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| five years ago I bought a case air seeder hoe drill. My dad was and is still against no-till but I have gone no-till anyway, this drill has been working great in the no-till fields but I noticed this year with the build up of crop residue it is becoming more difficult to get through the fields without plugging. I did a 160 acres of stubble back wheat and had quite the time with plugging. With that being said I believe it is time to move forward to a disk drill that will go through the extra crop residue. The problem I have been noticing with the neighbors in the dry years such as this year, they cant get the seed in the ground far enough to get a good stand of wheat. I, on the other hand, have a great stand and the wheat looked excellent going into the winter. All because I was able to get the seed in the ground to the moisture. I hope that in the not so distant future that my no-till practice will get beyond the stage that the ground is as hard as the road and become mellow enough to use any disk drill but until then, I feel I am going to face the same problem that others in the area are facing with the hard ground and plow again if I cant find a better drill than their Deere's. it seems they are just not heavy enough to get the seed in the ground. Any suggestions as to a great air seeder for no-till that will push the seed in the ground when it gets dry? we only got an inch of rain all last summer so when it came time to plant the wheat, all our ground was very hard. If it weren't for the plugging I would just keep the drills I have because I know they will go in the ground and get through the crust. I would also like it to hook up to the air cart I already have sense it is all but new.
Thank you all for your suggestions in advance.
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Southeast Washington | Wow that is a tough one and there is no right answer and all areas and rotations are different. If your crops are doing well then I would say hold off on going to a disk drill. If you have a hoe drill and neighbors have disk drills then I would suggest working together and maybe trading some acres to use the drills on each others property so you can see how it works on your land and your rotations to see if the disk drill would actually work better for you than your hoe drill.
We started with a disk drill and it worked good for us over conventional and the minimum till rotations we had done. We are now on our second hoe drill after the disk drill and they have taken us beyond what the disk drill would do for us. Not all areas are the same but don't think that the disk drill will automatically be a better system for you. Try working with your neighbors before committing to a different system. |
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| You are probably right sense they don't give this equipment away. Thank you for your advice. looking forward to another great year on the farm |
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Idaho | Glen what drill are you running now? |
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Southeast Washington | You're kind of at the crossroads for stubble management where the hoe drill likes short straw and the disk drill likes the long straw like from the stripper headers. Maybe reevaluate your residue management and rotations to fit your drill and of course get a disk drill in your fields to see how it will really work for you. Our eyes were opened when we ran both drills together in the same fields and how much different the crop was at harvest time. We did that for 4-5 years. If you like the looks of what your drill is doing then hang with it because your cost of running it should be a lot less than a disk drill over the years. It was for us anyway and having higher yields to boot was a nice benefit as well as better protein levels and other quality benefits.
We run a Case hoe drill now Starbuck. |
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Suver, Oregon | Can you run coulters in front of the shanks to help prevent plugging? |
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| I have been seriously considering that move, I'm sure with a little farmer ingenuity it is possible. More than likely will be cheaper than a new set of drills. |
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| A Haybuster 107 drill is simple, and will work for most applications. |
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nebraska | I rented a Crustbuster drill this fall to dormant seed some switch grass. The drill was built like a tank and had no trouble going into the ground. |
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SW ND | I would stick with the drill you have. I have both and they both have there place. Hoe drill works better in wheat on wheat. We always say that the disc drill will get through without plugging but does not mean the seed is where it's suppose to be. |
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| we have a nh p2085 disk drill It has hyd down pressure which will actually lift the drill full of seed off the ground when we no till fall cover crop into silage ground......its 40' and has section shut offs every 10' for the head lands........it has 3 different meters so can seed anything from alfalfa to soybeans, and if calibratied right it's dead on for accuracy! It has a ISOBUS plug which doesn't do us much good as we pull it with green........ very good seeder though IMO |
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S.W. Mn | +1 |
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West River, SD | What is the row spacing of your current drill? There are a handful of people here who notill with hoe drills, and they buy them with 12" spacing to clear residue. I have an old Haybuster hoe drill and a 1560 JD box drill, so I am kinda doing a comparison. This year, with less fall precip, the hoe drill got the seed to moisture, but I had more trouble doing that with the disk drill. My only real concern with the hoe drill is precise depth management for crops like safflower or millet. |
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far sNSW , Australia | Big debate over here in Oz also. I am still using a hoe drill. We mulch our stubble with a loftness mulcher, or cut it short with harvester. We also plant 12 inch rows and plant between last years rows with RTK. |
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NW Washington | Some of the folks with hoe drills that have trouble getting through heavy wheat stubble have resorted to either using either a flail shredder or a big bat wing rotary mower on the heavy stubble. I think there is a rule of thumb that stubble has to be shorter than the row spacing for hoe air seeder.
These guys tried using a "heavy harrow" but did not like the job it did, especially in hilly fields where the stubble was not even. The light areas ended up with little or no cover and they spread weeds.
Horsch and Anderson favored wider row spaces and paired row openers to cut down on the actual row spaces. They also use coulters in things like corn stalks.
In heavy stubble the single disc drill will do some hairpinning, especially if the straw is damp and the soil is soft regardless of disc sharpness.
Also being able to double shoot and put down fertilizer when seeding is another advantage of a hoe drill.
The best disc no-till drill, IMHO, that is able to seed into just about anything and put down fertilizer at same time is a Cross-Slot drill, but they are very expensive.
http://www.crossslot.com/usa
http://www.horsch.com/us/products/seeding-technology/zinkensaemasch... |
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SE ND | I like less maintenance of hoe, sometimes discs shine. SDX40 case drill is a really good no till disc drill.
My question is how is your residue management? Can you run a vertical tillage pass to size residue? |
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| wstar - 1/6/2017 20:50
we have a nh p2085 disk drill It has hyd down pressure which will actually lift the drill full of seed off the ground when we no till fall cover crop into silage ground......its 40' and has section shut offs every 10' for the head lands........it has 3 different meters so can seed anything from alfalfa to soybeans, and if calibratied right it's dead on for accuracy! It has a ISOBUS plug which doesn't do us much good as we pull it with green........ very good seeder though IMO
These drills are notorious for not having enough frame weight. They do a good job of cutting and penetrating if they have enough weight tho, but also Case/NH really dropped the ball by not providing a seed-lock wheel. In some climates & soils, this is disastrous.
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Paradise KS | What crustbuster did you rent? my 20 ft is a joke of a drill |
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nebraska | I don't know the model number I rented. I can find out next time I am in town. It was 15 feet wide and had two stacks of front end weights in front of the seed box. I was drilling in sod and it turned up loose dirt. Massive tongue. 4 transport wheels. |
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SE ND | SDX has options for seed lock wheel. |
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Eastern Colorado | When we used to run the seed lock wheel on our SDX drill they would go about one pass before it was wedged with a corn cob, and this was summerfallow not fresh stalks. Needless to say they were in a crate most their life. I know mhagny is hung up on not having a wheel on the 500 caseih drills, but it is a superior opener to the SDX drills, we currently run a 500T drill and have been able to get good stands in notill and conventional, do i wish it would get the seed to the bottom of the trench a little better yes but it still works. As far as hoe drills we also run a caseih flex hoe 400 12 inch spaced. Its an ok drill i wish it had the rubber press wheels because the steel ones can leave an extremely deep depression on loose soils, leaving the seed vulnerable to crusting if it rains at all. |
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| Helland - 1/7/2017 08:18
SDX has options for seed lock wheel.
He was talking about a NW 2085, which is the same as a Case 500. No seed-lock wheel, and no room to install one. |
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NW KS/ SC ID | Where are you located?
We ran old low clearance hoe drills again this year, and got a great stand. a few of the neighbors had disc and it looks not as good.
I would like to transition to more no-till, but still like hoe drills, so IDK what we are going to do either. We are very low budget and small size though.
Might even drag out the old HZ John Deeres, but they are 16 inch spacing, would have liked to go from 12 to 10 but HZs would be going the wrong way...
Edited by GM Guy 1/8/2017 01:04
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| JohnW - 1/7/2017 00:42 Some of the folks with hoe drills that have trouble getting through heavy wheat stubble have resorted to either using either a flail shredder or a big bat wing rotary mower on the heavy stubble. I think there is a rule of thumb that stubble has to be shorter than the row spacing for hoe air seeder. These guys tried using a "heavy harrow" but did not like the job it did, especially in hilly fields where the stubble was not even. The light areas ended up with little or no cover and they spread weeds. Horsch and Anderson favored wider row spaces and paired row openers to cut down on the actual row spaces. They also use coulters in things like corn stalks. In heavy stubble the single disc drill will do some hairpinning, especially if the straw is damp and the soil is soft regardless of disc sharpness. Also being able to double shoot and put down fertilizer when seeding is another advantage of a hoe drill. The best disc no-till drill, IMHO, that is able to seed into just about anything and put down fertilizer at same time is a Cross-Slot drill, but they are very expensive. http://www.crossslot.com/usa http://www.horsch.com/us/products/seeding-technology/zinkensaemasch... Some of the comments from people who've owned Cross-Slots: The repair costs were breaking them, and they never could get decent stands. The Cross-Slots have extreme penetration, no doubt, because they are extremely heavy and use hydraulics to transfer that weight to the openers. But the same principle can be used on openers that are much more effective.
Edited by mhagny 1/10/2017 06:45
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NW Washington | Well Matt I just have to say I disagree with you on the Cross Slot drill. The downpressure system used by Cross-Slot is only enough to keep the opener at desired depth.
I see that corn planters are just now beginning to use a similar system. The parts come from New Zealand, but the replacement of wear part on the opener is relatively simple operation and much less work than repairing a JD opener. Ag Pro in Lewiston Idaho is now assembling Cross Slot drills more suited to farming in this part of the Pacific NW. I think Gates in ND is making them in that area.
Dan Wolf in his video has been using Cross Slot drills for many years in Eastern Washington. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8REFJ6eDkg
http://agproinc.com/cross-slot-equipment-parts/ |
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best no-till drills?
