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buying broken mouth cows.
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hillrunner
Posted 3/17/2013 18:22 (#2971945)
Subject: buying broken mouth cows.


Considering looking into buying a small group of bred -broken mouth cows for the summer. The hope would be to calve them out this spring and sell everything in the fall. I have a 10 acres of alfalfa but any other feed would need to be bought. Would I need to add corn to the diet to get them ready for the pound cow market in the fall? How many pairs could I realistically feed off 10 acres? (assuming we at least get some rain)

I have an off farm business and am looking at this as another step toward my goal of farming. My dad has about 30 cow calf pairs and I would lean on his experience a bunch. I'm not expecting to make a bunch of money but It's always more enjoyable if you can turn some sort of profit. IS the profit potential worth the effort or is the hay better off sent to market at these prices?

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Markwright
Posted 3/17/2013 18:36 (#2971971 - in reply to #2971945)
Subject: RE: buying broken mouth cows.


New Mexico
short wean calves.
cows will need some corn ( 5 to 7 bu per cow ) or dg's to put on a touch of flesh where a packer likes em.
harvest cow market generally peaks July to 1st part of August ( expect a $20 cwt up from today's $80 cwt cull cows )

young side brokens are better than old or wore outs.

you want that last 1 foot of topline just before their tail to be strait as possible with no divetts ( vertebrae divetts ).
the straiter and smoother that topline is, the more physiologic youth she has.

short solids may be a better deal for ya if you can find em.
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scottcupps
Posted 3/17/2013 22:01 (#2972596 - in reply to #2971945)
Subject: Re: buying broken mouth cows.


The Shell Knob Basin (Southwest Missouri)
broken mouth cows with younger calf hood tags are prob the best deal... had a buddy buying broke mouth cows that apparently came off a rock patch or somewhere where there was a bunch of junk or something.... there calfhood tags proved they were 7's and 8's... but becasue they were missing teeth salebarn sold them as BM and he stole them... i know thats unrealistic to look for... just saying... you can find some decent looking more youthful cows that are mouthed BM and still will put on some weight without all the store bought feed if theyve got teeth at all... the prob id be worried about is that grazing straight alflafa without true strip grazing doesnt run many cows... need to strip and make sure they get off the last strip when you turn them on the next becasue of the carbohydrate recharge of the alfalfa.... have to treat it like a hay crop.... graze her to the crown, and get off if you want production.... but if you want to do the work, would prob put a couple body condition scores or so on 10 pairs during the growing season if managed right... and id really consider pairs.... you know exactly what her bag will look like while nursing and youll also know exactly what calf your getting for not alot more.... just saying.... nothing sucks more than buying a cow to pound out after cutting her coupon off... and then having her coupon be a non growing quarter longhorn quarter belted galloway cross rat tail... and jsut like mark said.... get her sold in the summer before everybody starts preging spring cows and culling opens which floods and tanks the weigh cow market....
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hillrunner
Posted 3/18/2013 12:06 (#2973627 - in reply to #2971971)
Subject: RE: buying broken mouth cows.


Is there any money in buying solids that are ready to calve and selling them bred in the fall? I am trying to avoid buying hay all winter long. thanks-
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hillrunner
Posted 3/18/2013 12:31 (#2973686 - in reply to #2972596)
Subject: Re: buying broken mouth cows.


I hadn't thought of buying pairs , I can see how that would eliminate some risk. I also wouldn't have to feed them while waiting for them to calve. I would be keeping the cows in the yard and baling the alfalfa, usually get 4 cuttings but things were pretty light the last couple of years as dry as it's been.
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scottcupps
Posted 3/18/2013 12:52 (#2973737 - in reply to #2973686)
Subject: Re: buying broken mouth cows.


The Shell Knob Basin (Southwest Missouri)
if youre already going to bale it, im just going to be blunt and honest..... you truthful might make more selling the alfalfa... without the "fun"(work) and risk of running old cows.... i mean we're in a situation around here where a well managed beef operation cant afford to give what even decent alfalfa is worth.... and thats not because of a hay shortage at all... its because of an alfalfa shortage.... for dairy quality its trading over 330 a ton adjusted to 88% dm .... not to mention you don't have the huge initial investment in comparison to profitability ( a bm weigh cow will cost 1000 with a chance to make 300 or so if your going to have to turn them that fast... and not to mention if your not hedged and the market falls for reasons other than seasonality, you could stand to make nothing.... but if you've got the alfafla to sell, its hard to lose money).... just stuff to think about
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hillrunner
Posted 3/18/2013 17:23 (#2974166 - in reply to #2973737)
Subject: Re: buying broken mouth cows.


That is part of what I'm asking here. Whether or not the potential reward is worth the risk. I realize small herds are easy to lose money on. Losing just 1 animal can remove most of the potential profit.

From what I am reading , I probably would not recoup the hay profits back out of the cows. If I can average $200 a ton and pull 4-5 tons an acre this summer I am looking at around $9000 in hay. Most of that being profit. If I put that into cows, I doubt I get much benefit for the work/risk.

Thanks for the comments.
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scottcupps
Posted 3/18/2013 17:56 (#2974242 - in reply to #2974166)
Subject: Re: buying broken mouth cows.


The Shell Knob Basin (Southwest Missouri)
couldn't have said it better myself... always hate to discourage anyone from entering the cattle business, but in your situation, what you have to remember is if you lose one animal, that could be a 15%-20% death loss, and thus your entire profit!... If a 1,000 cow ranch loses one, that's a O.1% death loss... which has a little bit different effects on the profitability index.... also have to remember, if it gets dry again (which i sure hope it doesnt.....but then again, thats what we said in '11) and you end up not growing enough to keep the cows fed... purchased feed will eat your profits up in a heart beat, not to mention, the cow market will probably be lower because of a heavy supply because drought always makes short bred cows come to town as weigh cows!.... but if that situation does happen, the little bit of drought stressed alfalfa youde be able to raise should be extremely high quality.... and just plain worth more because of wide spread lack of feed due to the drought..... so profitability of the forage wouldn't be all that much lower.... jsut another thing to think about....

Edited by scottcupps 3/18/2013 18:05
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hillrunner
Posted 3/18/2013 19:32 (#2974457 - in reply to #2974242)
Subject: Re: buying broken mouth cows.


My dad stopped by tonight with some balance sheets from his last 3 years. He was in agreement with you that the hay is better brought to market. I think I'll hold off on the cows till he tires of doing it and I have access to the pastures.

Thanks for the friendly advice.
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scottcupps
Posted 3/18/2013 20:04 (#2974524 - in reply to #2974457)
Subject: Re: buying broken mouth cows.


The Shell Knob Basin (Southwest Missouri)
Anytime hillrunner!!... and good pasture changes the economics of everything!.... hope your very successful when that day comes!
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