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| Just purchased a used Gehl CTL 80. This is our first skid steer. It operates on the "H" pattern. I have never run a skid steer before so it would seem to me that it will just be a matter of getting used to the controls. My son has run a few different ones and he is ready to trade it off because it doesn't have "pilot" controls where one stick controls machine movement and the other controls the boom or loader. Are pilot controls the same as ISO controls? It is a 2006 model and the book talks about it being ISO controls but gives no indication that it can be changed from H pattern to Pilot controls. Is there a way to do that on this machine? It is basically the same as a Takeuchi T150 is my understanding. Thanks for any help you can give us. |
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Middlesex County, Ontario | Pilot and ISO refer to different things.
H and ISO refer to the control pattern. ISO is one stick for moving, one stick for digging. H is what you have. Be glad you don't have the old Gehl T sticks.
Pilot controls are where the joystick directly moves a small hydraulic valve. The small hydraulic valve moves a large hydraulic valve which moves your cylinders. You get some feedback, no delay, and don't wear out your wrists. You can get pilot H controls or pilot ISO controls.
There are also electric over hydraulic controls, where an electric joystick moves the hydraulic valve which controls your cylinders. You get some delay and no feedback.
And then the older skidsteers you just directly move the hydraulic valve through levers.
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Eastern Iowa | What you are going to find with skid steer controls are not everyone will have the same preference in controls. I think a lot of this has to do with change. If you started out using the old T handle control or the hand and feet control to run the bucket then you will have to change your way of thinking and relearn how to operate the pilot control or hands only controls. This is easier for some people than others. My suggestion is if you never operated any of the old systems then it should be easier to start out with a machine with the newer control. I do not know what would be involved in changing your machine over to pilot controls but a dealer should be able to give you an estimate and what it would involve. If your dealer still has a lot of customers using and buying the H type controls then you might be able to do a trade and get what you want. A lot will also depend on how many hrs. You are going to use the machine. Hope you can find something both you and your son can operate. |
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Wi | As stated ISO is a pattern. Like anything ISO it is the international standard. IMO if you are new to operating and your other operator wants ISO pattern, spend the money to switch it. The nice thing about learning ISO is that no matter what you buy down the road you can have that pattern. Not necessarily on used machines, but every new machine can be ordered with ISO pattern. Many charge extra others have it standard.
Pilot is simply a type of control. When they first came out in skid steers most had the ISO pattern so everyone just associated Pilot controls with the ISO pattern. A pilot control is a simple precise way to operate. A lot of construction and mining equipment uses pilot hydraulics. Basically there is a low pressure pilot hydraulic system that runs to the controls, when you run the stick it operates a servo which sends fluid through the pilot circuit to operate the function you want. Its more precise than wires and a hydraulic leak is easier to find than a broken wire.
Newer machines are all going away from Pilot controls in favor of EH controls. They still have a ways to come on the EH controls as they are not as responsive and offer poor "feel" but they allow increase comfort by being mounted to the seat and most machines offering a pattern changer.
Since your machine has pilot controls you need to replumb the sticks in order to have ISO pattern. I am sure Gehl offers a kit you could price or just look at one and see about doing it yourself.
You will like the ISO pattern, especially if you are new. The reason it was chosen as the ISO pattern is due to its similarity to patterns in other equipment and the fact that new non-biased operators found it made the most sense and was easiest to learn. A lot of people who are used to older patterns have a hard time figuring out how to make one joystick do what two did before, but its not hard just takes some time. More people switch everyday. In our area Bobcat is actually the holdup, they do not want to sell any machines with their EH controls where most of the other brands have either phased out foot controls or pushed their customers towards EH controls. Deere now has EH foot controls which should be interesting. I wont argue that you can't beat the feedback and response from a manual control, but after about an hour of using every limb in your body to operate a skid steer you realize how nice the pilot and EH controls are. Plus with ISO pattern you can change radio station, HVAC settings, talk on the phone, etc while still driving without much effort.
If you have trouble learning it at first just put your right hand on the lap bar and drive around, once you need to operate the boom then take your hand off the bar and operate the boom. Eventually you will be able to blend it all together. |
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missouri | I have a tl150 with pilot controls on that machine there is a kit available at the dealer that includes a hose and a bracket and maybe a few other parts to turn it into H controls a search of the web should show you the kit im not smart enough to post a link your machine must have one installed on it should be fairly simple to uninstall it but not sure I always ran H controls till we bought this tl150 with pilot and after a few hours I switched over pretty good its all what your used to but I do like having one hand free while driving with the pilots. you will love the power and traction of that machine by the way and yes it is nearly identical to a tl150 except the cab door is different if it has a cab and a few small odds and ends parts |
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east central wi | I have been running joystick in my gehls since 2009 and love it. My first one was set up on the H pattern and I had it changed to operate like the normal T bar controls which cost about $400. |
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Iowa | what do you mean bobcat wont sell EH controls? Every G series I have had had EH controls. And If they were doing it 10 years ago they are doing it now. |
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Wi | dieseldoc - 2/18/2014 11:01 what do you mean bobcat wont sell EH controls? Every G series I have had had EH controls. And If they were doing it 10 years ago they are doing it now.
They have offered them for many years and they are standard on some machines now. Like I said, IN OUR AREA, the dealer seems to push people away from them as I know nobody with them and when I tried pricing a machine with them they said it would be worth nothing and nobody wants it. Just our area dealer, not Bobcat as a whole. |
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| I appreciate the information. I thought that the ISO pattern was the same as what I had seen advertised as "pilot controls". My assumption obviously was wrong. Evidently from some of the posts I was maybe not the only one that had that misconception. My original question has to do with the pattern of the joysticks as far as what they operate. Mine has the "H" pattern and the other option would appear to be "ISO" pattern which is what my son prefers. He rented a JD 333E back in December and it had the "ISO" pattern but had a feature that would allow it to change the pattern with the flip of a switch. Obviously this would indicate electro/hydraulic controls which I will have to go look to see if this one has EH controls or pilot controls. |
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| We called our local Takeuchi dealer and their shop foreman was not aware of any way to change from one pattern to the other but then he also thought that they were all ISO pattern. If it just involves uninstalling a kit it would probably be worth doing. Fittings and a hose as part of the kit would lead me to believe it has pilot controls instead of EH controls as discussed above. |
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Wi | Heres a parts boom for your CTL80. I have never dealt with the conversion of a pilot machine, and looking through both that manual and my Cat parts manual I don't see specifics on the conversion but would only assume you simply need to redo your hydraulic lines. The only thing I would wonder about is the drive side. The loader side seems like it would work fine just moving the lines around but the drive side now needs to send power to both drive motors with the stick forward versus just one motor. For whatever reason in my head I feel like there may be something more than just re routing the lines for the drive side but I could be wrong. IIRC Cat charges a couple thousand to convert a machine later on so there must be a few parts and hours involved. Then again they charged 1400 for a pattern changer for awhile and all it included was a $20 switch and 30 minutes of a techs time to activate it in the computer.
http://www.rigginsne.com/documents/upload/CTL%2060-70-80%20Parts%20Book%20Part%201.pdf
Edited by durallymax 2/18/2014 17:17
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Triplett / Brunswick MO / Brookfield | I was use to Case controls (both levers used for stearing and wrist action on each lever for bucket control). When I got My Mustang MTL25 (it's the same as your machine or Tak 150), I was aprehensive about the pilot controls. But after operating the pilot controls for 1/2 a day, I would have to say they are by far the best. |
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farmland indiana | You could do like my dad would have done. He would have gave me a shovel or a pitch fork and after a hour or two of work. Than said something like this how do you like that skid loader now. |
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Wi | Speed - 2/18/2014 20:25 You could do like my dad would have done. He would have gave me a shovel or a pitch fork and after a hour or two of work. Than said something like this how do you like that skid loader now.
That's what one guy did when he went to Cat's with pilot controls. The workers wanted their foot controls back so he offered them a shovel. No more complaints. |
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| LOL. There are two reasons I don't think I will take your advice. He is bigger than I am by close to 80 lbs. and he might get to say what rest home I go to if/when that day comes. |
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Skid steer question
