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SE Ohio | We removed and cleaned out the fuel tank, replaced every line up to the injector pump. There was black algae in the bottom of the tank per my thread below.
My question...
Are these tractors suppose to pressurize the fuel tank so when you remove the cap you get a rush of air from inside the tank??
We also put a new vented fuel cap on it. This morning I see it has puked some fuel out along the lip of the cap and running down the side of the tank, is that normal?
This thing is driving me crazy, and I sure could use some help here. Can't get anywhere with the dealers service dept's, they won't even answer the phone or return a call, not to mention the knowledge level is very lacking these days. |
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Mid-Missouri | Does it run bad idling in the driveway or only when pulling a big load?
If it runs poorly in the driveway, hook up a fuel line to the injection pump with a quart bottle full of fuel. Squeeze the bottle for pressure while it is running a see what you have.
You could maybe google the injection pump model number for some common specs such as what inlet fuel pressure it requires, etc..., or call a local good pump shop...you might need them after diagnosing...but I doubt it.
I do not believe there should ever be pressure in the fuel tank, especially if it has a vented cap, unless it was a one-way vented cap. Find out where the pressure source is coming from. The only way I am familiar with that is filling it full, and temperature/sun heat cause the pressure.
Don't thread the cap on crooked. I know some tanks have been replaced because of difficulty getting the cap on properly. It should likely have a flat o-ring in the cap for sealing the tank.
Edited by seedcleaner 5/28/2015 07:50
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south east iowa | I had a 6410 do the same thing. A good dealer should be able to look up detac solutions. The solution for mine after series of tests was to rebuild the pump. |
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West central Illinois | +1 on the pump. I have put several fuel pumps in my 6000 series Deere tractors over the years. |
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swmn | We had a pressurized tank on our 6430. They replaced the fuel pump and that took care of it |
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Southern Pa. | Had a 6410 do the exact same thing back in the day. Unscrew the cap, and it would hiss like a bicycle tire going flat. You could try a new supply pump, but, IIRC, I think the Deere dealer told me the injection pump could cause this problem. Could be wrong, it's been awhile. Noticed one poster mentioned his 6430 was doing it as well, which in this case would be the supply pump.
FWIW. |
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SE Ohio | Ok, are you guys saying it could be the electric pump or the injector pump??
It is supplying a full stream of fuel thru the 5/16" line to the filter. Then we took off the line at the injector pump, it is more like 3/16" and the fuel comes out of it under pressure, so I believe there is plenty of fuel coming into the injector pump.
This tractor runs fine setting there idling, also starts like it should, just doesn't have the power like it should going up hills on the road or in the field.
Operating on flat ground you wouldn't know there is a problem.
Thanks for all the ideas so far, I have talked to a local injection pump rebuilder about this and he is waiting to see what comes of the dyno run, which I hope to have done tomorrow.
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Southern Pa. | JD Farmering - 5/28/2015 09:59
Ok, are you guys saying it could be the electric pump or the injector pump??
It is supplying a full stream of fuel thru the 5/16" line to the filter. Then we took off the line at the injector pump, it is more like 3/16" and the fuel comes out of it under pressure, so I believe there is plenty of fuel coming into the injector pump.
This tractor runs fine setting there idling, also starts like it should, just doesn't have the power like it should going up hills on the road or in the
Operating on flat ground you wouldn't know there is a problem.
Thanks for all the ideas so far, I have talked to a local injection pump rebuilder about this and he is waiting to see what comes of the dyno run, which I hope to have done tomorrow.
Our 6410 started fine, and ran smooth.It was down on power, and would pressurize the fuel tank. A new fuel cap didn't make any difference. IIRC, the service manager told me it was likely the injector pump.Ended up trading it, and I didn't follow up on it to find out what it took to fix it. Maybe it's still being run that way!
It would be interesting to see what comes out of yours. Post your results,if you care to.
Good luck! |
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| This may be a dumb comment, but have you checked the timing of the injector pump????? |
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SE Ohio | With only 200 original hrs. I wouldn't expect that to be off.
So today I called JD service dept. again, this time got the manager to look up "detech"(am not sure if that's right or is it "detach".) Since it's a Delphi pump he is telling me that if it's putting fuel back thru the return line under pressure then it's a blown "membrane" inside the injector pump. This also agrees with the rebuild guy whom I also talked too today, he said it would be a blown diaphragm in the pump. So tonight the plan is to get the pump off and get it to him tomorrow.
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Southern Pa. | JD Farmering - 5/28/2015 16:14
With only 200 original hrs. I wouldn't expect that to be off.
So today I called JD service dept. again, this time got the manager to look up "detech"(am not sure if that's right or is it "detach".) Since it's a Delphi pump he is telling me that if it's putting fuel back thru the return line under pressure then it's a blown "membrane" inside the injector pump. This also agrees with the rebuild guy whom I also talked too today, he said it would be a blown diaphragm in the pump. So tonight the plan is to get the pump off and get it to him tomorrow.
Ours was a late model as well. Pretty sure it was a Delphi pump,now that you say it. I remember the service manager talking about a diaphragm in the pump that goes bad. I think age is as much (or more)of a factor than hours.I think you're on the right track.
Timing shouldn't be an issue with those hours except for the fact that Mother Deere set them slightly retarded from the factory for emissions purposes. They'll run and sound better if you advance them about the width of the timing line, IMO.
FWIW, Good luck!
Edited by JD 9400 5/28/2015 18:56
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SE Ohio | Thank you sir!!
Got the pump off tonight. Looking at this thing we are guessing here but believe that diaphram has a line going to the intake manifold....so the turbo boost is operating the diaphram to increase fuel delivery at boost.....there is also a line connected on the other side of it that runs to the return line to the tank.
I think if I am right, that's how we are pressurizing the tank when the diaphram is blown......
If I am right, then this dang thing could have been replaced while the pump was on the tractor.....we shall see....
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Southern Pa. | JD Farmering - 5/28/2015 20:16
Thank you sir!!
Got the pump off tonight. Looking at this thing we are guessing here but believe that diaphram has a line going to the intake manifold....so the turbo boost is operating the diaphram to increase fuel delivery at boost.....there is also a line connected on the other side of it that runs to the return line to the tank.
I think if I am right, that's how we are pressurizing the tank when the diaphram is blown......
If I am right, then this dang thing could have been replaced while the pump was on the tractor.....we shall see....
I honestly don't think that you would have an aneroid fuel control and a fuel return line ending in the same "pot". If you did, then anytime you would have a no/low boost situation your return fuel could potentially end up in the intake manifold.
On a side note, l always felt our 6410 was kinda lazy, even before it developed the same problem yours seems to have. If your pump ends up on the test stand, l would recommend giving it a little extra fuel. (Maybe like 15 percent?) There is an external screw that could be used to trim it back if you felt it was excessive.(only trims the fuel back from about 1500 rpms and up, doesn't affect the lower rpms) This could be done without "opening" the pump.
Good luck!
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6410 fuel issues
