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Morris, IL | Rebuilt our JD 643 this year from top to bottom with all aftermarket parts. Just couldn't bring myself to spend the money on Calmer or Clarke for this head, i believe they want 2-3 times what the 643 is worth.
Stripped the head down few weeks ago, old rolls pulled right off without puller. I guess keeping head inside 360 days of the year pays off. Cleaned shafts up and changed all the seals. Old snapping rolls were tapered JD rolls, factory x43 equipment. We did an exchange with B&R welding in Gilman, IL. http://www.brweld.com Got JD remanufactured knife rolls rebuilt to better then new specs for pennies on the dollar compared to JD, Calmer, or Clarke. Brent over at B&R welding was very helpful knowing what needs to be done and what works on the older corn heads. Also exchanged few other wear parts on the top side from them. Slow down kit from CFC. http://www.cfcdist.com/shopping/gathering-chain-slow-down-kit-p-188... New gathering chains along with half paddles. Deck plates were from shoup few years ago, i had neighbor put a 162 degree bend in them with his new high tech brake. Poly came from agtalker jbweston out in Ohio, that went together pretty good and looks like should help with our already down corn. DAM headsight sensors came from an agtalker down south that i forget his name at the moment. I think that sums it up, big thank you to Dave Cen.Ia for his help along the way. Have about almost 5k in the whole deal beside my labor. Hoping this will help with our strip till COC and specifically side dressing it with our NH3 rig. Few years ago we ran our head side by side with knife roll head and it was night and day difference come spring so i'm hopeful.
I forgot to add, if anyone is interested the old steel center snouts and/or ear savers would be for sale. We kept the low tin ends to put on a relatives old high tin wide row corn head.
Edited by NEILFarmer 9/4/2014 20:11
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SoCenIL | Looks nice. What is the 2X4 for? |
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Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80 | Just something I noticed: Seems like some guys, want those "wear strips" added to poly snouts. Maybe they wait until it wears down some, in those high wear areas, I don't know. I just wonder if it is better, to add them, before too much wear occurs, or if it is no problem, afterwards. Maybe, someone with experience will chime in. |
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| For spacing the deck plates with the correct taper. Easier to push them against something and tighten instead of trying to hold and tighten. Still need to make sure they are centered over the row. I made this tool using sockets. 
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| Looks like a great job Ty ! I think you will be happy with all your upgrades. You have made all the improvements at considerable savings. Where did you get the tightener blocks and chain guides ? Were the guides cast or steel ? Did you do anything inside the gearboxes with the cluster gears ? Be sure to follow up with how it performs. The poly should help considerably in the down corn. |
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Morris, IL | The 2x4 has a hole near the top that is perfectly centered. I put a 1/2" socket extension through it into the gear case plug. That perfectly centers it between the rolls at the rear. The under side of the 2x4 i put few spacers, one is 1 1/8" and bottom is 1" or so. So my deck plates are 1" at the front and 1 1/8" at the rear. I have to manually eye center the front, it works really good. I'm not sure who's idea that was but i got it off agtalk somewhere at some point. |
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| Loran Steinlage I think posted it. |
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Central Ohio | Looking good! Glad to seem them put to good use. :) |
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Morris, IL | Didn't do anything with the gear box yet, as long as we run it on 7720 i'm told i will have no trouble. I've heard that same thing from few different people with many years experience. So if we trade for a 9500 someday we can update gears, take our chances for few years, or trade for newer 693 or 843. Brent over agh B&R though just going to an 8 row and slowing down would help considerable amount.
The cast blocks, both the black things came from B&R welding. They are an exchange, 19$ for one and 20$ for the other i believe. He knows how to ship all over if your interested too Von.
Will do with a follow up. |
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Morris, IL | I would be interested to know myself. They are not currently thin at all in my opinion.
Edited by NEILFarmer 9/4/2014 20:00
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Nevada, Iowa | Sweet! Job well done. |
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Eastern ND | Nice job. One thing, though. Did You put a washer on the gathering chain tightner? I see one on the head of the long bolt, but can't tell if You put one on the end by where the spring sits against the "L" shaped flat iron. If that hole gets a little hogged out, the spring will wedge itself in there and the gathering chain will jump off. |
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streator illinois | Im in the process of doing our 693. Have a puller from JD but what a job. I may have missed it but what do you have your deck plates at?
Edited by plowman 9/4/2014 22:15
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Eastern Half of Kansas | Did you have to pay extra over the normal price because the tapered fluted aren't cores he can use? |
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Morris, IL | No, You are basically paying for the new equipment. I think if you really wanted to you could keep old ones but i don't know why. 185$ per roller. He also quickly cuts the factory weed knifes so they fit. |
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Morris, IL | I saw where Calmer talked about that washer, i could find no excessive wear and i've never had trouble so i left it off. My only problem with that washer is it makes things harder to put gathering chains on. Maybe wouldn't have made a difference, kind of wish i had of put one in and wish i would have gotten the correct size rather then just regular 5/8" out of the bin.
Edited by NEILFarmer 9/4/2014 23:17
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| Love me a money-saving corn head rebuild job, although "here" I sure would hate to not do it with real knife rolls. I kinda get your reasons for not doing so, but... Anyway, thanks for the heads up about B&R Welding, I had never heard of them but they sound like people I should talk to. |
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Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80 | Here's a link to Shoup, for that washer. I did add it to mine. (but we hadn't had that specific problem, either) http://www.shoupparts.com/SH18504/ |
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Morris, IL | Deck plates are 1 1/16" and 1 1/8" if i remember right. Did you end up going with Calmer parts Craig? |
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Eastern Half of Kansas | If I understood him correctly he couldn't use tapered fluted rolls to make knife rolls. They were worthless as cores to him. He was talking about charging me extra if I wanted knife rolls. |
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streator illinois | No went with Deere. We just couldnt bring ourselves to spend that money for the acres that we cover. |
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Morris, IL | He can't use tapered for knife rolls, they are very different. And i guess i don't know anything about that, sorry. I know he charged 185$ a roll for the knife roll and we exchanged a tapered roll. He knew well in advance so i don't know what happened. You will need the hardware for knife rolls if you don't already have them. Roll pins work but there are 10 or 12 bolts per roller.
One thing i though about doing but chickened out was having him build a tapered roll that comes to a knife point out of our old tapered roll. He could probably do that same but make it a strait roll rather then tapered. Maybe it would be cheaper, or maybe not. His theory is if you use a tapered roll they pull easier so if that is the case might not have trouble with cluster gear. |
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Morris, IL | If you haven't bought already, or don't mind returning i'd look into B&R. Maybe you already have it together.
"We just couldnt bring ourselves to spend that money for the acres that we cover." Completely understand, that is why we did what we did. I personally think Calmer just jacked up there prices way to high. |
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Morris, IL | What do you mean "real knife rolls"? I mean they are not Calmer or CIH or something but they are considered JD knife rolls and way he rebuilds them they are better then factory. |
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ND | By using those rollers won't you have to continue using a stalk chopper? -even new JD knife rollers up here don't do a very good job. I switched to Calmers on half the 8 row head & what a big difference-switching out the remaining 4 rows this year-no need for a stalk chopper-choppers are not cheap either to buy or maintain. |
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| Sorry Ty, I reread your whole post and see that they are knife rolls. I missed that earlier and just thought that they were rebuilt fluted rolls. Could you post a picture of how they look underneath the head? |
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| Your project looks great, agtalk is a great place for ideas and sharing
Notice you have refined the Bin addon extension
How high is it, how much more bushels, no harm to extra weight pressure
How much has calmer by gone up,
Edited by old boy 9/5/2014 04:03
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SW Ohio | If you are talking about the stainless steel strips that go next to the chains, I recommend putting them on before you get a lot of wear, my head was just beginning to show the wear, neighbors was about plumb wore out, once it is worn the strips do not fit properly and you are closing the barn door after the horse has left. |
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sw corner ia. | the only knife rolls that really work AND last are the oem case. deere's sure aren't in that category. |
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Morris, IL | The bin extension is a bish built by havs farm supply. I will hold 250 bushel clear to the top, with the off set can and the see through mesh we can get to 240 without even trying and without spilling a kernel. Folds very easy, i forget now how tall the extension is but i know it's 14'6" with it on combine with 30.5 tires. Most 9500 with extensions hold more and they are only 13.5 or so tall i think.
I just checked old hour meter yesterday. 1400 plus 5350 right now, extension has been on all but 409 if those. We had final drives apart few years ago, reversed them and been good ever since. I have feeling it will be in Mexico before finals cause trouble again. It will wear fountain auger out quick.
As far as Calmer, they have went up quite a bit. I can't give exact numbers but it use to be you could put the whole kit on for less then 1k a row. Then last spring i saw this. http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=484469&mid=393...
I think they even wet up little since then as well. http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=497632&mid=404... But overall they are very very high, just look at the gathering chains, 110$. Ours our chrome pin for 30$.
Edited by NEILFarmer 9/5/2014 09:53
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Morris, IL | I don't have pictures from the underside, i should have snapped few pictures before i put them on. I got combine tucked in corner of shed but something i'll get some underside pictures. If all goes right plan to snap few pictures of the job they do as well. They are not like CIH but just couldn't bring myself to spend the money for the Clarke upgrade (CIH) like Dave Bell has. |
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Northern Illinois | Good job! Poly looks good. Finished product looks great, you can proud of that. |
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| Here are how factory JD knife rolls and NDY stompers on every row process stalk here. 
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Hennepin, IL | Actually Ty, the $110 is for 2 chains (1 row) and they are Drives chains, same as OEM USA made chains, but yeah I still find it tough to argue that one.
Added: BTW did you buy the poly aftermarket or used off of someone? Just wondering because I've been shopping around possibly for next year and like the looks of those snouts.
Edited by AVP_Matt 9/5/2014 10:04
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Morris, IL | My mistake 60 to 110, still pretty bad. I don't mean to down play calmer stuff, I just think their pricing has gotten way out of hand.
Poly was used, it's poly that JD made when the x93 came out as a kit for x43 heads. Came from jbweston above, was a 1243 that they are converting to 18x20" head. Tried to get all the snouts for myself and neighbor but someone beat me to it. |
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streator illinois | We just bought new chains sprockets rolls and hardware from deere was a little over 2600 i think calmer was 1300 a row but that came with new deck plates. I dont have exact #'s with me cant remember 100%. They also let us use there puller which is a plus. Dont no if they wouldve if we went with calmer. Not bashing calmers product because it looks nice just a little more than willing to spend. |
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ND | One thing I noticed was the corn plant comes into the Calmer roll half way up-the fluted Deere is barely up & gets bulldozed ahead. Paid 1,100/row for Calmer Choppers a month ago-it chops the whole stalk into bits & the only thing lacking is the spinning lawn mower blade-its a chopping corn head less the lawn mower blades & your saving maybe 50,000 over a new chopping header. Most chopping corn heads require a newer combine than you want or can buy--so the Calmers give you a new reconditioned head & you can use your old combine. |
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Morris, IL | That isn't bad on all those parts from Deere, maybe we need to make our way to streator for parts more often. Now was that JD knife rolls, I was thinking the newer 693 with the knife half and such that you wouldn't need a puller. Maybe your head had fluted rolls?
Couldn't agree more on calmers.
I was down your way few times this year, your crop looks great, hope it still does. You seemed to dodge this 85mph wind we had first of July. |
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Hennepin, IL | Ahhh well then I guess that won't work very well on our 1083. Not too worried just yet, I'd really like to do a complete overhaul of our head like you did and also add hydraulic deck plates for next year, but willing to bet that can will get kicked down the road again. |
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North Central Kansas | If no one has emailed or spoke up, I am interested.
message me if they are still up for sale
thanks
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Morris, IL | Hydraulic decks plate is something we thought about, if we were looking at another 2012 crop i'd probably put it on, but what we are looking at looks pretty decent so figured we can kick that down the road for a while like you say. The combine is setup for it, but i'd rather not have to use it. We put a valve in the unload auger circuit but found the system in general leaks like crazy somewhere, didn't notice any problem until we put valve on, but it's moving auger 6' overnight now. But with that i had to keep moving the fore/aft reel every round. One day of that and i said heck with it and pined reel solid and ran rest of the year. I figure hydraulic deck plates moving wouldn't be good deal. I think clarke hydraulic kit for 6 row is 2750 ish, looks like 8 row is in the 3300 range.
If i was buying new poly, i'd look at Clarke machine. http://www.clarkemachine.com/dividers.htm List price for 6 row is 5400, ouch. 8 row would be 890$ more. I keep saying 8 because i was thinking you had an 8 row. For that kind of money for poly i think i'd just trade for a newer head myself. If our wasn't used we would have never spent that kind of money.
I figure out head was about a 4k dollar head before rebuild. We put about 5k into it for 9k total. I could not find a 693 that looked decent for less then 13k and that would most likely still need all the wear parts we put on, but it would have had heavier cluster gear, and factory poly, and maybe hydraulic deck plates. So i figure we saved at least 4-5k even if i update cluster gear and put hyd. deck plates on someday, right now we've saved about 7k over trading. I don't know if our 643 is actually worth anymore now and i don't know how it would hold up to a 9500 but besides that i know what we got and i'm happy.
Edited by NEILFarmer 9/5/2014 16:54
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Between Omaha and Des Moines, 7 miles South of I80 | A year and half ago, I looked at Clark Machine poly, and liked the way it is designed and tilts. (Thinking of trying 19" row corn, back then; other than my little experiment, with a couple of planter passes, at 19") |
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Hennepin, IL | Yup we have a Cih 1083 (8 row 30") and I know what you mean about the poly being spendy but to move to a 2208 we'd be looking at minimum 20K it seems like for one that is in similar condition to ours mechanically. At best I'd say we'd get 7500 on trade and maybe 10 on an outright deal since ours is a late model (actually the last year before factory poly snouts). The downside to trading up is, unlike deere, the red corn heads haven't necessarily gotten better since then. Because of that I've been intrigued with the idea of overhauling this head ever since clay and cliff posted the thread of theirs last fall. But like I said there's a few things that will probably come first (like the dryer situation I mentioned last fall).
Edited by AVP_Matt 9/5/2014 18:44
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Morris, IL | I was going to say what about trading for a newer 1083 with poly, or buying a 1083, trading snouts and selling it again if yours was in better overall condition. I think it was bigswede (Matt S.) had some pictures of his 1083 that was factory poly that looked like very nice head. Cliff and Clay project is top notch, they always are. |
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JD 643 Corn Head Rebuild Pics
