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| now that the physical laboring is done on the farm, its the time of year all the salesman begin showing up. knowing the current commodity prices we are all trying to either save money on crop inputs or get the best out of every dollar spent. that being said, our local fertilizer salesman showed up trying to talk me in to using a Helena product called Hydra Hume. Has anyone ever used it and if so, is it worth the money spent on it? |
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Sanilac Co. Michigan | Helena pushes it pretty hard around here. Is it worth it? I dunno, helps as a nitrogen stabilizer, so I like to include it in my wheat top dress. Guess it's worth it there. I've got some light, sandy, low CEC ground that I think it helps on so the potash sticks around a bit longer. My better ground, not so much. Would like to hear what others think too. |
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| Humic acid is good stuff but there are way cheaper sources than Helena with equal to or better quality |
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Thumb of Michigan | Decent product, high price. Using MTS Environmental product called simply "Soil Carbon" to do the same thing, improve soil health/stabilize nitrogen and reduce burn on wheat top dress. It's a humic acid product also
Edited by Wheelsup 12/3/2016 19:53
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| I spray 1 gal per ac with my fungicide on beans. I did see a Yield response. I would like to test it more next year to really see. |
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Eastern Idaho | As with most Helena products, it probably will do most of what is claimed. I just get tired of Helena trying to take something simple and basic, and refine it into something that can be put in a overpriced Helena box. I have two friends that work for Helena, and every time they come back from a Helena company conference I have to avoid them for a while cause they are so jazzed up about all the great boxed products they sell. I tease them about just coming from a Tony Robbins or pyramid "direct marketing" seminar. |
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indiana | Yes , agree. Go to Helena website. They are the king of proprietary products , and would like to see you use them all.
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N. IL | I'm enjoying the Hydra Hume stocking hat that was sent in the mail. Several has asked what it is as I wear it. Right now it's a good ROI, but nobody has stopped to sell it to us yet. I assume if they can afford to promote it broadly through marketing, it is a premium priced product. |
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SWIA | I use hydra hume in a big way, 10lbs/ac mixed with P&K stripped tilled with NH3. Also stirred a pallet of hydra hume in each hog barn. Got some mighty high yields. Dad spread his dry fertilizer on top always uses cal sul. NH3 in the ground. His yields were lower, but he had water logged soils and one number got dinged by chemical and big rain then weeds. I did not learn a thing for sure and neither did you guys after reading this. Maybe I paid for a product I did not need. But I am going to do it again and hydra hume needs to be cheaper. |
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Seward/Saline, Nebraska | Did you have a particular rate per 1000 gal or just dump some in and see what happens?
Did you start it in right before application? |
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Newfane NY | A very good practice to put that humic acid in your hog barn. Did it cut down the smell as much as I think it will? I am sure that your fertilizer tested much better with the humic acid then without the humic acid. Keep doing what you are doing with the human acid and you will be rewarded disregard the naysayers as they will never be satisfied or want to change from what Gramps has done.
Hydra Hume is expensive for the percent of humic acid but it does work. Spend a little time on the internet this winter and you will be able to find as good or better humic acid cheaper , I know I did. Good luck with your experiments and your observations. |
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Hopkinsville, KY | I guess I'm the nay sayer here. I would avoid their product. Humus (humid acid) for the most part comes from decomposition of plant tissue. It can be mined but that's from 1000 year old plants. If you take a good approach in managing residue or planting cover crops you get equal or better results. Spend your money that way, not magic juice in a jug. |
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North-East Texas | What do you recommend as a cheaper source? |
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| Pretty much any company is cheaper than Helena . |
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| Mr. drbrown, Thank you for your input, I have noticed you either work with Soil Service Inc. or possibly own this company. I also assume your knowledge in agronomy is extensive in Iowa and Missouri, I hope your expertise is all about soil health. I am a farmer from eastern Colorado with the altitude of 5253 feet and only receive an average of 12 inches of moisture in a year and most of the time that moisture comes in early spring. That being said, we rarely get the necessary rain to produce the crop residue to manage. With the hassle of fighting the no-till model of farming with my father and trying to keep the sweep plow out of the fields I now have 160 acres I have been no-till farming for 5 years. My first observation in year 2 was that the wheat stubble was all but gone come planting time the following fall. My rotation I am working with is to have wheat, fallow, wheat, then the following spring corn or milo, then wheat again then follow the wheat with sunflowers. This is my plan to manage crop residue. Because of the lack of moisture, I feel cover crops will use way too much soil moisture and leave me with nothing to get the crop sprouted and growing. The salesman claim that Hydra Hume will help me by building up organic matter in the soil quicker than taking up to 20 years to get it built up naturally after 100 years of plowing and leaving nothing in the soil for OM...
With your expertise and negativity toward what some claim as snake oil solutions,(as you apparently feel) what would be your answer to building up soil health and organic matter quickly (faster than 20 years I hope? |
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Hopkinsville, KY | I have only 1 questions for the hydra Hume. Never got an answer. How can 8-12lbs of their product build anything?
On the cover crop side, a number of studies show that covers can help soil hold moisture and release it as a function of time.
On the soil service note, we don't sell a humic acid product as the return is not viable. We also don't sell covers to my knowledge. We simply back science. |
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Milan,Mi | "The salesman claim that Hydra Hume will help me by building up organic matter in the soil quicker than taking up to 20 years to get it built up naturally after 100 years of plowing and leaving nothing in the soil for OM... "
Case9350 how are you using humic acid. 2x2 with starter, broadcast or in furrow at planting ? And how much are you applying per acre. I live in Michigan so the farming here is different than where you farm. I use humic acid on my farm as well as sell the product. I have never sold the product with the idea that we will build organic matter with it. But that may be a here-there thing. So how doe the salesman say you will build organic matter with humic acid. Not trying to be disrespectful, just trying to learn something new. |
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indiana | How does one ounce of chemical control weeds on an entire acre? |
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Southeast WI | humblefarmer - 12/3/2016 19:47
How does one ounce of chemical control weeds on an entire acre?
Pesticides are made for a specific target. Herbicide doesn't control insects for example. We can prove what it does.
Humic Acid has many claims. One guy here that sells it says he never knew it would build om... For those that claim it's a miracle product show us the scientific, repeatable, replicated data on what it does. Until then it's high margin snake oil. Oh but just believe and you'll be cured comes to mind. I like the way one poster basically says Dr Brown is "hating on" the product. Back to the belief system... |
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Hopkinsville, KY | Mode of action. Humic acids as far as building anything do t have a mode of action.
The thought that humic acids build organic matter is equal to saying that potash builds potassium. Only in the quantity you apply. So reasonably you only put in 20 lbs of humic acid you only get that. It doesn't build. Roots build organic matter as they are organic matter. |
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indiana | Dr Brown and Pva I am not an expert nor am I cheerleading humic acid. I do use it and can see benefits to using it. Now having said that I can't put a concrete financial number too it and say here is the ROI of it. Humic acid reminds me of gypsum(or generic gypsum) 5-10 years ago. Farmers who used gypsum early on were most often made fun of. Many called it Snake oil!! . At the power plants they had trouble getting rid of it . It was even free , just haul it off. Now it is in demand and some make a living storing/brokering/selling the product. Not saying that will happen with humic acid , but it might. |
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North Central Ia | Got talked into trying some hydra Hume this fall. Strip till, liquid p&k. Gallon and half to the acre. Was billed as an agent to help with fertilizer tie up in high ph soil. Did a check a with Avail couple years ago and saw very nice response of like 18 bushel on corn. But was crazy high volume so it made the Avail cost $45 an acre. At the time corn was $5+ so worked it out.
Same company that makes Avail has another product that is a better fit for liquid fertilizer called more than manure. Tried that product this fall in several checks and will see how it does. 18 ounces to the acre @ $1 per ounce. Still not cheap but better. |
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| I have not used this product at all, RMG. I am seeking answers as to the economical benefits if any. My grandfather once told me," everybody has a gimmick to sell the farmers of which most don't do any good for the farmer they just suck the profit out of farming" through the years I have witnessed this. With no-till it is harder to distinguish a gimmick over something that really works. with the downturn in our commodity prices it's harder to make decisions. Do we push for the yield or be conservative and get average or below yields? I have to get above average yields now just to break even so looking at technology that works is a necessity but adding extra expense to a product that is snake oil is not something that none of us can afford right now. with all that being said, I think I will wait till we have better crop prices to experiment on this particular very expensive product. I thank all of you for your input. This is why I like AGTalk it is full of information from so many people in the field and working with products that work and some that don't. its made making decisions a little easier.
THANK YOU ALL. |
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Hopkinsville, KY | Recent article suggested that microbes not only roots create organic matter. There are lots of bacterial/fungal products out there that are economical. That's my direction, it should be everyone's. |
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| If you are paying more than $8/gal for a 6% CDFA Humic Acid you are paying too much. Humic growth or agrisolutions is what I would recommend. |
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Hydra Hume
