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Southern Alberta Canada | We have a bunch of ISXs around here now and I've noticed the oil temperatures are anywhere from 180 to 230 degrees under load. Yesterday I visited a local dealer and he said the thermostat for the oil cooler doesn't even open until 235 on the ISX (225 for N14). I asked him why this was and he said it's 100% fuel economy. My understanding is cooler oil is best, is there any reason I need to run oil that hot? I read online that some have removed the thermostat from the oil cooler and run them that way. The oil is not going to run cooler than coolant temperature anyway. |
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Somerville, Indiana | bad things CAN happen...Buddy with pickup engine was happy that it ran so cool all summer...Before winter the oil had clabbored in the pan and starved the engine, a bad experience for all...So, if the coolant thermostat would happen to partial open and cause engine to run cool that could happen to the Cummins...I am sorta stuck on 175* operating temperature too, but times a changed...Might have a fear of changing one thing could have an adverse infection on another. |
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South Western Ontario, Canada | I was listening to road dog trucking(XM radio).
They had a engineer from Cummins on and he touched on this subject. Its all about emmissions and mileage. Hotter the engine the more reduced the emmissions are and hotter the oil, the easier the oil flows to create less parasitic power loss from engine.
Guess the oils are designed to handle such heat so it shouldn't be an issue. (but I've been wrong before and will be wrong again) |
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Southern Alberta Canada | Kinda ironic isn't it? Add a turbo to the engine, OOPS, air's too hot, add charge air cooler, OOPS air's too DENSE, combustion temperatures too high, add wastegate, OOPS too much oxygen, add EGR, OOPS combustion temperatures too cool, heat oil and coolant... Anybody else wonder what would happen if we just put all these fancy electronic engine controls on a naturally aspired engine? |
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Southern Alberta Canada | If the oil cooler thermostat is removed in winter the coolant will heat the oil because the oil cooler is built right into the block so the oil can't get cold. I've checked on several occasions back in the eighties and nineties with engines that didn't have oil cooler thermostat. At - 45C the oil was still so hot you couldn't hold your hand on the pan. It was so cold the oil line to the gauge in the cab was freezing up, these were cabovers. |
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North Liberty and South Bend, Indiana | Question
"...at what point (temperature) does it start to break down and not protect the engines parts from damage?"
Answer
"Conventional oils will tolerate engine oil sump temperatures of up to 250 to as much as 275 degrees F without difficulty. According to Quaker State engineer Mark Farner, oils like Quaker State's full synthetics can easily withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees F, and he says that some oval track race teams are experimenting with temperatures as high as 350 degrees F. For a typical wet-sump engine, 300 degrees F is still extremely hot, but Farner says that synthetics, because of their molecular makeup, are better suited to withstand these temperatures. The downside is that additive packages do tend to break down faster in high-temperature environments, so if you plan on running oil temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, this would mean changing the oil after every track event regardless of the mileage. |
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Center of the Universe, Huron County, Ontario. Can | When we came out with the DD-15 in 2007
We did some side by side tests vs same spec Series 60
DD-15 beat it by 5% same day same load etc etc, fuel SAE test .
BUT
That gap narrowed to less than 1% in winter.
Threw us for a loop.
Turns out.
The last few years of 60s have T stat in oil cooler.
The DD15 did not.
Oil was being overcooled !!!
DD-15s all have thermostats in the cooler now.
Cold oil relatively speaking takes hp to pump.
I'd leave em in.
My 2 cents
By the way, you want oil to get above boiling temp to boil off water, or you get acid forming.
Oil can be too cold.
Edited by Corn Field Cadilac 2/11/2015 20:39
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53590 | Corn Field Cadilac - 2/11/2015 20:36
When we came out with the DD-15 in 2007
We did some side by side tests vs same spec Series 60
DD-15 beat it by 5% same day same load etc etc, fuel SAE test .
BUT
That gap narrowed to less than 1% in winter.
Threw us for a loop.
Turns out.
The last few years of 60s have T stat in oil cooler.
The DD15 did not.
Oil was being overcooled !!!
DD-15s all have thermostats in the cooler now.
Cold oil relatively speaking takes hp to pump.
I'd leave em in.
My 2 cents
By the way, you want oil to get above boiling temp to boil off water, or you get acid forming.
Oil can be too cold.
Your statement about getting oil hot to boil off water is very true!! Have a friend who works at car dealer and he said you can always tell between cars that get to operating temp for a period of time and one short tripped. They had to manually clean slime out of an engine that a guy drove 3 miles to work shut off and repeated daily. He said there was almost half a quart of water in there! I was shocked when he said they have a guy who puts lots of miles on his suv and run 20,000mile oil changes with mobil 1, guy has 290,000 on it!!!! |
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South Western Ontario, Canada | Corn Field Cadilac - 2/11/2015 21:36
When we came out with the DD-15 in 2007
We did some side by side tests vs same spec Series 60
DD-15 beat it by 5% same day same load etc etc, fuel SAE test .
BUT
That gap narrowed to less than 1% in winter.
Threw us for a loop.
Turns out.
The last few years of 60s have T stat in oil cooler.
The DD15 did not.
Oil was being overcooled !!!
DD-15s all have thermostats in the cooler now.
Cold oil relatively speaking takes hp to pump.
I'd leave em in.
My 2 cents
By the way, you want oil to get above boiling temp to boil off water, or you get acid forming.
Oil can be too cold.
Hey Chris,
Question about your side by side test.
Was it the same driver?
Drivers are THE BIGGEST factor to fuel economy. Only pointing that out fact. Same truck, same load, same road one driver can get 6.2mpg and other can't brake 4mpg. |
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Southern Alberta Canada | So 180 degree oil is "cold oil"? Wow. Good information guys, the difference between 180 and 240 degree oil for diesel engines is going to be about 0.0000001%, maybe a bit more when the engine is idling.
The ISX sensor is in the pan so that means the oil in the engine has to be over 250 degrees, the more I think about this the less sense it makes. According to you guys I need to change it every ten hours? They recommend 25000km or 600hrs, diesel engine oil must be far more forgiving then race car oil. We don't have condensation issues in any of our diesels here. Gas engines have a bit. |
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Center of the Universe, Huron County, Ontario. Can | JC
Good question
We have dedicated trucks that test mpg
One is a benchmark used day in day out, have years of data
When we test against it, we know day in day out what the other one does,
Switch drivers 1/2 way, turn around, come back,
Chalk the tires so fuel in exact same spot at fuel island, hey a couple inches of can impact how much in tank,
We measure temp of the fuel,
It's a science.
Your comments are very valid,
Not uncommon to see 30% spread on mpg , same trucks spec for spec, just different driver.
As for oil temp, keep in mind high pressure fuel pump in isx is lubed by oil, not diesel as in DDC
As the ad used to say, it's not your fathers Oldsmobile ....
My 2 cents
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Oil temperature ISX.
