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SW MINNESOTA | Has anyone run both case cvt and jd ivt transmissions? Is one more user friendly? Does one simply work better than the other? |
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| AGCO CVT.
If you're looking for one that is simply more effecient and user friendly, 'nuff said.
Good luck,
Jack |
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Roaming the plains | User friendly? Can you prove the efficiency claim?
I have run all of them and the Deere is the easiest to put in gear and go but I like the Case for controlling speeds and the handle to run other functions. The AGCO ones are complicated to dial in and get the performance out of put perform nice once you get it figured out. |
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Itasca, Texas | We own an AGCO one and I would say its far from the easiest to operate. |
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| Yea, because putting the shuttle lever in forward or reverse and then pushing it (or the lever that your right hand is resting on) ahead to speed up or back to slow down is really difficult.... I sometimes wonder how you people figured out how to drive a vehicle if you find driving an AGCO CVT hard. Oh wait, one button push and it will drive exactly like your pickup, push the pedal down to speed up, let it up to slow down. Just because you can customize it to do anything you want, doesn't mean you have to or even need to. Just sit down, shuttle it to the direction you want to go, and go.
I can't speak for the case, but between the IVT and CVT, hands down the CVT wins in my opinion. As far as efficiency goes, the only way to "prove it" would be two tractors weighted the exact same, same tires, same field, same implement, same everything.... Outside of that, it is a given that every gear mesh power is transfered through creates 1-2% parasitic loss, count the gear meshes in each. |
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VA | Fendt started experimenting with them in the 60's - put them out in '96 and everyone else is playing catch up. I like mine. Don't see how you could make it simpler. |
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Eastern Ont | I have a Fendt and have compared it in limited fashion to JD, NH and CIH and MF (agco). I'm not sure how much simpler and easier you can get with the Fendt CVT operation. I prefer it over the MF (Agco) and of course the others IMHO. |
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| I have both Case and John deere and both have there good and bad. I like the 3 ranges that the case has, when you pull the handle back all the way the tractor stops but the Cvt just is not as smooth as the Ivt. Good luck |
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Wi | rednyellow - 4/11/2013 20:37 We own an AGCO one and I would say its far from the easiest to operate.
Thats because you have an Agco. They tried making their tractors so you could "jump in and run" because people didn't want to take a day to learn the Fendt and get comfortable. The Agco is simple less intimidating, it is a PITA to operate compared to the Fendt.
fhb - 4/11/2013 21:04 I have a Fendt and have compared it in limited fashion to JD, NH and CIH and MF (agco). I'm not sure how much simpler and easier you can get with the Fendt CVT operation. I prefer it over the MF (Agco) and of course the others IMHO.
x2. The Fendt will take the longest to learn, however I see no need for being able to "jump in and run" a tractor anymore. There are so many settings and features people need to be aware of, it really takes an entire day of learning them to get a feel for which on is best.
I have ran the Deere IVT in a 7830, CNH CVT in a 225 mini mag, Agco in older DTa's and in the newer DTbs and 8600s, as well as the Fendts in the older and newer models. If I had to pick on to live with it would be the Fendt.
Deere and CNH give you the "hydro" feeling which I do not care for but many people find it easier. I find it less than desireable. Most of the work we do involves a lot of roading, so I prefer operating in pedal mode with TMS, I found the others offerings in those categories to be poor. The Agco/MF in pedal mode is fine, but the joystick is what sets it apart. Even when in pedal mode, being able to have the preset cruises at your finger tip ready for selection then just a simple flick of the lever to resume. The Agco is very finnicky at engagin preset cruises and setting them is not as nice due to having to go through the Dot matrix display and making sure you are in all of the right places. The Fendt also just allows you to set your cruise at the current speed. I miss that everytime I'm in an Agco/MF. Makes all kinds of fieldwork much more desireable when you can just set it without having to actually scroll through parameters to adjust what you predict will be the speed you want. The shuttle on the stick is nice too. Your hand is there already so it's just an added convieniance. The feature I probably like most through for hauling manure or hauling silage, is the thumb control for sensitivity. The Agco/MF is a PITA to adjust this, you basically have to set it and forget it. With the Fendt you just flick it up for on the road since you want instant response, and then dial it back down for running next to the chopper and such to allow smoother more precise control.
I'd pick Fendt, but there are many more reasons than simple CVT operation. Simple to me is different than simple to many. You have to be willing to think outside the box to run the Fendt. if you want to just set your throttle and drive like its a hydro then buy a Deere or CNH. I know people who insist on running their CVT's in "powershift"mode. kind of defeats the purpose but oh well. |
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Peace River, AB, Canada | Fendt hands down the best, but MF and Deutz got good "IVT's" also. |
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ND | Doesn't matter how good fendt is, see them at big iron and off they go to the next show. No dealers around and on top of it all ugly with a faded green paint job. |
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| Agree with almost everything you say durallymax. No need to set preset speeds (engine or ground speed) on the Massey's in the screen, all can be done on the console. |
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NW KS/ SC ID | The MF one is a Fendt CVT with different controls. |
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Ohio | johnypop - 4/11/2013 22:52
Doesn't matter how good fendt is, see them at big iron and off they go to the next show. No dealers around and on top of it all ugly with a faded green paint job.
X2 the paint sucks...looks like someone took a $h!t and wiped it all over the tractor. |
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Good Ol' East Texas | I have ran the Case CVT, and Fendt for several years and recently a Deere IVT on demo. You have more control of your speed in the Fendt. Case CVT that we ran for 3 years was junk and hopefully never own one again. Fendt is not hard to learn drive. I can show someone in five minutes how to drive one to haul silage. I never could get the hang of the Deere under the chopper. The response on the Deere just wasn't there like the Fendt. Case and Deere if barely push both brake pedals you stop unlike Fendt where you can control your braking better.
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Wi | funfarmr - 4/11/2013 22:23
johnypop - 4/11/2013 22:52
Doesn't matter how good fendt is, see them at big iron and off they go to the next show. No dealers around and on top of it all ugly with a faded green paint job.
X2 the paint sucks...looks like someone took a $h!t and wiped it all over the tractor.
That is why they offer a wide array of color options and beauty packages to suit those who judge by color. Black, Blue Steel, Black cherry, fir green, orange and I am sure many other could be ordrered if you wished. The beauty packages come with stainless grilles , muffler shrouds and various other added touches inside and outside the cab.
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2011-02-19 12.46.10-227006641.jpg (73KB - 366 downloads)
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fendt_5-1867609145.jpg (59KB - 344 downloads)
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Wi | CMWS - 4/11/2013 22:11
Agree with almost everything you say durallymax. No need to set preset speeds (engine or ground speed) on the Massey's in the screen, all can be done on the console.
On the newer ones you can push and hold the cruise button to set the desired speed. our older dtb is very finnicky about how you do things. I also do not like where the dials are, too many times I get phone calls wondering why the tractor wont go fast or the cruise is messed up simply due to people bumping them. The massey console looks like they just threw everything on it and called it good. The Fendt is neat, organized and you can rest you are without worries. |
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Flora IL | Typically if u hit both brake pedals ur wanting to stop. Not sure why the case sucked so bad. But id like to hear. Ive just test drove one. |
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Portland, ND | I have only drive the case and JD, and each had advantages. I like the 3 ranges with the case over 2 in the deere, but I hated the amount of noise the CVT created. My IVT is much quieter. I also dislike the hydro feeling, like another poster mentioned. |
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Wi | CaseFarmer - 4/12/2013 04:57
Typically if u hit both brake pedals ur wanting to stop. Not sure why the case sucked so bad. But id like to hear. Ive just test drove one.
Only one in the Fendt when you get dual circuit braking.
I can think of many many times when I would want to hit the brakes to control the tractor without stopping. Dont have to hit them as much though, the Fendt really lets you hols yourself back with the trans, add the exhaust braje on top of that and its nice. |
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Good Ol' East Texas | Constant problems with it. The Case CVT we had constantly over heated and Case had no answers. On the braking going down the road sometimes just to help slow down going down hills or turns. |
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| x2. Takes a little more time to get accustomed to but once you commit yourself to doing so, the control logic and layout is very slick on the Fendts, top-notch. Mechanically speaking, if you strip the paint and identification off each one, there is simply a lot to like about the mechanical simplicity (and therefore theoretical efficiency) of the AGCO/Fendt CVT and it would probably be the one most people would pick based simply on construction and mechanical design. |
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Itasca, Texas | CMWS - 4/11/2013 20:57
Yea, because putting the shuttle lever in forward or reverse and then pushing it (or the lever that your right hand is resting on) ahead to speed up or back to slow down is really difficult.... I sometimes wonder how you people figured out how to drive a vehicle if you find driving an AGCO CVT hard. Oh wait, one button push and it will drive exactly like your pickup, push the pedal down to speed up, let it up to slow down. Just because you can customize it to do anything you want, doesn't mean you have to or even need to. Just sit down, shuttle it to the direction you want to go, and go.
I can't speak for the case, but between the IVT and CVT, hands down the CVT wins in my opinion. As far as efficiency goes, the only way to "prove it" would be two tractors weighted the exact same, same tires, same field, same implement, same everything.... Outside of that, it is a given that every gear mesh power is transfered through creates 1-2% parasitic loss, count the gear meshes in each.
Yeah you tell one of my hands to get in there and operate at 6.5mph and watch what happens. The deere that I've driven was way easier to setup. I own way more AGCO products than deere but I just don't like all the SV BS. Never been in a Fendt but deeres seemed the easiest for me. |
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Peace River, AB, Canada | Yes, correct!
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Near-north Ontario, French River | Did you really just say the AGCO CVT is difficult to operate? All you do is move the shuttle shift into forward and push the joystick ahead like a hydrostat, doesn't really get much easier. If a guy wants to start using presets/cruise control etc its about a 5 minute learning curve, press a button to choose your preset and turn a small knob to adjust the preset. |
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Flora IL | Oh okay.. i guess going in blind to a cvt
Would be different compared to u being used to a different model.
Thats weird on overheating tho |
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Roaming the plains | He hasn't told you the whole story either. |
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Roaming the plains | Not quite what I meant, the AGCO was the most difficult of the 3 to dial in and run. Deere is close though with setting the rpms in each mode. I don't like how you jump around with the SV knobs, displays, and armrest controls of the AGCO. I do like the left hand shuttle the best on their design. The Case is the easiest to set speeds and throttles.
All in my opinion, others will vary. All 3 companies make a good cvt and do what they are supposed to. |
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| durallymax - 4/11/2013 21:30
The Fendt will take the longest to learn, however I see no need for being able to "jump in and run" a tractor anymore. There are so many settings and features people need to be aware of, it really takes an entire day of learning them to get a feel for which on is best.
There's a lot of truth to that. A while back I was helping a guy get a big square baler going reliably in corn stalks and he had borrowed a fairly new Challenger tractor to run it that week. Along with making the appropriate adjustments to the baler, I also dicked around with the tractor and changed the engine governor settings to favor the PTO speed more and the ground speed less (two different settings). The next day the operator gave me all sorts of praise citing that the baler ran much smoother and that the adjustments made to it made a world of difference. The problem was that the adjustments to the baler would have had no effect on how smooth it ran!
I finally showed him what I did, but it just goes to show that you can certainly jump in some tractors and go, but there are small settings that can make a world of difference on how well the tractor does the job. |
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| If they can't figure it out after a simple "ok, this isn't the same old powershift tractor you're used to, no need to touch the throttle or shift gears. Just put the tractor in forward and push the lever ahead until you hit 6.5mph, then quit pushing it and it will hold that speed" instruction, you should find new help.
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Wi | Jim Beam - 4/12/2013 07:50 Not quite what I meant, the AGCO was the most difficult of the 3 to dial in and run. Deere is close though with setting the rpms in each mode. I don't like how you jump around with the SV knobs, displays, and armrest controls of the AGCO. I do like the left hand shuttle the best on their design. The Case is the easiest to set speeds and throttles. All in my opinion, others will vary. All 3 companies make a good cvt and do what they are supposed to.
This is why the Agco/MF is not a good respresentation of what the Fendt CVT has to offer. Its a cluster screw to operate to say the least.
rednyellow - 4/12/2013 07:01 Yeah you tell one of my hands to get in there and operate at 6.5mph and watch what happens. The deere that I've driven was way easier to setup. I own way more AGCO products than deere but I just don't like all the SV BS. Never been in a Fendt but deeres seemed the easiest for me.
Simple, program a 6.5mph cruise with TMS on and tell them push this button. No need to move the stick. |
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DV, NV | I'm very happy with our Magnum 190 CVT. There is some validity to the hydro noise claim, but I find it much easier to operate than our neighbors 7920 IVT. Have a MF ??? coming in a few weeks on a rental, but I probably won't see a Fendt for some time. FWIW, I know of fewer issues with the Case tractors than the Deere's in our neighborhood. The Case doesn't like cold weather, even with trans heater plugged in, you have to wait for the oil warm up for a while. Supposedly a newer blend of oil in the trans will help this, I haven't flushed mine yet as I had just done it before the new oil was released.
I think you're splitting hairs to find faults in all the newer tractors with the variable transmissions, especially for speed sensitive implements. |
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Good Ol' East Texas | And what's the whole story? The transmission would just overheat got the pictures of it somewhere. Case said and still say that we are lying about it cause they have never had that problem. I'll see if I can find the picture of it somewhere and post the warning on here for you.
It would get hot going down the road, running a big square baler, a Vermeer rake, discing, mowing, and anything else we did. We kept the radiators clean but still the transmission was the only thing that got hot. They spent thousands throwing parts at it with no luck fixing it under warranty. |
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Flora IL | So what happened to the tractor |
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The Internet | All they have to do is turn the SV dial around until it says 6.5mph then press the button, how much easier do they want it? I really am struggling to think of an easier way to operate anything. Do they have to close their eyes when they talk too? |
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Good Ol' East Texas | It's somewhere in Pennsylvania or that's where it was sold too.
It was Puma 225 and everything it did our Puma 210 did also without problems. Just the 210 was a powershift.
Edited by customfarming 4/12/2013 10:39
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Flora IL | Guess u were lucky. Ive talked to several and they have not had any issues. Sorry for ur luck |
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Nova Scotia | wow lots of talk lots of points , hobby 95 stay away from the CNH cvt , the thing pulses trying to figure out which gear to be in at certian loads at certian speeds, if your choice is JD vs Case , go Deere. if you are open to trying something different, try a Fendt, both MF and Challenger have the same CVT as Fendt , but the Fendt is by far the best Tractor to drive period! the moment you decide to go CVT the price is leveled out for all brands more or less so go with the best , and i truely believe this , i was a Deere man , Bleed green , i spent 3 days in a Fendt two years ago , now i got two and rest will get changed as well, i challenge anyone to give me an honest day in a Fendt , leave your color behind , take the bit of time to learn and you'll agree there are the nicest to run period! |
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Wi | Chris 924 - 4/12/2013 17:16 wow lots of talk lots of points , hobby 95 stay away from the CNH cvt , the thing pulses trying to figure out which gear to be in at certian loads at certian speeds, if your choice is JD vs Case , go Deere. if you are open to trying something different, try a Fendt, both MF and Challenger have the same CVT as Fendt , but the Fendt is by far the best Tractor to drive period! the moment you decide to go CVT the price is leveled out for all brands more or less so go with the best , and i truely believe this , i was a Deere man , Bleed green , i spent 3 days in a Fendt two years ago , now i got two and rest will get changed as well, i challenge anyone to give me an honest day in a Fendt , leave your color behind , take the bit of time to learn and you'll agree there are the nicest to run period!
I noticed a lot of "hunting" in the CNH CVT when running it. Just seemed very slow. Maybe I was not operating it correctly, but I could not get the extreme decelleration out of it like I could with the Fendt CVT.
The price of Deere and Fendt are close, CNH and MF are close but are lower than Deere and Fendt. IIRC from the pricing I have done past and present a similar Fendt is usually 40-50k higher than an MF/Agco, however after our terrible experiences with the MF/Agcos it has become clear to the others why there is the big price spread.
The reasons people don't like Fendt are, too complicated/don't want to know how to operate them, ugly color, poor dealer support. I really have not heard many other reasons. Many did not like the small cab on the older models, but on the newer ones the complaints are mostly related to people not recieving the proper training, or not wanting it. Dealer support can be a concern for many, however it seems Fendt's do not need the dealer as much. Still need one within a reasonable distance though because nothing is flawless/bulletproof. |
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Modena, Wisconsin | One other consideration on the cost is that the first three years or 3000 hours of services are paid for by warranty on the Fendt. I prefer the Fendt in the field and the other feature I really like is engine braking. |
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Flora IL | Does fendent have a dealer in illinois. |
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Nova Scotia | I would imagin, go to there web site , I'm sure they have a dealer Locator , how many hp are you looking for , and what are the main jobs the tractor would be doing ? |
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Wi | Gunner - 4/12/2013 18:45 One other consideration on the cost is that the first three years or 3000 hours of services are paid for by warranty on the Fendt. I prefer the Fendt in the field and the other feature I really like is engine braking.
The free service is something many overlook. It's not necessarily a deal breaker, but it is something that helps ease the pain.
CaseFarmer - 4/12/2013 20:39 Does fendent have a dealer in illinois.
AC McCartney is the only listed one, but they do not push them at all. I've never seen one and our salesman from there gets very defensive when I mention Fendt because he pushes the 8600s. The 8600s have caused nothing but headaches and strained relationships for us, and the Tier 4 is not proving to be much better.
It comes down to application. Some others have made good points over the years, do you really need all of the technology that is in a Fendt? The answer for a lot of the people on here is no. If you come to WI you will find Fendt's everywhere, there are a lot of dealers who all have good service and many units ready to go, however that is our farming economy. Wisconsin is full of dairy farms, that is where the Fendt's shine and is where you will find the majority of the Fendt's in our area. There are a few others who have them, but the reason the service and support has been boosted is due to the demand for them when it comes to manure hauling and forage harvesting. High speed, large load road transport. Any tractor can go dig dirt all day, the MF will work fine for that, but the technologies in the Fendt shine when you need to be safe a reliable on the road. Do you need dual circuit braking with ABS, stability control, exhaust braking, secondary steering pump, or air brakes to go plant corn? No, you need something that works well in the field. Many brands do that, the Fendt's added features shine on the road, those in the grain belt simply do not need these features. Yes I know many of your travel long distances, but there is a difference between driving to the field and running you tractor on the road all day long. |
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Jd ivt vs case cvt
