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Iowa | I am curious to hear arguments on one vs the other for Fall tillage on good heavy 80+CSR farms. Currently have a 5 shank Deere 510 disc ripper which could be a 7 shank based upon our horsepower but why couldn't we get away with a chisel plow which would allow us to cover more acres with less horsepower & fuel? Given not too many of us moldboard plow anymore why do we need to be going 11-13" deep vs 8" which is what a chisel plow would do?
We currently still do some CoC but that might not continue next year based upon what prices do. Other than burying residue for the CoC, would just like to do fall primary tillage on these farms with a 2-3 year rotation.
EDIT: We no-till all of our beans so fall tillage would not be done before beans unless we needed to remove compaction.
Edited by michael3130 6/9/2015 19:32
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Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | We had a brillion disk ripper for about 10 years. I traded it off and bought a cheap chisel plow and a couple of good disks. The chisel plows are only used where needed and are cheap to run. I might get a dmi or Great Plains coulter chisel someday if I find one cheap. Maybe. Plain old chisel plows are working fine for now.
Edited by Big Ben 6/9/2015 12:46
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Michigan | We switched from disk rippers to a big heavy chisel. Really like how it performs. 4" twist shovels move a lot of dirt and do a good job at mixing trash. The Landoll we have is built strong. We normally run 8-10" deep but you can bury this tool like a ripper if your want to, you just probably won't be able to pull it. I've yet to see a compaction problem from not ripping our on our soil types.
Here's a pic of running over 180 bpa corn stalks that had been smashed by a rolling harrow. Came back and field cultivated once and planted no problem. Normally earlier in the fall when it's dryer we will disk in front of chisel if there is a lot of residue
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Mid-Michigan | wE BOUGHT A SUNFLOWER 4511 for a fall tool. I like the disc/chisel/disc combo. I was hoping to field cultivate once and plant in the spring. I occasionally plug but not too often. I had to add a cultipacker because of great big root balls left but its working pretty good without the second pass in the spring (which I hate for fuel, time and compaction). I thinks a onepass tool would be a little better than my field cultivator but I'm not spending any more money on iron right now. |
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Iowa | I hear you on not wanting to spend more money right now...going to be an interesting year. Would be nice to find a Great Plains turbo or ultra chisel to match our 300HP FWA tractor to cover the acres faster and then come back with our TurboMax in the spring before planting. |
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Dayton, IA | I would question you doing anything with your stalks going to soybeans. Maybe try leaving a few acres untilled for next year and see how it goes. Do some strips across the field and compare yield at the end of the year. We keep an old disk ripper around to sit in the weeds. We seem to use it some every year especially after a tile project, we use it to level the field before going back to reduced tillage, but not much. Corn on corn probably needs some tillage, but if you try it and get some confidence I'll bet you won't do a lot of tillage in the future ahead of beans.
A.J. |
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Iowa | We no-till all of our beans already. This would just be for CoC or to do primary tillage on it every so often...get the fields in a rotation so not doing all of them the same year. |
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SC Ont. | How wide is the Landoll ?
How much power in front of it and how fast do you usually go ?
I've always liked the Landoll chisel plow, would like to trade up a couple of JD's for one bigger Landoll. |
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NE Iowa | +1
have looked at those on the dealers lot and thought it might be a better option on my farm/ground vs a ripper. |
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Iowa | I agree. Don't really want to buy a 450hp tractor to cover what I need to with a ripper. |
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| michael3130 - 6/9/2015 12:21 We currently still do some CoC but that might not continue next year based upon what prices do. Other than burying residue for the CoC, would just like to do fall primary tillage on these farms on a 2-3 year rotation.
No idea where in Iowa you're from but any tillage in front of beans "here" is a waste of resources.
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Michigan | RF1 - 6/9/2015 14:21
How wide is the Landoll ?
How much power in front of it and how fast do you usually go ?
I've always liked the Landoll chisel plow, would like to trade up a couple of JD's for one bigger Landoll.
It's a 23 shank (29'wide) pulled by a 550 quadtrac with a steinbauer. Usually pull it about 5.5-6 mph in normal conditions.
There's some ground usually every year that we have to spring chisel and we will pull a double rolling harrow behind it. When we do this we drop the outside shanks to make it a 21 bc it's a load with the addition of the rolling harrow.
They do a good job. Doesn't ridge and never comes out the ground. We are happy with it. |
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Hancock county, Illinois | What rolling harrow did you use to lay those stalks down? |
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Iowa | We no-till all of our beans..sorry will edit the original post. |
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Western Iowa | I like no-till beans a bunch, but tillage isn't always a waste.
I didn't have a no-till acre of beans this year and normally I am 1/2 or all no-till.
Between dozer work, heavy dose of PNK needing worked in, lime needing worked in, and the last farm had a nice carpet of marestail that turns out did not have a resistance to iron. |
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cropsey, il 61731 | Ripping fractures (or at least it's supposed to) sub soil and the disks size and mix the trash on top along with giving the ripper point an easier entry into the soil. In my know nothing opinion the soil saver type chisel plow turns soil over to bury trash more like a moldboard plow without the hard pan. I was thinking landoll and others came back with chisel plows and I even saw some big MB plows to deal with heavy trash from COC. |
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Michigan | 8991 - 6/9/2015 15:54
What rolling harrow did you use to lay those stalks down?
Unverferth 1225 double basket. This was one of the last fields we were able to get into before winter totally shut us down. It was to wet and half frozen to disk so we tried this. Pulled it at about 15 mph and it looked comparable a lot of the VT tools. Was very pleasantly surprised at how well it ended up after the chisel plow went across it. The stalks were sized noticeably smaller this spring when we cultivated it compared to the field beside it we just straight chiseled. There also were a lot less rootballs sitting on top. We will be doing a lot more of just rolling the stalks down instead of disking I think. |
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| i dont qutie get why tillage is a waste in front of beans... I disk early spring and than soil finish lightly with my 6333 finisher right ahead of the planter and have better emergence, stands and less weeds than lots of no till fields |
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| btman - 6/9/2015 21:41 i dont qutie get why tillage is a waste in front of beans... I disk early spring and than soil finish lightly with my 6333 finisher right ahead of the planter and have better emergence, stands and less weeds than lots of no till fields
A properly equipped no till planter will produce better stands without tillage than it will with tillage.
You can see it nearly every year. The guys that do tillage plant their beans into a bunch of clods and dust and then pray for rain to get them up but not too much so it doesn't crust. The no-till guys plant into moisture and it takes one heck of a pounding rain to cause a crusting problem.
The weeds are a separate issue that can be dealt with cheaper with chemicals than tillage but it might take planning ahead a bit if you have tough weeds.
You likely spend as much on your two tillage passes as we do in total for chemicals to have season long clean fields.
Your mileage may vary but we won't be going back to doing tillage for beans. Aside from the waste of resources I don't particularly like running dirt through the bean combine either.
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| Waste of resources?? Haha Plant in dust and clods? Where do you Come up with that ? how bout planting into a perfect warm seedbed? How bout on a wet year? No till fields kinda wet? They are here in 250 bushel plus corn residue anyway saw more no till beans have to be watered by pivot than tilled beans this year cause of crusting |
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EC IL | Wow the conventional tillage farmers around you must be horrible. Lucky for you though. More ground to pick up when they go broke.
Edited by FromtheFlats 6/10/2015 08:29
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| I doubt many conventional guys will go broke because of tillage but it certainly doesn't help if you're strained for cash.
The past 5 yrs there has been a pretty steady conversion to no-till beans in this area. If the pace stays the same there won't be much conventional till beans around here in another 5 yrs. The switch is probably related to the ISU on farm field trials in the area that have consistently shown no yield increase from doing tillage for beans.
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MN | take a little drive outta your area, and i can show you a several no till drillers who are back to doing tillage,,, heck the even one die harder traded his drill off and went back to full tillage and 30" beans because of the consistent poor yields.. |
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"No idea where in Iowa you're from but any tillage in front of beans "here" is a waste of resources."
"A properly equipped no till planter will produce better stands without tillage than it will with tillage."
"The past 5 yrs there has been a pretty steady conversion to no-till beans in this area. If the pace stays the same there won't be much conventional till beans around here in another 5 yrs. The switch is probably related to the ISU on farm field trials in the area that have consistently shown no yield increase from doing tillage for beans."
Please point to anywhere in those statements that I was talking about MN or drilling beans.
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| If it wasnt for that evil tillage!! nothing grows!! |
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Chisel Plow vs Disc Ripper
