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open vs closed center hydraulics?
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MZ1
Posted 5/17/2013 09:13 (#3101862)
Subject: open vs closed center hydraulics?


N Illinois (I39 & US 30)
What is the difference? I have John Deeres and am thinking about getting a Case IH which is open. What do I look for as far as changes to implements etc?
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hillfarmer
Posted 5/17/2013 09:15 (#3101865 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: RE: open vs closed center hydraulics?



open center "gear pump " oil is always flowing

just have to watch the oil temp when running hydraulic motors
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pbutler
Posted 5/17/2013 09:30 (#3101891 - in reply to #3101865)
Subject: RE: open vs closed center hydraulics?



Macon, IL
For implements and such not much.

If you are running vacs or spray pumps you may need to make some changes. Remove orificies-change bypass settings, etc.
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tim4870
Posted 5/17/2013 10:03 (#3101921 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: Re: open vs closed center hydraulics?


Southern MN
I had the same question not too long ago, and found a great writeup of the difference in an older NAT thread: http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=43514
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earp
Posted 5/17/2013 11:10 (#3102008 - in reply to #3101921)
Subject: Re: open vs closed center hydraulics?



Manila, Ar
if you go to open center hydraulics.........i bet you regret it........JMO I never heard of anyone going from JD to CASE IH.......LOL
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JohnW
Posted 5/17/2013 11:33 (#3102029 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: RE: open vs closed center hydraulics?


NW Washington
Which CaseIH tractor are you getting that has a open center system. I think all larger CaseIH tractors since Case and IH joined have used closed center pressure and flow controlled hydraulic systems. They had moved away from open center systems before they merged.
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Larry in AB
Posted 5/17/2013 13:09 (#3102134 - in reply to #3102029)
Subject: RE: open vs closed center hydraulics?


Alberta, Canada
My 2090 is a 1978 and its closed center. Possibly some of the smaller tractors under 100hp maybe open center.
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MNredfarmer
Posted 5/17/2013 13:22 (#3102152 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: Re: open vs closed center hydraulics?


IH has been closed center since the later 86 series and I can't think of a Case IH that is open center.

Edit: I just remembered that the little utilities are open center. such as 685-885

Edited by MNredfarmer 5/17/2013 13:26
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Plow79
Posted 5/17/2013 14:13 (#3102208 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: RE: open vs closed center hydraulics?



Chilliwack BC
It depends on the option package as well as the model. For a while if you wanted a Maxxum, and wanted it to be open station, you could only get an open centre pump. We have a 2010? Maxxum 125 open station that's closed centre, but the value edition of the same tractor is open centre.

Even Deere, their small frame, 7030, open station, non-premiums were open centre. Be careful in your comparisons, and sweat the details.
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funfarmr
Posted 5/17/2013 15:09 (#3102269 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: Re: open vs closed center hydraulics?


Ohio
non premium 6030 series were open center as well. I'm pretty sure closed was optional on both the 6030 and 7030 non premium tractors...didn't matter if it had a cab or was an open station.
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Fla Veggie Farmer
Posted 5/17/2013 15:18 (#3102276 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: RE: open vs closed center hydraulics?


Southeast Florida
There are way to many variables in this posting to answer this properly. What JD are trading? Everything older than a 60 series is closed center hydraulics. JD tractors newer than 55-60 series could either be PFC or open center? Case IH could be open or PFC in most medium size models today other than the garden tractors or Mexican built which will be open center. We need to know the exact model with the letter on the hood to determine open or PFC today.

Edited by Fla Veggie Farmer 5/17/2013 15:24
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Omar
Posted 5/17/2013 20:28 (#3102609 - in reply to #3101862)
Subject: RE: open vs closed center hydraulics?


Elmira, Ontario

Open centre is fine if you are doing one thing at a time. The open centre refers to the valve stack allowing the oil just to flow back to sump when no valve is in use. Since full flow always goes through the valve stack, the pump can be simple like a gear pump. When a valve is in use, the oil is blocked from sump and is forced to the work circuit. If two or more valves are used, then the oil will go to the easiest circuit till enough pressure builds up to actuate the second circuit. That's why these are only good for one function at a time. Once a circuit can't handle all the pump flow (cylinder at end of stroke), there will be a relief valve in the circuit that will bypass the excess oil to protect the pump. This bypass causes a lot of heat in a hurry.

Closed centre valves deadhead the oil. This requires a pump that can destroke when no valve is in use. The older Deeres and others used a simple radial piston pump that just wouldn't let the pistons travel inside the pump once high pressure was attained. These pistons would only travel to pump oil when the pressure dropped (valve in use, leak in system). The systems could be sized larger than required by one valve and could easily handle flow controls. This allows multiple functions to be handled at once.

Pressure flow compensated systems add the capability for the pump to "power down" when not needed. They include a signal line from the valve that sends a pressure boost to the pump control system to tell it to power up to push enough oil until full flow or high pressure standby is attained. These are usually axial piston pumps where a swash plate would control the stroke of the pistons by changing its angle. By reducing the standby pressure during idle periods, less power use and heat generation occurs.

These are the basics, but there are control variations that can add features to various systems. So you can have gear pumps supplying closed centre valves (think Gleaner combines in the 80's; some tractors today). When a valve is used, a bypass port ahead of the valve is blocked forcing the oil into the valve stack. Some open centre valves include flow controls. These are hybrid systems designed to allow the use of the simpler and more compact gear pumps while still giving the features needed by mid sized utility tractors.

Bottom line is basic stuff like lifting and lowering implements one function at a time can be handled by any system without change. The challenge is if you need to run a planter air system and raise the planter without changing pump flow. It can be done on an open centre system, but you have to do some plumbing gymnastics. I'd recommend a pto pump instead.

If you have something with its own valve running off a power beyond port (basically a live line to the hydraulic pump), it has to be set up correctly to work with the pump. A loader valve is the most common situation.

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