agco Allis and Agco White tractors were rebranded Massey Ferguson's painted either orange or silver.
For a few years in the mid 90's AGCO sold the Massey Ferguson 9240 in Europe, that tractor was a 6215 White painted red with a MF decal on it. Far as I know that is the only MF tractor that was the same as the Agco Whites/Allis tractors.
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| How is the name Detroit in the picture ? Detroit and Navistar (International) were two completely separate engine designs by different companies aren't they? |
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Ludington/Manistee MI area | I bleed orange but my advise is either go older, newer, or a different color. Here no one could keep them motors together. I bet an 8400 Deere or 8870 NH would be cheaper in the long run. |
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NC KS | Detroit bought the IH/Navistar 466/530 engine and called it a Detroit. It was mechanically injected in the 9675, 9695 and 9815. The next series, 9765, 9775, etc were electrically injected with Powerstroke fuel system. |
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| Seems the syncro partial power shift in Deutz Allis may be more reliable and less expensive to repair. I'm thinking in relation to to the 1970 & 80 years of the 40, 50, 55 series John Deere synced quad range vs the power shift. Quad range was more reliable dependable work horse transmission
The Agco Allis power shift would be pleasurable to operate and shift on go but not as bullet proof as the Deutz Allis syncro partial power shift and more likely to go down than the older Deutz-Allis |
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"From 1991 - 1998 AGCO was selling AGCO Allis tractors that were AGCO White tractors painted orange with either a Deutz air cooled engine or a Detroit Diesel engine under the hood."
Was the power shift transmission standard during these years or did they offer options in transmissions?
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| Clarify please with specifics to the tractor and drive tran components.
My experience with Deutz engines has been great really like em they have been dependable smooth running fuel efficient engine.
Why do you suggest a 8400 Deere? |
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Ontario's West Coast , Huron County | at some time there was a 6144 tractor offered with a quad shift trans . 6145 was the same tractor with an 18 speed power shift . Not sure if any other models offered the quad shift or not . |
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Ludington/Manistee MI area | My experience with the air cooled motor has been very bad. We had one in a combine and fought with it the whole time. Another uncle had a 100 06 and it has motor issues as well. Neighbor had a DX and that had issues as well.
Another option would be an Allis 8070 with a blown motor then give it a Cummins transplant.
After what I’ve seen I’d have projectile diarrhea from the stress of the pending failure.
Edited by Tomcat 4/29/2018 09:01
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| 6124 and 6125. Would have been pretty much the same as the 44 & 45 but obviously smaller hp and did not have the intercooler. |
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NW KS/ SC ID | SweetHomeAlabama - 4/29/2018 07:49
Clarify please with specifics to the tractor and drive tran components.
My experience with Deutz engines has been great really like em they have been dependable smooth running fuel efficient engine.
Why do you suggest a 8400 Deere?
I have a Deutz in a R60 and get along great with it, buddy has one in a R70, also great, and we know some cowboys with a well abused DX that the engine still runs great even though the tranny is down to about 2 or 3 gears and has been parked since.
I was talking to a custom cutter yesterday that is not known for maintaining things perfectly, he runs Deere currently, but ran Gleaner for years, and had many Deutz powered 60s,70s, 62s and 72s and he said other than changing the fan yearly and blowing out daily they did nothing but change oil and filters and run them. Great power and fuel economy, so he said he liked them alot.
So I would say the issues Tomcat had are not common. |
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| SweetHomeAlabama - 4/29/2018 08:41 "From 1991 - 1998 AGCO was selling AGCO Allis tractors that were AGCO White tractors painted orange with either a Deutz air cooled engine or a Detroit Diesel engine under the hood." Was the power shift transmission standard during these years or did they offer options in transmissions?
There wasn't an option for the transmission per say. The model number was specific to a transmission and engine package, and paint color too.
Agco White 6125, 6145, 6175, 6195 and 6215 were all Cummins engine, full power shift tractors built with the old Charles City, IA designed White rearend and hyd system.
Agco Allis 9630, 9650, 9670, 9690 were all Deutz engine, full power shift tractors built by White (owned by AGCO) with the old Charles City, IA designed White rearend and hyd system.
Agco Allis 9635, 9655, 9675, 9695, 9815 were all Detroit Diesel engines, full power shift tractors built by White (owned by AGCO) with the old Charles City, IA designed White rearend and hyd system.
The Agco White 6124 and 6144 were Cummins engine, partial powershift (32 spd F&R) tractors. The rearend, transmission and hyd system are all Massey Ferguson. That 32 spd transmission is known as "Dyna Shift" to Massey Ferguson people.
The Agco Allis 9435 and 9455 were Detroit Diesel engines, partial powershift (32 spd F&R) tractors. The rearend, transmission and hyd system are all Massey Ferguson. That 32 spd transmission is known as "Dyna Shift" to Massey Ferguson people.
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ND | Interesting thread, maybe has something to do with the dealer Techs? Around us, the dealers are all new & familiarity with past AGCO Allis or White would be sketchy at best. Maybe that's why there are problems. IH & Deere have been here in the same locations for 65 yrs plus. Best to have some older techs or service managers that remember the 2-135, 4-210, 8030 or a 7060, sometimes the new dealers have thrown out the service books or retired the older personal. |
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| Thanks Kooiker for taking time to clarify the tractor specifics very informative. You would be a good Ag Engineering Farm Machinery professor. Seems you have great interest/ passion for the Ag machinery industry as I have had back through the years.
What make and model tractor is your favorite that are you most fond of?
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| SweetHomeAlabama - 4/29/2018 13:41 Thanks Kooiker for taking time to clarify the tractor specifics very informative. You would be a good Ag Engineering Farm Machinery professor. Seems you have great interest/ passion for the Ag machinery industry as I have had back through the years. What make and model tractor is your favorite that are you most fond of?
I don't know about that. I really don't like dealing with people that much.
I've been around Oliver and White tractors since I was a little kid. We have a Series III 2-155 White that I'm pretty fond of.
I'd really like to have a 6195 or 6215 but I don't know what we would do with it and they're a little to expensive to just have one sitting around. They don't really have enough hyd capacity to fit what we would need it to do.
If you like AGCO tractor history (Allis, Deutz, White, MF, etc) there is a book called "The Proud Heritage of AGCO Tractors" that is a neat book with lots of pictures.
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NW KS/ SC ID | Varment - 4/29/2018 07:58
at some time there was a 6144 tractor offered with a quad shift trans . 6145 was the same tractor with an 18 speed power shift . Not sure if any other models offered the quad shift or not .
The way it was explained to me by a White dealer the ones that ended in 4 (6144, 6124, etc. ) were silver Cummins powered Masseys, and the ones that ended in 5 (6125, 6145, etc) were true White's. |
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Deutz Allis 9190 vs Agco Allis 9690
