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Perth county, Ontario | Have a JD 750 drill and this fall we had the bearings in the closing wheels begin to fail, adding one more thing to the winter repair list. We are going to replace all the bearings since I don't see the problem correcting itself. Have been pricing parts from the local dealer and then was looking around on Shoup's website and they have a bearing kit that will be 3-4 dollars cheaper per row than the local dealer. I am wondering if anybody has any experience with these parts from Shoup and how they stand up? Also they have an update kit that moves the bearing out of the actual closing wheel so it is not in the dirt as much. Has anyone made this update and if so what is your opinion of it? Is it worth the extra money? Thanks for all replies |
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Martinsville, Ohio | They are OK. Got the same even cheaper from http://reskillings.com/ All parts came in JD boxes for us. Can't guarantee the same price and same parts but will go back there again.
Ed |
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| My personal experience has been negative with Shoup. I went to them for parts for my JD planter twice, once for the new style adjustable guage wheel arms and again for disc openers w/ bearings. I won't go back. I don't care how cheap they are. |
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| There kits are the cheap eastern european bearings. I'd take a set of the bearings off, cross-reference it to timken and buy all you need at a wholesaler myself. Eddie |
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southern Illinois | try slone express, they are like shoup but ran by a john deere dealer and usually a little cheaper than shoup on the same parts, both are good for jd parts |
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Macon, IL | I have had good luck with Shoup as a company-some of their parts are not always up to standards of some other vendor but I use them here and there-when the price difference is enough. Same thing with Sloan Express-I think they get the same parts.
Edited by pbutler 12/18/2007 13:42
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West Michigan | I have been able to go to my JD dealer with shoups price list and JD will give some on price if I order JD.
Tim B |
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Schlegel Farms, Hagerstown Indiana | I've had good luck with Shoup over the years. I was surprised to see some of the negative comments here...usually they get very good revues when people ask about them on these boards.
I've used them for planter drill (great plains) and combine parts for many years.
I split a JD 7000 planter (probably 15 years ago), put JD seed & fertilizer disks on one half, and Shoup on the other, there was no difference in how they wore.
..............................................Mark |
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NW Tennessee | I've used quite a bit of Shoup parts and had no complaints. Re-built a corn head a few years ago and used chains, sprockets, deck plates, snapping rolls, etc. and was very pleased with them. I still get the majority of my parts from JD, I guess mainly because of the convenience, but I've never noticed inferior quality with Shoup. |
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East Central Nebraska | Thumbs up for Shoup. I've used them many times and have always had good luck. |
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| I'll second a vote for Skillings, they are very good people to work with, and the delivered to your door service is worth alot too! |
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Nevada, Iowa | Aye, me too!! |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | On the true "750" drill, the first original closing wheels arrangement was a long 5/8" diameter bolt through a tube welded on the arm, through some spacers then through 2 sealed ball bearings in the cast iron wheel with a flat sheet metal grease cap covering the outer end of the bolt/nut. (Version "1") This original arrangement did not hold up well in dirt so in the early 90's JD added a triple lip seal running on a steel sleeve on the inner side of the wheel. This second arrangement had a tapped RH or LH female thread in the tube welded to the arm. Used the same two sealed bearings and a special blue grease on the seal lips at assembly since there was no way to regrease them. (Version "2") On the 1560 version, Deere switched to tapered roller bearings at the top of the closing wheel arm with a long shaft down to the cast closing wheel with NO bearings in the wheel (Version "3") The reason I mention this is that it seems difficult/very expensive to change version 1 or 2 to veresion 3 as suggested in your original post. It seems like you would actually need to change everything including the closing wheel arm on back to the ground including the wheel itself. I would check out which version you have and what parts you are buying before placing an order. If you have version 1 you can change to version 2 at some cost. Downside is you still have ball bearings. This application really should be tapered roller bearings, in my opinion. Hope this helps understand the situation. Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere. There are a LOT of these drills out there. Jim at Dawn |
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central - east central Minnesota - | these guys remanufactured the assembly and got the bearing out of the dirt completely. Look on their website and look for closing wheel arm assembly. www.tsrparts.com http://www.tsrparts.com/straw-choppers-closing-wheel-arm.html |
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NC Kansas | Last fall I ran out of Shoup kits and had to go to JD for a couple. The bearings were made in China. The Shoup bearings were made in Japan. I don't know if there's any difference between the two, realistically, but the Shoup kits were about $8/kit cheaper. Running in the dirt like that, is there going to be much difference using a more expensive bearing? |
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| My experience with Shoups has been mixed. Haven't bought many parts from them but most were OK. Bought some battery boxes & a couple other replacement items for a 4020 that wouldn't fit worth crap.
Have also dealt with Sloan Express. Only had one problem with them & they went out of their wayl correcting the situation. |
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north central Oklahoma | Use them more for rebuilding planters and combines in off season, and local Deere dealer in time urgent seasons. Try to stock up on those items I know I will inevitably be using, but miss carrying everything in inventory. |
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South central Ks. | Can't be any worse than jd bearings, seems every new bearing from jd in the last year has said china on it, I'll take japan over china any day. |
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| That's why I seldom buy JD bearings. Prefer going to the local bearing supplier if at all possible. |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | For what it is worth, My old drills had the type 1 and type 2 wheels like Jim describes below. I found I could greatly increase the life of the type 1 ( bolt through the wheel with a HD sealed bearing on the exposed side) closer wheel. I found that removing the two flat washers next to the wheel and replace them with an IH disc drill, opener disc seal assy (metal spacer with rubber washer) . Adding this IH drill disc seal in effect double sealed the bearing against dirt /water and increased bearing life several times over the stock setup. Those IH seals are cheap and easy to install.
For the type 2 wheels with the extra 3-4 lip seal, I found that packing the grooves in the seal with JD poly urea grease and making sure the seal and wear ring were smooth and clean with a coating of Poly urea grease made them last several years.
I now have aftermarket spiked closing wheels with a single large ball bearing in each wheel. I was a bit suspicious of a single bearing running with a side load, but have had no failures in 5 ? years, and they do an excellent closing job in wet, long term, no till soil.. |
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| That is a good summary, Jim. One correction however: the "version 3" (60 & 90-series) with the bearing up in the arm, it uses a double-row ball bearing, not a tapered roller bearing. It is the same bearing that is in the gauge wheel.
And to be quite honest, neither Version 1 nor Version 2 held dirt out for very long. |
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| not all spoked closing wheels have heavy-duty bearings with good seals. This is a bit of chest-thumping, but the one that Jon Hagen alludes to is Exapta's Thompson wheel. |
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| Jon H gives good advice above. For actual replacements for the bearings themselves, those are extremely common bearings and can be had for ~ $1 - 2 apiece from any decent bearing supplier. None of them have seals that will handle much corrosion or dust. They are all single-lip seals. A high-quality NTN will last only a smidge longer than the cheapest Chinese bearing in that environment. These are bearings that should be used in clean environments, not closing wheels. |
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USA | With the treatment that Mr Shoup got from the new owners, I wouldn't buy anything from them, even if they were the last place on earth to have it. Bunch of scoundrals Imo. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Thanks for the information on the 1560 and later. As for chest thumping, Dawn also makes Curvetine II replacement closing wheels for the 750 drill. For Version 1 ours have ball bearings (US made Fafnir) but are spread, not sealed bearings and are Supercap regreaseable with our purgeable CR triple lip seal running on a nylon ring. This arrangement holds up reasonably well for the original design 750's. For the version 2 750's we have a direct replacement, RH & LH threaded male shaft setup with US made Timkin tapered roller bearings and the triple lip/nylon wear ring seal arrangement. This setup holds up very well and also has the Curvetine II type closing wheel which chips in the side wall yet has a broad shoulder so it works well in FC ground as well as no till or anything in between. Also extends life of closer arm bushings since almost no added spring pressure is required in most cases. Here's a photo: Jim at Dawn
 (Dawn CT-II on 750 Drill WI 0506 img2351.JPG)
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 Dawn CT-II on 750 Drill WI 0506 img2351.JPG (30KB - 244 downloads)
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So. IL | coup - 12/18/2007 22:19
With the treatment that Mr Shoup got from the new owners, I wouldn't buy anything from them, even if they were the last place on earth to have it. Bunch of scoundrals Imo.
Guess I am out of the look on this one. Can you explain the situation as you see it? |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | I gave my advice/ tips on getting the most life out of the stock 750 closing wheel bearings type 1-2, I did not post the brand of my aftermarket closing wheels because Jim gave good advice without suggesting a look at his product. Had someone asked, I would have posted the name of my closing wheels.
After Matt mentioned that my good working closing wheels were from his company, Jim then added that his company also makes this type of product, with a good description of what it would do.
I know these guys try very hard to give good advice without turning it into a sales pitch, but I very much appreciate their telling what they have that may fix a problem.
I think we are getting a lot of great information from these guys at no cost, and the mention of a product that may be the answer to the question is not out of line. I think these guys give a lot more than they get.
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| Jon,
Yes, I realize that sometimes people look askance at my links to Exapta's website or mention of products, and I really hesitated to mention the product by name in the above post given the recent chastising that Jim & I have received on this site (perhaps justifiably). I just wanted to be clear so that someone didn't buy a certain spoked closing wheel thinking it had more durable bearings than the Deere OEM configuration, only to get burned.
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| Did some employees buy it or an outsider? Who? |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | People get help on this site every day when they post a problem and a farmer / non farmer posts the web site of a person / company that has a fix for that problem, which is a good thing.
I don't see much difference when this information comes directly from the people involved in developing the parts, especially when they so freely offer their years of experience at no cost to us..
If one abused that fine line to promote one line of products, then a printed or electronic knuckle rapping is easy enough IMHO. |
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NE SD | Jon, Maybe you could help me out here. Do you have a lot of trouble with these bearings yourself? Two years ago we traded off our high acre 1850 that we had owned since it was new in 1997....actually we traded off two with pretty much the same amount of acres, but one was my uncle's and he didn't own it in the first 3 years of its life. We never had much trouble with these bearings. We used a good cleaner, and a press to put them together. We maybe lost one or two a year. Always kept a spare replacement on hand so the drill could keep going while fixing the other. Neighbors around us were having lots of trouble and still are today with their 50 series drills. Then again, I hear stories of them assembling the wheels on the tailgates of their pickups with hammres. Would storing them inside have helped? Ours ware always stored inside in the winter...then again, another guy that stores his in the same shed eventually bought the 90 series arms. Our problem was with the bushings that mounted the closing wheel arms to the units. They were wore out, and would fill up with dirt. Then they would hang up and have any pressure or even touch the ground. The only way to fix them was to pull the bushings. We made a puller and destroyed an air wrench one spring pulling 15-20 of them. BTW, we wish we would have kept ours. |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | I believe the inside storage has a lot to do with it., it seems sealed bearings wick in a lot of moisture from snow / frost / sweating / rain when outside.
I had good luck with the type 1 closing wheels after adding the IH drill disc seals in place of the flat washers. That cone shaped rubber washer was a good fit over the HD JD bearing seal and really helped keep dirt and water out of them.
The type 2 with the two standard bearings and the separate seal worked good after I learned how to service them. I learned to make sure the wheel wear ring was smooth with no wear or corrosion, and the seal lips were in good condition. a good cleaning of the seal and packing the seal lips with poly urea grease which has a higher oil to thickener content than any other grease, so the seal stays lubed longer. I cleaned and repacked the seals in the type 2 wheels every 4,000 acres (30 ft of drills) and usually would only find dirty grease beyond the first seal lip, so I could have extended that another 1000 acres. It also seemed to help to put a layer of grease around the flange of the metal dust covers before installing them to better seal out dust and moisture.
The Thompson wheels have had no service for aprox 10,000 acres with no bearing failures.
My drills are the very early models 89-90 ?, so they did not have replaceable bushings and pins on the closing wheel arms. The big opener arms do not have enough metal around the pin holes to allow the thick wall, late model JD powered iron bushings to be fitted, so I went with a jobber oilite bronze bushing only 1/16 thick. I was a bit afraid that the bronze bushings might be too soft to stand the load, but they have had little wear and no seizing problems in over 20,000 acres, they are run without grease. The closer wheel arms have the original non replaceable. welded in pins replaced with late 750 bolt in pins that have the dry lube coating on them.
We also had a couple spare wheels set up with new bearings PRESSED into the wheels and a driver to correctly install new seals with poly urea grease to lube them. Others in our area also had a lot of bearing trouble and seemed to not understand that those seals needed to be clean and well lubed to live, some assembles the wheel with no lube on the seals and burned up set after set without realizing what they were doing wrong.
Edited by Jon Hagen 12/19/2007 11:21
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| Jon,
I have operated/serviced an early 90's JD 750 with the type 2 closing wheel setup your talking about. When the bearings go out, we put in a new ring, new seal, 2 new bearings and also replace the stamped dust cap. The seal was always lubed with regular gun grease, nothing special. I don't remember seeing any special grease mentioned in the manual. Is this something your JD dealer recommended, or?
We replaced all boots, blades, and bearings a couple winters ago. The seals were lubed well upon reassembly but we still had some issues with the bearings going out. Upon dissassembly, the seal was shot. Is it because we didn't use that special grease?
The thing just plants 300 acres of wheat a year now and I don't have to run it so it doesn't matter to me but I just wonder what you thought.
It used to see about 1200 acres a year of soybeans plus the 300 acres of wheat. It spends most of its time under a roof unless it is in the field.
Mike
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | JD does have a special blue grease that they use between the sealed ball bearings and the triple lip seal. While using this grease rather than just any gun grease may help somewhat, the facts are that in this application JD has the seal running on a STEEL ring rather than the nylon ring and no matter what grease you use it is going to get dirt in it, especially in some dry soil seeding conditions. This seal works best when running on a nylon ring, not steel, and when you can occasionally purge grease past the seal as it was designed to do. You can go to the blue grease but I would not expect very large increases in seal life due to the fact it's running on steel and not purgeable, if that is a word. jmho. A lot does depend on your soils. Seal life and resulting bearing life in dry, abrasive Texas conditions is much less than in moist Ohio River Valley conditions. Jim at Dawn |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | The grease may be the difference. I used poly urea grease because it has a much higher ratio of oil to thickner,so it has more oil to last longer. I believe I have read that at least some poly urea grease has synthetic oil in the mix . Jim at Dawn mentioned something about a special blue grease to lube the seals, I wish I knew what the formula of that stuff was. The JD poly urea grease will creep out of the seals and form a wet oily ring, about 2 inches wide around the seal in off season inside storage, so it really keeps things lubed. When I cleaned and relubed the type 2 seals after 2 years /4000 acres, dirt had only made it's way past the first seal lip, the rest of the seal/grease looked in new condition. |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | I looked at a tube of the SD poly urea grease that worked so well for me, it's green. I understand about the steel wear ring, in the off season any moisture /dirt will form corrosion on the ring that grinds up the seal when you put it back in service. the poly urea grease may better coat the wear ring the way it creeps and lessen off season corrosion. Odd they would use steel when many JD wheel bearings with that multi lip seal use a plastic wear ring ???
Also the dust issue, my drills only plant soil that has not seem a tillage tool in over a dozen years, and it is damp spring seeding. I never have a dust layer on the drill box lids. comparing that to seeding dry tilled soil would have to make a huge difference. |
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USA | From what I was told he was going to have a serious operation, didn't think he would live, signed things over to the wife before the surgery. He lived , she booted him out and sold the company. New owners wouldn't let him remove personal items that he owned him from the premises. Ugly situation, don't know how things have progressed, since I was told this last spring.
Edited by coup 12/20/2007 21:39
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Shoup Manufacturing
