Years ago when we had cows, I got tired of dinking around trying to keep the tank from freezing up, or chopping ice.  We had a 100-130 gallon galvanized tank with 4x4 posts and a frame around the tank. I took all the sawdust/wood chips out and got 2 long strips of heat tape. I wrapped the heat tapes around the outside of the tank using duct tape to hold the tape on the side of the tank I brought the electrical plugs so they were accessable and only visible from outside the corral.

I then refilled the space (4-5 inches) carefully with the sawdust/woodchips and put a plywood top on the tank nailed down well to the wood frame on the outside, cut out the inside to the inside edge of the tank.

Worked fantastic, Cows always had access to warm water. Wasn't "hot" just warm so I could put my hand in the water in the worst cold and not be cold.  Cows Loved it, they did MUCH better throughout the winter having access to warm water. Didn't matter if the Temps got to 20 below Zero, water was warm enough to drink !

My "homemade" water heater worked for over 10 years and never ONCE had any issue about "fire" etc. There were thermostats on the 2 heat tapes.

Downside, need electricity and electricity did get expensive.  Only physical issue was I leased the corral to a guy few years ago to winter his herd, and wanted to "clean out the corral"..  Despite specific directions, "Do not run into the Water tank with the tractor loader", sure enough he rammed in to the tank a couple of times and screwed the whole thing up.  (grrrr)

He never believed Cattle needed access to warm water in the winter, but he did say his cattle "seemed to do better in your corral" during the winters. 

Balerman, It would really help in replies if there was some indication of where you are located! Replies might be quite different if you are in ND ot TX! Why is it that folks won't even put a state in their profile?

Having said that, I also like the concrete type heated waterers. I was just outside a few hours ago cleaning my Peterson out as I do every couple weeks. I took a picture of some calves at it I'll add below.

The Peterson (made in IA) seems to be similar to the Cancrete (made in Canada and NE) except the newer Petersens have a black poly top rather than the stainless sheetmetal.

I think either will work well - but your satisfaction with any of the heated waterers is completely dependent on the quality of the site prep work, based on what I have seen.

I would strongly recommend you pour a concret pad around the water site with a raised section extending out about a foot all the way around the waterer to keep them from backing up to it and fouling the water. Cattle will put their front legs on a 4" step but not their hind legs. Don't ask me why....

Depending on where you are located and minimum temps over the winter determine the exent of the details on the heat end.

Here is a picture of the pad, the completed installation, and a photo from today. I put up a temporary divider because the weaned calves use one side and the cows and bulls the other side. (please excuse the wire etc! I'm going to put up a 1st class permanent divider some day - hope the WI PE board doesn't see this one!)

The Petersen works very well, when installed exactly as they suggest. This is in WI where we had close to -30 F a couple mornings last Jan. This unit has been completely ice and trouble free. Use a very good grade of Butyl flashing cement on the bottom. No bolts/studs etc required. this waterer weighs over 800 lb. Painted black that weight also operates as a heat sink. Uses much less electricity than you would think  even in super cold weather.

I am also convinced that keeping a supply of non frozen/warm clean drinking water is important to the cattle's health and ability to outwinter on their own.

Good luck.

Jim at Dawn

The bottom phot reminds me - whatever brand you buy, caulk around the door over the winter. If you keep cold air out the insulation and heat from the bottom of the water keeps everything like toast inside.

Put in an electrical shutoff somewhereoutside the watering area but easily accessible so you can cut the power when you drain it out. I can clean this thing out completely in about 2 minutes. Nice big plug on one side. top comes off easily and is sturdy. I did replace the Petersen brass ball float with a flat, pancake shaped styrofoam one from the valve people - still clears the heat element but gives quicker fill characteristic.

As you can also see in the photos, the 2x6 treated boards I put up initially around the waterer were totally inadequeate - replaced them with used steel guard rail. Should have done that right the first time. The water is a Petersen 34C by the way.

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You are welcome. The list price on the 34C is $650 or so but call them and maybe you can get a unit for less this time of year. That may not be too bad for a product that weighs 875 lb and has some engineering in it.

The thing about cattle I am finding is that there is a certain level of investment needed, whether you have 10 head or 100. you just have to look at it as a longer time payback. But the cattle having warm unfrozen water in the winter is something that will pay itself off maybe faster than you think. I think water is a big part of them maintaining condition as they eat better....just my non-cattle expert theory and observation.

I look at mine as saving me from putting up a shed and a lot of costs associated with that. As pointed out above look into an NRCS program if there is one in your area.

Whatever you do, especially in a waterer in WY, do it right the first time. Good luck.

Jim at Dawn 

Sweet setup Jim. thanks for the pics. 

What I described was the more "poorman's" version. The only advantage? is the setup I described could handle 7-8 full size cows at the same time. I had it setup with a underground water supply and float system to automatically refill the waterer.

You are absolutely correct about having a good supply of warm water for cows during the winter. The amount of water a cow consumes directly effects their digestive system, and being thirsty and having to drink ice cold water which cools down their insides doesn't help.   I equate it to myself, "if I were standing outside in the cold all the time,, and everytime I drank freezing cold water, would I drink all I should?"   Course cows aren't logical,, but their bodies still react the same when they drink a bunch of ice cold water.

Year's ago I read where a test was done on cold/frozen water vs: warm water for animals in the winter time. Feed conversion rates, weight gain/retention etc.. were lightyears apart between ice cold and luke warm water.

Thanks for the kind words, Mike.

Yours sounds like it will do the job. I wrestled wiht the idea of size. I discussed this with the folks at Petersen. Basically they are right. If you have a larger waterer (so 7-8 head can drink at one time) you really need a LOT of cattle to keep the water flowing or you need a large electric heater especially in the north.

The cattle have different patterns they use to make sure everyone gets enough water, depending on which pasture they are in and how far away from it they are. Sometimes they come all at once for water. At other times they come individually. Often two cows can use each side at the same time.

I'd estimate that this waterer uses about $8-10 worth of electricity a month in WI in the winter months. I have the switch on from about Nov 1 to April 1. Not a bad investment.

If you put your hand in the water in the winter it feels "luke warm". I think its about 50 deg F. The thermostat is adjustable. I think I'll stick a thermometer in it tomorrow and see what the water temp really is. Thanks for the info on feed and water temp. That sounds like it agrees with what I see.

Regards,

Jim at Dawn

Don't mean to rain on your 50* parade or anything, but after the first big gulp, the rest of the water will be tempered downward according to the temperature of the recharge water.  Unless you're using well water, directly from the well, your water will be closer to 35* - 38* I'm guessing as the number of cattle progesses through the cycle.  If your using municipal water it will be on the colder end, especially if it's lake or stream water sourced, but could possibly be on the warmer end if it's well water sourced.

And "end use" waterlines running below the frost line aren't always running in "warm" soil, they're just always in "above freezing" soil.  A lot of waterline is running in that transition area between the frost line and the deeper soil, which is of a more constant temp year around. 

If the truth were known, I'd imagine some of the waterlines installed by sometimes unscrupulous contractors aren't buried quite deep enough, but have sufficient water moving in them constantly to keep them from freezing.  But the water moving through them definitely doesn't get warmer as it passes through.

To put a finer point on the issue, they were 2 40-50 foot long tapes. (it's been a few years since I put them in)  and the tank is probably bigger than 130 gallons. 

I'm not sure who would be using an "unscrupulous contractor" as we dug our own water lines from the well to the corral and I know that line is 3 1/2 feet deep. (can't imagine paying a "contractor" of any sort to do something I'm perfectly capable of doing myself)

What I can say is we've had -30 degree weather here in past and never had the stock tank or supply lines freeze up. (I suppose if someone were real industrus they could build a small well insulated shed just outside the corral run in electricity, get an old water tank set at the lowest possible setting, and "warm up" the water before sending it the rest of the way to the watering tank)

Was below zero this morning when I got up, hight point of the day was 10 degrees and at 4:30 it was already 4 degrees F again and starting to snow again. 1-1 1/2 foot snow on the level, drifts,, up to 3+ feet. Pretty much our winter time conditions.

For us when the cows are carrying snow around on their backs that's good, if there's no snow on their backs they're struggling. Can't imagine anyone with cows having calves in this weather here. 

Thing to remember is that is HERE, my location and conditions.

Angus,

Thanks for your reply and comments. They got me thinking. I don't really know what the water inlet temp is nor do I really know how fast the waterer recovers temperature. So I did some checking this afternoon.

It was 12 deg F air temperature this afternoon when I did the check.  

I ran some water out of the frost free hydrant outside the waterer area into a plastic coffee can (have lots of those around). This is well water coming underground maybe 500 ft from the underground pressure tank on top of the well. I don't know how deep it is but it has never frozen and was put in by a very good contractor. The water temp is just as you pointed out: 38 deg F.

I then checked the temp of the water sitting in the waterer and was very surprised to find the water at almost 70 deg F! This is too high - like a cup of warm tea! It was more than luke warm. I was glad you got me to do this on a cold day - not something I was planning until I saw your post. Anyway, I adjusted the thermostat down to about 55-60 deg water temp. Thank you.

Then I shutoff the power at the box, drained the whole waterer thru the plug, let it fill again (with 38 deg water), turned the power back on and measured the water temp again.

Within less than a minute from turning the power on the water temp was near 60 deg.

I guess I am satisfied that, while cows can drink at an amazing rate, they don't empty the whole 13 gal and start with cold as I did. With the 1000 watt element it seems to recover fast enough that I don't think the cows ever see water under maybe 45 or 50 degrees with the thermostat set at 60.

The reason is the way the heavily insulated cover (which extends down into the water) covers the heat element, valve, float, water entry point and thermostat the incoming cold water gets heated immediately since the Franklin valve drops the cold water right where the heater is, not anywhere the cows can drink it. This waterer also weighs over 800 lb and I think one of the benefits of a concrete waterer compared to lighter one is the mass tends to act like a heat sink and moderate water temp swings. Even though it has a 1000W heat element, that element doesnt need to run very much.

I took the cover off so you can see what I mean and took a photo which I'll add below.

General comment: I am not selling these nor do I have any reason to promote Petersen other than they work and work well. I like to share information on here about stuff that works, because many times you buy things like this that are major purchases and tough to change once they're installed and they DON'T work as you expect.

I have had several purchases based on recommendations here that have worked very well - Dutch suggested, based on his experience, the R-K service bodies out of TX for our trucks. He was right on - they are tough and we now own two of them. Even something simple like boots - someone here on NAT suggested "Muck Boots" which I had never heard of before. Well I have a lot of trouble finding a wet boot I like that is comfortable, you can wear for extended periods, get on and off my big feet and doesn't make your feet sweat unduly. I bought a pair and they are just what I have been looking for.  

So I'm not trying to argue with you about waterers, just sharing my experience which may save someone some time and trouble. There may be many others that work well. I am just sharing what I have seen with this one.

Thanks again for your reply - becauseof that I checked the water temp which I would not otherwise have done. I suggest to others that taking a thermometer to your waterer every once in a while may be a good idea. Just because it's not frozen doesn't mean its set right. jmho.

Jim at Dawn

Here's the photo of the Petersen with the top removed. I use the Franklin valve and flat float rather than the brass valve and ball float because this one has much better fill speed and characteristics. It may let you get by with a smaller waterer if it fills faster, esp in the summer.

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Jim, both you and 95h are using a lot more electricity than I care to.  And thanks for the temp testing to at least give a little credence to my thoughts.  At least you know now what your heater is doing and how fast it's heating your water.

All my waterers are using (recharging from) surface water supplies fed through underground lines.   It's colder water than you're using, but thankfully I'm also south of you too, so I don't feel too bad about the cattle drinking cold water. 

I don't think the perfect waterer has been invented yet -- cheap, effective, & reliable, what am I missing?

I've converted over to all energy free waterers.  The ones behind ponds all have overflow drains that use flowing water to keep them open, and there's no economically feasible way of bringing a steady supply of warm water to most of our fields as they are pretty fair distances from electric lines and I don't want to try and maintain LP burners at all of them (right now there's 9 of them).  The ones on rural water are using heat wells made from plastic barrels.  2 Cobetts, and 1 Ritchie Thrifty King. 

One of the waterers behind a small pond is one of the big construction tires, works pretty good, and by soaking up winter sun will basically clear itself of ice by miday even with no overflow water running -- unless there's been no cattle drinking out of it for several days and we have a brutally cold stretch of weather (0 and below = brutal for me but we do have it from time to time). 

The rest of the waterers are a split between Rubbermaid tanks and buried concrete freeze-proofs, all with overflow drains running.

One drawback to the black waterers we have here (cobetts, tire tank, rubbermaids) end up with what seems like scalding hot water in them in July & August for the first cow that comes to drink ... not so good when they really would be much better off with cooler water then.  But I also have seen them "spit/drool" lots of that hot water that time of year as well.  We generally don't mind allowing a small trickle of water to run through the overflows if the ponds aren't too low to allow it to try and offset this.

The Ritchie was originally installed by a Ritchie dealer and never did work right for the 10 years it was used.  As originally installed, it constantly froze up, a real PITA.   I started reworking the corral fences 2 years ago and moved/reinstalled the Ritchie in a way that it works much better now.  I put 2 - 30 gallon plastic barrels end to end vertically, below the frost line, under the waterer and used "isul tube" through the frost zone under the concrete to allow the warmer air to rise upward into the waterer from the "well".  I also  daylighted a drain out from the bottom of the heat well so that ground water wouldn't fill the "well" and eliminate the "air" (good thing a drain was there this year as we received right at 60" of precip for 2008).  The concrete pad also has 2" of pink styrofoam under it to help stop cold and frost from penetrating quite as deep.  Hopefully I can get a pic of this inserted here:

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Very nice picture. Thanks.

I think the key to success with that type of "energy free" waterer is having enough cattle using it to keep warmer (sub soil temp) ground water flowing.

Jim