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Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned
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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 10/30/2012 09:27 (#2668564)
Subject: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



northeastern Ohio

The turbo on my Jeep Liberty CRD (common rail diesel) went out on Sunday when I was 100 miles from home.  It started making a whistling sound back in June (4 months ago), but I decided to keep running it.  There were no other signs of imminent failure (did not use any oil, fuel economy was unchanged, no loss of power).  I pulled the hose off in June to check for play and did not detect any significant play in the shaft.  The Jeep only has 80k on the odometer (bought it used, might not be right).  It was the first Liberty diesel I bought,,, I now have 3 and really like them.  Back to the story: 

 

I was on the highway when it failed and drove it to the next exit (about 1/2 a mile).  There was a huge cloud of smoke whenever I gave it any throttle, but I limped it to a parking lot.  My dad brought a trailer and I drove it on.  Pulled it into my shop when I got home and drained the oil.  There was only a quart left in the pan!!!!  I pulled the turbo (about 2 hour job).  I then installed a used turbo in the CRD.   I put new oil in the pan and a new filter.   Did a quick lookover, and everything seemed to be in order.

 

Here is where the fun begins!  I started the engine and let it idle while the oil pressure came up.  It seemed to be running fine.  I let it idle for a couple minutes while the oil warmed up.  I then gave it a little throttle (2000 rpm) and it sounded great.  So I gave it more throttle (about 3000 rpm).  I sounded great for a second and then suddenly went to 4000 rpm.  I instantly removed my foot from the throttle.  And then it went to 5000 rpm ( I am guessing on the rpm).....  I quickly turned the key off.  The engine continued to race as my shop filled with black smoke.  It ran like mad for at least 30 seconds and then finally came to a stop.

 

I went to the house and ate lunch while the smoke cleared.  Later I went to see what was left of my Jeep.  Surprisingly, there were no puddles of oil or holes in the side of the block.  There was a black stain on the concrete where the tailpipe turns down.  The oil level in the pan was still on the full mark.

 

I figure that the intercooler was full of oil and when I gave it some throttle, it started sucking that oil right into the intake.  Turning the key off probably saved the engine from going past the point of no return (limited the "fuel" to just the oil in the intercooler).  

 

I pushed the Jeep out of the shop and fired up the engine again.  It ran fine until I gave it some throttle.  The rpm's danced around the red line again, but soon it smoothed out.  I let it run for a few minutes while I varied the throttle.  A little smokey, but no too bad.  I decided to take it around the block to see if I could use up the rest of the oil in the intercooler.  By the time I got back, it had quit smoking and seems to be running normal.

 

So the lesson here:  if you have turbo failure, don't forget to clean the oil out of the intercooler. 

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teletech
Posted 10/30/2012 09:31 (#2668571 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: RE: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


You were lucky, usually when a turbo goes the engine does too.
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John..neAR
Posted 10/30/2012 09:37 (#2668576 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: RE: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



Caraway, AR

In spite of the turbo fail, still a good ending.

How about the diesel liberty, milage, power. Where is a good place to buy used ones.

Thanks, John

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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 10/30/2012 09:48 (#2668599 - in reply to #2668576)
Subject: RE: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



northeastern Ohio

John,
The Liberty that had the turbo failure is my wife's and has always averaged about 27 mpg.  My work Liberty averages around 20 mpg, but carries about 1000# of tools and mostly back road driving.  Much better than the pickups that I used to drive.

Lots of power.  I tow empty wagons to and from fields and it had no problem.

Mine all came from Ebay.  Jeep only made the CRD in 2005 and 2006.  There are several for sale on the LOST Jeep forum right now:   www.lostjeeps.com

 

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tommyw-5088
Posted 10/30/2012 10:33 (#2668672 - in reply to #2668599)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


Texas
The CAC is full of oil ,we normally just replace them ,never seem to get them clean .

But time is a factor at work ,with 500 trucks and 15 people to fix them .
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ekeller2
Posted 10/30/2012 11:00 (#2668706 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


So. IL
You got very lucky. When a turbo goes, its just best to shut it down and call the big hook to come and get it. It sounds like you lost the seal on the intake side of the turbo. They will run away and then there is nothing to do but stand and watch it suck the pan dry and blow up, unless you have some way of cutting the air off. It never hurts to have a plan and find the air intake and something to cover it when changing out a turbo.
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John..neAR
Posted 10/30/2012 11:10 (#2668727 - in reply to #2668599)
Subject: RE: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



Caraway, AR

Here, the runaround vechicle of choice is the tracker/sidekick. Get 25 +/- running irrigation lines.

Won't haul much except 2 souls, shovel and a few tools.

Like the jeep, havn't made them in a few yrs and getting hard to find a good one.

I think it's a conspiracy.

John



Edited by John..neAR 10/30/2012 11:12
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mr8850
Posted 10/30/2012 11:11 (#2668730 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


Minot ND
I read a story about a stationary engine awhile back, early 1800s, a guy cheched the oil and added to the crank case, turns out i was a 2 stroke engine, that engine took off and the flywheel broke apart, sending schrapinal miles away.
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Tazzerblue
Posted 10/30/2012 11:43 (#2668772 - in reply to #2668599)
Subject: Mods or egr delete on Jeeps?


SW MN
What if any mods have you made to your jeeps? have you removed any polution crap? I have no Idea what is on them
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rHiNoBaLlS
Posted 10/30/2012 11:56 (#2668790 - in reply to #2668730)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


WC MN
After an OH or any turbo work ALWAYS have a way to starve the air. I learned the hard way after we fired up a D436 in a 986 a few years back that had been sitting for 9 years. Governor was stuck WOT and seized a piston to the sleeve subsequently putting a bunch of water in the pan ASAP. IT was still running and I had to cut the fuel by turning the valve on the fuel line. They will run for a few seconds by starving the pump (not a good idea either but what do you do?). I didn't know any better and that was an expensive lesson. She needed a major anyways but it could have been worse, like a rod through the block worse.. Youtube Detroit run aways and you get a few minutes of entertainment. There was one on there with an IH that ran away pulling in a tractor pull and the flywheel let loose splitting the tractor in half. WOW!
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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 10/30/2012 13:31 (#2668882 - in reply to #2668772)
Subject: RE: Mods or egr delete on Jeeps?



northeastern Ohio

The Liberty CRD engine has a "flow control valve" as part of the EPA emissions package. When you turn the key off, the flow control valve closes for about 5 seconds and shuts off the air flow to the intake. In this case, there must have been enough oil in the intake to keep it running past the 5 seconds. 

The emisions crap: this little diesel has EGR. When the computer determines the engine is up to operating temps and the MAF sensor determines there is sufficient flow, then the flow control valve closes and the EGR valve opens. This allows soot to enter the intake. It also has a PCV valve that feeds back into the intake side of the turbo. This combination of soot and oil vapor gets to meet in the intake manifold where it plugs up the manifold pressure sensor as well as the manifold. 

However, I have "heard" of guys unplugging the MAF sensor. This causes a check engine light and disables the EGR valve and flow control valve from opening while the engine is running. I have also "heard" of guys venting the crankcase to somewhere other than the air intake. These two mods keep the soot and oil vapor out of the engine. Some guys have went to the effort to build a little electronic device that tricks the computer into thinking that the EGR valve is working, when in fact it is disconnected. This device keeps the check engine light from coming on, which helps you pass emisions tests if you are in an area that requires them. The check engine light on mine is on, but it does not bother me.

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Ed Winkle
Posted 10/30/2012 13:35 (#2668895 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


Martinsville, Ohio
Now that's a darned good story, Jay. I went and had lunch while the smoke cleared out. LOL

Curious what charger they use and what your used charger is?

Ed
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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 10/30/2012 13:36 (#2668897 - in reply to #2668727)
Subject: RE: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



northeastern Ohio

I had a 95 Geo tracker before I bought the first Liberty.  Good little runaround vehicle, but it was 10 years old at the time and had 160k miles.  It was cold in the winter and my wife didn't like to drive stick.

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Ed Winkle
Posted 10/30/2012 13:38 (#2668900 - in reply to #2668790)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


Martinsville, Ohio
Good point, wonder if you could rig an air shut off kill feature?

Ed
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Jay NE Ohio
Posted 10/30/2012 13:45 (#2668906 - in reply to #2668895)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



northeastern Ohio

It's a Garrett GT2056 turbo, but it must be an odd duck.  I don't think this particular one is used in any other apps and Garrett does not have any parts to rebuild.  My local turbo shop won't touch it.  However, there is a company in California that rebuilds them.  I ordered a reman from them so that I have a spare for the next time.

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RockyMtnKng
Posted 10/30/2012 15:38 (#2669024 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: RE: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


Manson IA

That's why diesel pulling trucks n tractors have to run one of these types of air shut offs just in case of a run away pump or from oil from a turbo failure...





Edited by RockyMtnKng 10/30/2012 15:39
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mschultz
Posted 10/30/2012 15:56 (#2669049 - in reply to #2668882)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


Oregon
Is it possible that it would not have run away if you had not disconnected the MAP sensor / flow control valve? -Mike
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Ben D, N CA
Posted 10/30/2012 17:02 (#2669123 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: RE: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot
The Jeep liberty diesel is the only other vehicle I've thought of buying. Good mileage, still good in the winter, and room for the whole family. Sounds like you must like them as well, seeings as how you bought one and now have three... ;)
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pudamobile
Posted 10/30/2012 19:54 (#2669327 - in reply to #2668564)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned


Finley, ND
Wow...good story. Glad everything seems in order. Our CRD is creeping up on 70k, no complaints yet! Only thing we did was add a Green Diesel Engineering tune to disable EGR function and added a little power. We're averaging between 27 and 28 with our '05.

I'm sure glad to hear your CRD survived it's little mishap. They're good little rigs!
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happytrails
Posted 10/30/2012 21:44 (#2669631 - in reply to #2669327)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



Alberta, Canada
No doubt a bad experience but a good lesson. I had a turbo go on an ISM Cummins in a semi years ago. Got it shut off but then started it again to get away from freeway traffic. Long story short, it ran away on lube oil and bent some valves. I did finally get it into 5th and get it stalled but was going to jump otherwise.
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Gary Lyon
Posted 10/30/2012 22:23 (#2669740 - in reply to #2668882)
Subject: RE: Mods or egr delete on Jeeps?



Southeast Wyoming

Jay NE Ohio - 10/30/2012 11:31

The Liberty CRD engine has a "flow control valve" as part of the EPA emissions package. When you turn the key off, the flow control valve closes for about 5 seconds and shuts off the air flow to the intake. In this case, there must have been enough oil in the intake to keep it running past the 5 seconds. 

The emisions crap: this little diesel has EGR. When the computer determines the engine is up to operating temps and the MAF sensor determines there is sufficient flow, then the flow control valve closes and the EGR valve opens. This allows soot to enter the intake. It also has a PCV valve that feeds back into the intake side of the turbo. This combination of soot and oil vapor gets to meet in the intake manifold where it plugs up the manifold pressure sensor as well as the manifold. 

However, I have "heard" of guys unplugging the MAF sensor. This causes a check engine light and disables the EGR valve and flow control valve from opening while the engine is running. I have also "heard" of guys venting the crankcase to somewhere other than the air intake. These two mods keep the soot and oil vapor out of the engine. Some guys have went to the effort to build a little electronic device that tricks the computer into thinking that the EGR valve is working, when in fact it is disconnected. This device keeps the check engine light from coming on, which helps you pass emisions tests if you are in an area that requires them. The check engine light on mine is on, but it does not bother me.



If turning the key off causes a baffle of some sort to shut down air flow that should have ended the excitement immediately.  The old Detroit diesel used to have an emergency flap as run-aways were common.  When working at the CAT house in the early 70's we always had a think manual or something available to slap over the air intake anytime an engine was started after an overhaul.

Well, not everyone did.  They had a factory trained wis bang know it all who did an overhaul and started it.  When it ran away he grabbed a fire extinquisher and blasted that into the intake.  The shop got to pay for the next overhaul.  He is the same guy who took the hydraulic lines loose on a loader with the bucket about 8 foot in the air.  He got everyones attention with that deal.

I had a turbo compressor wheel explode just east of Burlington, CO about 2.5 years ago on my detroit.  I got it off the road and torn down.  I had to have my brother bring me a turbo and air cleaner from Cheyenne the next morning.  The air cleaner was full of bits and pieces of the compressor wheel.  The rebuilt turbo had a new housing that had never been machined.  We used a file and filed it out to fit.  It has been running great since.

Thanks for the information on the Liberty.  I didn't know they ever came out with a diesel.  Sound like a nice unit.

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db1212
Posted 11/1/2012 14:24 (#2672524 - in reply to #2668900)
Subject: Re: Jeep Liberty diesel turbo died,,, lesson learned



Some fire trucks have / had them. Read some stories about runaways from smoke too.
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