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Bartlett TX | you know, its a real shame, but i bet they all get cut up and scrapped. Just thinking of the major protos that never were. Some of my favorites.... There was a replacement for the 2388 being developed prior to the NH buyout that was supposed to be an original axial flow only bigger. Talked to a couple guys who saw it back in the day. Man i would love to see pics of that.... Also i love the Cat experimental page that we probly have all seen with the protos that lead up to the Challenger 65. I wish there was more documentation made public as to how these companies arrive at new models. I remember seeing the pics of the 8870 deere on tracks, how cool. I am sure IH had a tractor that was going to come out to replace models before the magnum.... man i would like to see that too. What are some of yalls favorite machines that never were? Man i could go on and on about mine. wish they were in a museum somewhere instead of in a scrap pile. AM |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | I'm guessing the Deere's pretty much get smelted into engines.. I tried to buy the 7930 we had 6mos before the release and that's what they told me. I will say the ineterior and all that looked totally different and some options that had been put on for "pictures" didn't show up or look the same when they realeased them in Aug07. A bunch of the 7030 small frames in the pix are actually 20 series with the upgrades bolted on, then took back off for resale.
As for fav: I saw 8100TDeere high track(high drive triangle) go threw town 1 night 2 yrs ago with the tracks tarped up always wondered what happened to it. Or the green Versatile's they had literature printed up on days before Ford got them--loran |
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Mather, Manitoba | Bourgaults first air tank made is supposed to have been repainted and put on display up at the plant in St Brieux, SK |
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Bartlett TX | i am unfamiliar with the green versatiles, please expand.... |
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West Central Ohio,Shelby County | When Deere realized the limitations of repairing the 8440 & 8640;i.e ,getting the engine out or tranny worked on,they looked at buying Versatile.
I believe they wanted Versatile because of their modular design and ease of service.
Not sure,but either the U.S. OR Canadian gov't didn't allow it because JD would have had too much of a market share of 4 wheel drive tractors.
Must have been close to reality if they had literature printed up. |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | It was to the point We actually had a trade price for one and I remember seeing the literature(nothing near a normal Deere print)but it had all the specs and important info........... I wonder what they'd did if a guy signed a purchase order? It wasn't like they had a like offering with the BI-DI. So they couldn't have just gave you a replacement. I don't remember the exact $$ but it was high enough to make you think a little,but looking back it could have been a true collectors item--loran |
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Field Queen Inc. | Loran....
I have a book here about Lyle Yost and the Hesston Corporation. Says in here that Hesston and Versatile barely missed a merger also. Everything was drawn up on paper, but something about the trade agreement or something..... would have to look at the book for sure, but anyhow it was shut down at the last minute.
Also.... speaking of prototype tractors..... I am told that around 1975.... Field Queen Incorporated (division of Hesston) expirimented with a prototype of an articulated 4 wheel drive tractor for Hesston to sell. It was built at their plant in Maize KS I guess the market slowed down and it was the only one ever built..... However it was sold and is still supposed to be in operation somewhere in Kansas.... any of you Kansas guys know anything about this??????..... would love to see pics!!!!
Take care
Tyler in PA |
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Field Queen Inc. | Just thought of another....
Any of you remember the expirimental 7800 Field Queen forage harvester? It was in 1976 that they began working on the prototype. This thing was a terror on wheels when it was running.... 903 Cummins 350 HP.... which at its time was the most horsepower on any chopper on the market. They started with a 26 inch helical knife similar to the regular Field Queen knife and a separate blower. It is said it would chop so much feed that the blower could not handle the volume. It was then converted to a cut and throw system, and was the first unit to hit the market with the mini knife system. This was long before Deeres duradrum. The knives were mounted to rotor plates.
The 7800 must have been an impressive machine but suffered a devastating effect. In 1977 there were ten of these units built and sold to be tested as expirimental machines only. The 7800 most certainly performed to its ability. However due to the high volume of silage, the knife mounts would self destruct after 30 hours of hard corn chopping. The ones chopping sorghum silage worked just fine. In late 1978 all then of these machines were purchased back from their owners and completely destroyed. Probably to avoid other companies picking up on the mini knife technology, which Deere got ahold of anyhow.
Talk about a shame. This thing was a monster for its time.... anyone else remember??? Sure would like to hear stories.....
Here are some pics if they work
Take care
Tyler in PA
Edited by thall1976 1/25/2008 23:04
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Bow Island, Alberta | Farmer not far from here bought a JD prototype driverless tractor. He had to buy the cab, steering wheel, etc to be able to use it. He didn't get any of the "driverless" parts, though. |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | That would have been an awsome pairing=serious competition--loran
ps I found some pix's of the 7030 family taking a break between photshoots' for ya since it look like you like that stuff
The picture is the "the new Ground force" and I heard it made the Deere annual report 8)--loran
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | http://www.akapowerwashing.com/farmshows.html
prepped 7030 ground force shot
http://www.deere.com/en_US/newsroom/media/images/2007/releases/farm...
shot by waukon Ia
Edited by loran 1/26/2008 00:12
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Kansas | 4wd hesston?
Never seen it and know nothing of it Tyler. This is news to me.
Thier row crop tractors were a fake. I can about imagine what that 4wd been like. |
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Field Queen Inc. | Rich....
Dick Simon down at Maize Corporation told me of this.... Guess he worked for the Field Queen company from the time it started until they moved out of Maize KS to Hesston in 1977.
We traded emails for awile, and that was about all he told me about it. Apparently it was put together by Field Queen at their factory, and Hesston was supposed to sell it. I guess only one was built. Dont know if there were even any decals put on it. Ive been trying to find pictures for a few years.
The row crops of the 80's were built by Fiat werent they??? Heard they were fuel effecient.... but thats about it. Never many came into this area anyhow. Seemed like after Fiat bought them out, things went downhill pretty quick.
Course if it wasnt for Fiat, the Hesston name may not even be around anymore???
Take care Rich
Tyler
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Kansas | There were quite a few sold around here, the Hesston tractor. Don't see many anymore though. Were a real good loader tractor becasue they'd turn shorter than any FWA of the time. They went through clutches though. |
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N IL | they get cut up for scrap
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Iowa | bigaljack - 1/25/2008 19:46
Also i love the Cat experimental page that we probly have all seen with the protos that lead up to the Challenger 65. I wish there was more documentation made public as to how these companies arrive at new models. I remember seeing the pics of the 8870 deere on tracks, how cool.
One of the original CAT prototypes is at the Iowa State Agricultural Engineering Research Center and one is up at the University of Wisconsin-Madison Biological Systems Engineering Department. Iowa State used to have two additional prototypes back in 2003 or 2004 but when CAT opened up some sort of a museum, they went back to CAT. |
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Chilliwack BC | I had thought that pre-production models got donated to colleges after they were tested in the field. College I was at had a JD 4450 and 8430(4wd) in the lot just for appraisal practice and apparently Deere donated them. Some parts are different as changes were made before the real production run. I think the college isnt allowed to sell them. Not sure what the serial number is. |
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Iowa | plow79 - 1/26/2008 10:05
I had thought that pre-production models got donated to colleges after they were tested in the field. College I was at had a JD 4450 and 8430(4wd) in the lot just for appraisal practice and apparently Deere donated them. Some parts are different as changes were made before the real production run. I think the college isnt allowed to sell them. Not sure what the serial number is.
That practice used to be fairly common but it is not done nearly as often anymore. |
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Somewhereville, Earth | honda got rid of a lot of its 3 wheeler stock in 87 buy giving the engines away to colleges too
the CIH pre production tractors that come out now, are updated and sold to customers, you can tell them by serial number
don't know what they do with there true protypes
MF combines that come here were returned, but some test mules stayed here, i know of one, its a MF36RS, still used for testing, switches, arm rest controls, new fronts etc
claas do a lot of testing here, had a lex 600 last year, it was later sold to a farmer,
true prototypes are usually cut up, testmules that are used to extensively test, seem to stick round sometimes
its a shame cause often the prototyping is more interesting then the final product |
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Hanska, Minnesota | 
The Oliver Hart Parr Collector magazine just had an article about Oliver and white proto types. I was surprised to learn Oliver had developed several working proto type cvt transmissions in the 1960's plus some interesting engines. I would love to know where one of these tractors might be. Sounds like the company may have dropped the project due to large tooling cost. There is Rumor of a white experimental pull type rotary combine still setting some where up by Bradford. If I had some extra cash I would track it down.
Edited by Adam Suess 1/26/2008 20:38
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So. Ill. | Adam Suess - 1/26/2008 19:36
The Oliver Hart Parr Collector magazine just had an article about Oliver and white proto types. I was surprised to learn Oliver had developed several working proto type cvt transmissions in the 1960's plus some interesting engines. I would love to know where one of these tractors might be. Sounds like the company may have dropped the project due to large tooling cost. There is Rumor of a white experimental pull type rotary combine still setting some where up by Bradford. If I had some extra cash I would track it down.
Some info on the prototype White engines
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc298/bashboard_photos/whiteprot... |
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West Central Minnesota | I read that same article in the OHPC's magazine. Although the article is in an Oliver Collectors magazine, the transmission as well as the engine were being developed in California at the White APD (Advanced Products Division). The engine was one of several that White was developing for not only the farm tractors but also for their truck division. At that time White thought that they could take over the truck market and wanted to have their own engines instead of buying engines. The largest engine slated was a 950 cubic inch V-8. All engines were supposed to be in production with in a year of the time when White decided it could not open the new state of the art engine plant in Canton, Ohio because of monumental financial problems. The transmission met the same demise along with several other projects that were ongoing at APD. Most of this info comes from Mr. Robert Singer who was head of APD and has his signature on the patent for the transmission in the above mentioned article.
The picture has been around for quite some time. I am not 100% sure but believe that the gentleman on the left is Bill Foss a former president of Minneapolis Moline. The short man is Mike Verhulst, an engineer who was first known for his work in designing the A4T in less than 6 months. I am only guessing about the last man, but I think it could be Bob Cummins who was a president of MM but was promoted to President of Whites farm division. If you see any mistakes in this post, please feel free to correct me. |
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SW Sask | Without revealing all the details, I recently took a job change after 11+ yrs with a short-line implement maker that became part of CNH.
When I started in field test, my father (actively farming at that time) asked what became of the prototypes. After just a few years of use, he was disappointed to hear that they are typically destroyed.
After a number of years in that line of work, and many stories about the use and abuse those machines go through during accelerated testing, he finally conceded that he was glad he wasn't allowed to buy one...
Also, in my travels, I had a farmer/cooperator who was testing one of our units ask me the same question. I sheepishly replied that they get scrapped. His response: "Excellent!" Turns out that he had done testing with another, smaller manufacturer, and had taken the opportunity to purchase the test unit. The result was years of frustration - the failure areas of the machine were not improved (whereas the version that hit market was improved.) And virtually every repair had to be a DIY, as there was ZERO parts support, and less parts commonality than you would think.
In short - having grown up on a small, penny-pinching operation, and then being part of the team that did the test work.... Its hard to take, but it is in everyone's best interest that those machines just go away.
Also: Pre-production means different things in different worlds, but for the big names, these are final-version prototypes. At least some portion of the fleet goes for futher testing. But they are built with exactly the same staff, tooling, and process as the production units. Its just a chance for everyone to have a practice run. They are typically FULLY updated (if there are changes before the full production run. And because there aren't many produced, they are typically built with a lot of care.
danr |
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WC MO | I wish that Mark Underwood would have donated his two experimental bi-rotor combines to the Agriculture Hall of Fame in Bonner Springs, Ks. Especially the first one, Whitey. But the BR2 also. It would have been a real draw for the Ag Hall. And it would be better than letting them rust in a pasture in Burr Oak which is what they were doing the last I heard.
I would think he could have written off their value on his taxes since the Ag Hall is a non-profit, far as I know. Would have been great all around for everyone.
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what happens to all the prototypes?
