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Nunn CO | Hello All,
Looking at buying some more grain capacity for harvet. We are starting to flood our current set up and naturally don't want to be shutting down during harvest. So the question is what to buy? It takes a little over 30 minutes for a full truck to leave the field dump and be back. Right now we run all straight frames and really like them, however, I'm guessing there is a reason so many people own semis, and grain carts. Once grain is at our farm site we do no hauling, it's completely processed and sold from there. So far this is what I'm seeing; With a grain cart you have to start your tractor up every time to fill your trucks, however, they seem cheap and unlike a truck/ semi no fuel, plates, insurance, DOT, street fuel, etc. Grain trucks are handy because they are small (600 Bu), maneuverable, and easy to unload alone. Then again that's there downfall.....its only 600 bu. Semi, probably the most expensive between initial upfront costs and running expenses, which I can get over, but then I need to trust whoever is running it to unload themselves and not back over my auger or anything else for the matter. Seems like a lot of in and out for the cab.
Just looking for some advice.
Thanks,
Update: I have a new 10" auger and its a 4-5 mile drive from furthest field to bins.
Update 2: Combine has to dump every pass. Takes 24 minutes, maybe less to make a pass.
Update 3: Only have one reliable truck left, lost one after harvest this year. Hence the Semi Vs. Grain truck Vs. Cart opinions
Edited by BryceH 11/3/2014 21:53
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southeast north dakota | What are you unloading into at the farm? 10 inch swing auger? If so i would invest in a 13 inch. Start there and see how it improves. |
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| semis- the farther you are from the field to the bin site the more you will love them. 600 bu vs 1200 bu equals half the trips back and forth. get a drive over or a hopper mover of some sort. con is hard to get in to tight spots and not as handy as a straight truck when the ground is soft
grain cart- possibly the best investment you can have especially if you have the man power to keep a guy in the cart. keep the combine moving and watch the extra acres add up. its like another small combine and a grain truck rolled in to 1. get the biggest you can pull with your tractors. if 600 is all you can handle then fine but get an 800 or 1000 if you have the horse to put in front of it |
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Central Mo | If you do get a semi,once you use it you will want another aND then the straight trucks will sit. Half as many trips and it's easier to unload |
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Alberta Canada | Would look at a bigger auger if you don't have a 10" already. Went from a 8"-10" swing and it was pretty close to adding another truck. If you are running tandems already a semi will take the same amount of time to drive to and from the field as a tandem but you will be hauling more, something to think about with fuel usage and drive time. |
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Tuscola, IL | +1 on the auger cart.
We bought a 600 bushel M&W last year and couldn't imagine getting through this harvest without it with all the extra bushels we handled. It lets us cut later into the night after the elevator has closed and, in our case, we were able to remove one truck from the equation. We don't even unload on the move and it still lets us get way more done than we were getting with just two trucks. Problem is, now we are looking at replacing the one truck with a semi. But, I'm glad we added the cart first. It gives us a lot more options throughout the season. This year for instance, we had issues in half mile rows getting back to the road. We parked the cart in the center and it let us work off of each side then drive the cart up to the truck. |
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Windom, MN | In the last 10 years, we have gone from 10 300 bushel gravity wagons (basically 2 sets of 5) and a gas tandem to a grain cart and a semi. We used to have a batch dryer, so the wagons were nice for that. we could have a batch in the dryer and 2 batches ready to go. The wagons were slow, but our farm land is all pretty close so it wasn't a big deal. In 2006 we added a semi. The tandem we kept because it wasn't worth much, and we could now have 3 batches waiting to go in the dryer. Then in 2008, we upgraded the dryer to a continuous flow and made the old batch dryer bin into a wet holding bin. At this time, we started selling the wagons because we could move a lot of grain with the tandem and semi, and the wagons rarely got used because they were so slow.
In 2010, we purchased our first grain cart. We found that we could get a lot more done with the cart and semi and just left the tandem on the farmplace. In beans, dad would catch me in the combine on the go until the semi was full, then he would park the grain cart on the end and go to the elevator. I would fill the grain cart, and when he got back there was usually enough to almost fill the semi again. So we sold the tandem to a scrap yard (it was pretty used up) and now we are way more efficient.
In 2012 we started working with the neighbors during harvest. They have an S670, but only one semi. We bring our cart and semi, and we can really cover acres and keep the grain away. But again, their land is all really close to their bin site, just like ours. If we had a 10 mile trip, I'm sure we would have a much harder time keeping up.
So, in all this upgrading, I would say the biggest efficiency we have gained during harvest time is the cart. Dumping on the go really saves a lot of time, and you can keep the trucks moving. The problem with a cart is you do need to have another operator. One guy can run 2 trucks, but you can't have 1 guy running trucks and a grain cart. |
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| Without knowing how far you are trucking my first upgrade would be a 13" auger followed by a grain cart. Hard to give advise without a little more info about your grain set up. |
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Nunn CO | Sasksodbuster - 11/3/2014 13:52
Without knowing how far you are trucking my first upgrade would be a 13" auger followed by a grain cart. Hard to give advise without a little more info about your grain set up.
I bought a new 10' last year and it is approx 4-5 miles from furthest fields to bin site |
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Rivers, MB | I'd agree. More info needed.
How many combines in the field. What crops and yield. How many bu/hr are you normally harvesting. distance from field to bins.
Few thoughts in general though.
A decent day cab and tandem hopper trailer is often cheaper than a nice diesel tandem up here.
13" auger usually feels likes its close to double a 10" auger. Probably closer to 1.5x.
A cheap gas tandem will be almost as fast as a diesel tandem truck if the distance you are hauling is short or lots of turns/stops.
Hauling 10 semi loads is a lot more relaxing for the truck driver than 20 tandem straight truck loads in the same amount of time.
In crops yielding 40-70 bu/ac, we find a grain cart allows us to harvest 15-20% more in a day.
a PTO driven cart will be faster than a hydraulically driven cart but depending on yield, may not be a limiting factor. We can keep up to a 9860 and 9750 in 140 bu/ac oats with a hyd. drive grain cart. but you need a good operator. There is no point in spending $15000 for a PTO for a tractor so that you can unload faster and then sit and wait for the combine to fill up if your yields are low enough that the cart is sitting sometimes. |
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southeast north dakota | With that short of haul you need a grain cart. Will gain 25 acres a day easy. |
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Hazelton, Kansas | Bryce,
We haul nearly all our grain to a local Coop. Haul distance ranges from about 600' to 15 miles, but most of it goes about 5 miles. Way less than half our road miles are paved, and since the oil play hit the area all our roads have gotten rough (I'm being kind here).
We run three 600 bushel single axle tractor-trailers. We used to run straight trucks, but we like the short semis much better. They are all Jet 22' steel trailers. Tractors range from an '86 IH-1954 with a 466 to a '98 IH 9100 with an M-11.
For our use, the important thing is not how fast the wheels turn, but that they turn. A good, reliable, slow truck (with decent tires and brakes) is what I want. The old 466 IHs take maybe two minutes longer to make a round trip than the newer M-11.
When we hit an empty pit at the Coop, unloading time depends only on how fast the help can crank the hopper door. By the time he gets it open, he starts closing it. When the Coop is busy, and there is a long line at the outside dump, we can often negotiate through the inside pit...same pit where I used to dump 13.5 foot straight trucks as a kid.
These trucks, which started life as urban beer-haulers, are very maneuverable. They can make u-turns in many country intersections without backing up. They turn shorter than a crew cab half ton. They also negotiate narrow field entries far better than a large semi or a tandem straight truck.
So...at least drive one of these little guys before you make your decision. They are short on show, but they're about as simple and light as you can get, and they get the grain hauled for us.
Regards.
MDS
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Cambridge, southwestern Nebraska | I think I would start with a cart larger than your trucks. |
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Delta | BryceH - 11/3/2014 09:37
Hello All,
Looking at buying some more grain capacity for harvet. We are starting to flood our current set up and naturally don't want to be shutting down during harvest. So the question is what to buy? It takes a little over 30 minutes for a full truck to leave the field dump and be back. Right now we run all straight frames and really like them, however, I'm guessing there is a reason so many people own semis, and grain carts. Once grain is at our farm site we do no hauling, it's completely processed and sold from there. So far this is what I'm seeing; With a grain cart you have to start your tractor up every time to fill your trucks, however, they seem cheap and unlike a truck/ semi no fuel, plates, insurance, DOT, street fuel, etc. Grain trucks are handy because they are small (600 Bu), maneuverable, and easy to unload alone. Then again that's there downfall.....its only 600 bu. Semi, probably the most expensive between initial upfront costs and running expenses, which I can get over, but then I need to trust whoever is running it to unload themselves and not back over my auger or anything else for the matter. Seems like a lot of in and out for the cab.
Just looking for some advice.
Thanks,
You can get huge tandem axle grain carts that would hold 1000 bushels |
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Central Nebraska | There are a lot of good answers here but I think we really need more info. All the trucks in the world won't help you if the bottleneck is the 10" auger at home. Trucks will only keep you going a little longer if that is the case. So, where is the bottleneck? |
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Hopkinsville, KY | My question is where is the bottle neck? That's where the fix needs to be. I guess I'm odd, but I think your bottle neck is at the bin. If you had a leg and a pit you could dump and go. This way the truck can make it back in the drive time. Then a grain cart would be the next thing. Now a pit and leg are expensive but will increase your production 10-25%. The other trade off would be the bins need to be together. If you are handy and frugal you can put the pit in and find a used leg (fixer upper) and come away cheaper in the long run. But that's my thought. |
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Fairbury, NE (Southeast) | I would sell the straight truck, buy a semi with a 42 ft hopper trailer. And buy at least a 500 bu cart or as big as you can afford. your productivity will go up significantly because you haul 80% more each load. You should have plenty of room to maneuver in CO :) |
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M | How big is your combine? How many bu. could you combine none stop in a hour? |
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Nunn CO | shoop - 11/3/2014 18:18
How big is your combine? How many bu. could you combine none stop in a hour?
Combine has to dump every pass. Takes 24 minutes, maybe less to make a pass. |
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Central Nebraska | BryceH - 11/3/2014 19:43 shoop - 11/3/2014 18:18 How big is your combine? How many bu. could you combine none stop in a hour? Combine has to dump every pass. Takes 24 minutes, maybe less to make a pass.
How big is the combine and head? How fast are you driving? What are your yields? We are trying to figure out how may bushels per hour you are combining. As several have suggested, you need to eliminate your bottleneck, which may be your auger at the yard. If your cutting 2,000 bushels/hour and can only dump 1,500/hour into the bin you need a bigger auger.
We can dump 4-5,000 bushel/hour into our system and only harvest 2,400 on average. With two 36' semi trailers we can easily keep the combine going from 10 miles away. |
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Nunn CO | golfnut - 11/3/2014 18:50
BryceH - 11/3/2014 19:43 shoop - 11/3/2014 18:18 How big is your combine? How many bu. could you combine none stop in a hour? Combine has to dump every pass. Takes 24 minutes, maybe less to make a pass. How big is the combine and head? How fast are you driving? What are your yields? We are trying to figure out how may bushels per hour you are combining. As several have suggested, you need to eliminate your bottleneck, which may be your auger at the yard. If your cutting 2,000 bushels/hour and can only dump 1,500/hour into the bin you need a bigger auger. We can dump 4-5,000 bushel/hour into our system and only harvest 2,400 on average. With two 36' semi trailers we can easily keep the combine going from 10 miles away.
Wheat runs roughly 30, 36' head, 4-5 mph, In one hour I cut 18-20 acres which would be 550 bu ish , but I have to dump every round so, that's every 24 minutes roughly. My bottle neck is without a doubt not having a something waiting at the head of the field every pass. |
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Central Nebraska | It would be overkill now but I'd look at a large 1,000-1,200 bushel grain cart. The operator would have a lot of down time but with a three man crew you would never need to stop. Plus, when you upgrade to a semi truck you will be able to load it with one dump. |
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Hazelton, Kansas | Bryce,
OK, now I'm bumfuzzled.
The combine loads the trucks in an hour. Truck round trip unload time is 30 minutes. How can the combine be waiting on trucks (assuming two trucks).
Not being critical, just trying to understand the problem.
Regards.
MDS
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Near-north Ontario, French River | No idea on how many total bushels you a moving but I'm gonna say that your assumption that semis are more expensive to run then straight trucks is wrong. You have to think in cost per bushel moved . A semi will haul 2x the grain as a straight truck. It will get poorer mileage BUT gallons per 1000bu hauled will be lower, fewer drivers required, less maintenance lower insurance etc when figured on a per bushel hauled basis |
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Near-north Ontario, French River | He says he's running 18-20acres an hour, in 30 bu crop, averaging 550bu/hr. I gotta believe the 10" auger at the bin is not the bottleneck. I'd lean towards a cart, as others have said keep the combine moving. Ideally I'd replace tandems with larger semis on a 2 for 1 basis at the same time. |
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CO | Don't see the problem. Your dumping the combine every 24 min. That's 2.5 times an hour. If combine bin is 250 bu. that's 625 bu per hour. One truck driver can dump 2 600 bu trucks in an hour which is 1200 bu. per hour. You need a bigger combine. |
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Nunn CO | crowbar - 11/3/2014 19:36
Bryce,
OK, now I'm bumfuzzled.
The combine loads the trucks in an hour. Truck round trip unload time is 30 minutes. How can the combine be waiting on trucks (assuming two trucks).
Not being critical, just trying to understand the problem.
Regards.
MDS
Lost a truck this year, thankfully after harvest, and am down to one (reliable one anyways). Hence the reason I'm looking for a truck, semi, or grain cart. |
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Jonesville, Mi | 600 bushel cart or bigger if you have a tractor for it. I run a 6225 univerferth on a 4440 and haul most of the grain with 2 550 bushel wagons. We run a tractor on each wagon and the tractor with cart on the weekends when I have the two dads help. I load the cart with the combine on the go and he's waiting for the tractor to pull in with the wagon, fills it quickly with one dump and the wagon is headed back home. By the time the second wagon is back the carts loaded and ready to dump again. We run a 10x72 auger and dump in 7 minutes so I don't think you auger is a issue. We can easily move 1500+ bu/ hr this way 4-5 miles away. When there is only the wife and I the cart helps tremendously because it's very mobile and can be parked whenever needed. I have one field it gets parked in the center of the field and I fill it while she's gone and drive it to the road to load her wagon when she returns. We also have a field where I dump at each end with just the two of us so I park one wagon at one end and the cart at the other. She takes the wagon and dumps it then comes back and dumps the cart in her wagon and dumps that then back and switches wagon and dumps it and this continues all day and it works great. You will quickly find the advantages of having a cart if you get one and wonder why you waited so long. This was our first cart bought in 2012 and I don't know what we would do without it. I also use it to move dry corn from a drying bin to storage bin. |
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| I would get as big a cart as you could pull, and not rule out the semi. Was just telling my dad today that I sure would hate to go back to hauling with the gas burning tandem trucks-not that there is anything wrong with them, but with our hills, the semis just handle them so much better. |
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Hazelton, Kansas | Bryce,
I may get flamed for this, but here goes. You may not need a cart. Dunno what size your combine bin is, but I'll bet your combine range is well over a mile.
Keep this simple. One combine, two trucks (600bu), and TWO people.
If you are primarily cutting back and forth across quarter sections, and you have a road on one side, unload across the ditch. Spot the trucks on the road adjacent to where the combine is cutting. We can't always do this, but with a little judicious field layout and spotting of the trucks, we can cut most fields fairly fast. We have only one long, narrow, odd-shaped field with poor access that gives this approach trouble.
No, the combine is not unloading on the go, but deadheading is minimal. And is IS possible to unload the bin before it is full. :-)
I don't own a cart. Yes, a cart could speed up our harvest a little, but carts are the heaviest axles on most farms, and we no-till. I haven't seen a solution for cart compaction, outside of tracks (or controlled traffic). By the time you buy a tracked cart and tie up another tractor and driver, you can buy another combine. Then you have some real redundancy.
Regards.
MDS
Edited by crowbar 11/4/2014 06:42
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Fairbury, NE (Southeast) | I agree to some extent on what you are saying....except a 500-600 bu cart is around 6-8K and a decent tandem truck is 20K+.
A 600 bushel cart on dry ground will cause minimal compaction. Especially if used primarily as a holding bin. Wet ground is different, but the combine will be making the same issues. If full on the side of the field, dumped, pick up combine load.....you have less axle weight than the combine.
A serviceable truck and trailer is maybe 30 depending on your ego needs. One vehicle to license/insure. Truck diver dumps cart, then dumps combine on go a couple times and is full. Combine stops half the time speeding things further.
A larger truck in the off season is fairly self explanatory. |
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Callao, Missouri | A grain cart is nice because then you can load someone else's semi, letting them haul for you keeps your guys closer and adds extra capacity during harvest. I would rather hire another man for the cart than a truck as I worry about seasonal help after they leave the field.
I would also rather dump a hopper any day over a hoist. Once again less to go wrong with gravity in charge.
My grain cart doesn't break down when not in use. My semi can and does occasionally. |
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Hazelton, Kansas | 4020,
All good points. If the cart never traverses the field while full, I think I (and my soil) could live with that.
Off season use of the large truck is also a good point.
If I could grow 200 bu dryland corn here, I would certainly own a cart. This last weekend, we could have used one, as DC milo yields are good, and we were cutting partial swaths to get back to the truck. Unfortunately for us, those conditions are rare. We run 25' headers and 300 bu bins, so our range is normally pretty good.
Regards.
MDS
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Central Illinois | Thud - 11/3/2014 20:23
No idea on how many total bushels you a moving but I'm gonna say that your assumption that semis are more expensive to run then straight trucks is wrong. You have to think in cost per bushel moved . A semi will haul 2x the grain as a straight truck. It will get poorer mileage BUT gallons per 1000bu hauled will be lower, fewer drivers required, less maintenance lower insurance etc when figured on a per bushel hauled basis
Depends on where you are, I asked about this in a thread specific to Illinois and for our needs, 60,000 corn a year and 20,000 beans a year with 30 mile round trip to elevator two single axle straight trucks and 440 brent wagon is by far the cheapest option for Illinois, but we are a state dominated by Chicago so farmer exception laws are minimal so semi licenses are insanely pricey. One truck and wagon sits at the end of the field while the other is going to the elevator, almost the moment the driver gets back the other truck is ready to go in corn and usually about a 30 minute wait when in beans (I would like to step up to a 35 foot head, currently run a 20 on our new to us this year 9760). We can get about 800 bushels on a load and between the trucks, and wagons we only have about 30,000 total value with a minimal licensing fee due to the single axle truck. We do have an old Killbros 475 but its tires are looking bad and the value to replace them is worth more than the wagon so it will likely be scrapped in a couple years. We use it some, but mostly only place it at the end of long row fields to allow us to empty a few bushels each pass to get us back to the other end of the field, never dump on go as we would really need another worker. |
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Semi Vs. Grain truck Vs. Cart opinions
