|
|
| In this area its about 50/50 for fitting ground. I know everybody says disks are big compaction makers but so are cultivators. I have heard the old they use disks to build roads etc, but just havent seen this on our farm, using penetrometer there is no more compaction in the fields we use disk on versus the fields we use field cultivator on? some of our ground is stony and cultivator brings up more rocks than disk does. Can cover more ground faster with cultivator for sure. looking at revamping our tillage tools so lets hear some valid fact based arguments for one over the other. |
|
| |
|
| Get the best of both an get a soil finisher... |
|
| |
|
| senorthdakota - 5/24/2013 19:30
Get the best of both an get a soil finisher...
Had one, couldnt keep it from plugging and couldnt keep it together |
|
| |
|
Eastern Ont | If you have lots of stones get a disk
If you like picking stones get a cultivator
If you dont like either get a cultivator and a HEAVY packer
|
|
| |
|
| Disks I found excellent at deflating fluffy moldboard plowed ground. That looked like packing. Disks had no effect on grasses but if pulled 9 mph some weeds would be tossed into the air to land root exposed and to dry.
Field cultivator with the right sharp edged shovels were effective at cutting off spring weeds like grass and wild mustard the the disk left behind. Before I went notill, I plowed in the spring disked three times until I added a couple spring tooth bars to the disk, then I disked twice, and after either disking I made one pass with the field cultivator with three spring tooth bars on the back and I had a beautiful looking seed bed.
The disk was much better at leveling plow furrows than the FC.
Gerald J. |
|
| |
|
| We pull a rolling harrow behind both tools and both make good seedbed. Think cultivator seed bed is more level however |
|
| |
|
Michigan | Cultivator is more fool proof. Even if the operator doesn't have it leveled correctly its not going to ridge like a disk. On our soils you will notice the compaction from a disk if the soil is to wet, a culivator will open the soil out to dry and leave a garden. However when the soil starts getting really dry a disk will leave the ground alot nicer than the culivator. |
|
| |
|
SEON | Gerald J. - 5/24/2013 19:56
Before I went notill, I plowed.... ... then I disked twice, and after either disking I made one pass with the field cultivator with three spring tooth bars on the back and I had a beautiful looking seed bed.
So it went like this?
1. Spring Plow
2. disk
3. FC
4. disk
5. FC
|
|
| |
|
| Anybody ever done a study to show yield differences between the different machines? Just seems always here things like "best disk is one parked in fence row" "havent used a disk in 20 years" or "they use disks to build roads" etc but never been shown factual information on this subject |
|
| |
|
SEON | wstickel - 5/24/2013 19:23
..... lets hear some valid fact based arguments for one over the other.
Time and money spent maintaining a disk are higher.....WAY higher if you have rocks.
Edited by rank 5/24/2013 21:59
|
|
| |
|
| rank - 5/24/2013 20:37
wstickel - 5/24/2013 19:23
..... lets hear some valid fact based arguments for one over the other.
Time and money spent maintaining a disk are higher.....WAY higher if you have rocks.
But how does it compare to time and money spent picking stone? |
|
| |
|
| We used to cultivate and then disc while applying herbicide at same time. I found that the ground worked with disc would always crust alot worse since like other say it takes the fluff out of the soil. Newer cultivators can all handle residue really well and the finishing attachments have improved greatly compared to 20 years ago. We have tried different attachments and if you are going to run over corn stalks then I would recommend the three bar coil with roller or go with full coil and pulling a crumbler. On rocks, discs are no fun to straighten out blades and cultivators you can run shallow if needed. Not sure what type of soil or previous residue you are working but a Lemken is another type of tillage to consider.
http://lemken.com/en/products/stubble-cultivation/rubin/ |
|
| |
|
McLeod County, MN | How about a strip till bar?? I had heard a coulter type machine like the soil warrior doesnt bring out very much stone. |
|
| |
|
SEON | wstickel - 5/24/2013 20:39
rank - 5/24/2013 20:37
wstickel - 5/24/2013 19:23
..... lets hear some valid fact based arguments for one over the other.
Time and money spent maintaining a disk are higher.....WAY higher if you have rocks.
But how does it compare to time and money spent picking stone?
Hitting stones costs parts and labor. Picking stones costs labor.
Edited by rank 5/24/2013 22:01
|
|
| |
|
Morris, IL | We have used disc for primary spring tillage for 10 years or so after a 19' bush hog finisher with 5 bar dump rate that dates back before my time. Added a field cultivator three years ago, took a while to get use to what it can do but now it is the tool of choice if we can get residue to flow. Field cultivator seems to do a more even job, not ridging but lumpiness and moisture level. It is also 20% wider then disc and if i can stay in the seat, 8-9 mph is no problem where disc we have to limit to 6 mph or so. Personally i like fall strip till more then all the tillage tools in the world but when working with family we still do some of both.
As far as the disc if for building roads, 4wd tractor running 2-3 times over a field do that same thing and then some. That is truly one of the main reasons i like fall strip till, seedbed is so mellow it's not even funny.
Edited by NEILFarmer 5/24/2013 22:03
|
|
| |
|
Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | rank - 5/24/2013 20:00
Hitting stones costs parts and labor. Picking stones costs labor.
... and parts and fuel and...
Edited by Ben in the Basin 5/24/2013 23:44
 (rock pile with loader and picker.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 rock pile with loader and picker.jpg (32KB - 723 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Ohio | Ben in the Basin - 5/24/2013 23:43
rank - 5/24/2013 20:00
Hitting stones costs parts and labor. Picking stones costs labor.
... and parts and fuel and...
THAT Sir is a HUGH JASS rock pile.... |
|
| |
|
Iowa | 1) pick up your rocks/ problem solved
2) discs make slabs/ribbons in many soils even when those soils are fit for a field cult
3) discs make ridges if not continually watched by a good operator
4) discs take MUCH more maintenance
5) disc blades break in rocks
6) discs PACK
In "flat and black" corn belt soils, discs belong out back in the fence row FOR SURE. If we were still discing in 2013, we wouldn't have hardly any fieldwork done. I doubt we've had a day this spring that the soils have been dry enough not to slab like crazy; a disc this spring would have ruined every seedbed it touched.
Machinery technology has moved beyond the disc. We left discs and 125 bu corn back in the '70's. |
|
| |
|
Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | funfarmr - 5/24/2013 22:22
THAT Sir is a HUGH JASS rock pile....
It's getting there. It's taken us two years to get it that big.
I should mention that we use disks for almost all tillage. They work well on our soils, and a Wishek is about the only tool that will survive some of this ground without breaking right away. A chisel plow and field cultivator work well to bring the rocks up for picking.
|
|
| |
|
Eastern Ont | Tommy - 5/25/2013 05:55 1) pick up your rocks/ problem solved
Tommy
Thats all well and good
But the frost action brings a new crop of rocks every year
Cant pick what we dont see
We tried an RTS the last couple of years, they work OK,
Tried an Amazone this spring, we were impressed
http://www.amazone.net/572.asp |
|
| |
|
West Central Alberta Coldest, wettest edge | I won't use the word study, as it is only observational. But when it is wet in the spring, I use a disc very sparingly, and If I do parts of a field with a disc, all summer I can see the drastic difference, and the line is not gradual, it is exactly where the disc ended. But that may be a here thing too. Best tool here is a plow, the only uncompactor I have. Do a perfect job of plowing, and no other tool is required. |
|
| |
|
Ohio | Alberta Farmer - 5/25/2013 11:48
I won't use the word study, as it is only observational. But when it is wet in the spring, I use a disc very sparingly, and If I do parts of a field with a disc, all summer I can see the drastic difference, and the line is not gradual, it is exactly where the disc ended. But that may be a here thing too. Best tool here is a plow, the only uncompactor I have. Do a perfect job of plowing, and no other tool is required.
Plows, as in mold board plows, are obsolete around here. Theres a select few people that use them. I'm young enough (20) that i don't ever remember us plowing. I remember probably 10 or so years ago we got it out to tear up an alfalfa field. Neither plow has been out of the barn since. We have a no till drill now and just no till beans into the allfalfa VS tearing it up. Even the chisel plow hardly gets used since we strip till all the corn ground. |
|
| |
|
| 1. Spring plow parallel to the fences.
2. Disk 30 to 45 degrees from the plow furrows
3. Disk disk 60 to 90 degrees from the previous disk passes
4. Disk (before adding the spring tooth on the back of the disk) at a different angle then the previous disk passes
5. FC with spring tooth either parallel or at right angles to the planned rows.
6. Plant parallel to the fences.
Gerald J. |
|
| |
|
Eastern Ont | Have you got shares in a fuel company? |
|
| |
|
Ohio | ayrporte - 5/25/2013 22:23
Have you got shares in a fuel company?
My thoughts exactly. I would think the soil would be powder after all of that. |
|
| |
|
SEON | funfarmr - 5/26/2013 00:48
ayrporte - 5/25/2013 22:23
Have you got shares in a fuel company?
My thoughts exactly. I would think the soil would be powder after all of that.
He is spring plowing...presumably to reduce erosion but I won't put words in Gerald's mouth. I moldboard old sod in July - Aug after hay is taken off then plant wheat Sept 15 - 21. I do the same thing without the FC. The FC just brings the sod back up. It takes that much disking to get the sod broke up. 6" of gravely clay loam on bedrock here.
Edited by rank 5/26/2013 18:01
|
|
| |
|
Eastern Ont | Try an amzone or lemken Usuallly one pass 2 at the most Keeps the stones down http://www.amazone.co.uk/agricultural-products.asp |
|
| |
Disk-vs-field cultivator
