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West Union, Illinois | A recent post brought up a regional difference in definitions. What do you call a "chisel plow"? In the post below this was referred to as a chisel plow, but to many guys east of the Mississippi it looks like a field cultivator 
To me a chisel plow looks like this: 
The kind of ground I work one as big as the first would be unusable. It would take 500+ hp to pull it ... and in places that wouldn't be nearly enough. So, when the term chisesl plow is used, what do you expect to see and how is it different from what we would call a field cultivator? 
Is the diffference in design, use, expectations, or just different words for the same thing? |
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Macon, IL | I agree with your definition. Chisel plow has fewer shanks, runs much deeper-primary tillage-not finishing. Field cultivator leaves a finish ready for planting. |
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| +1 |
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Caraway, AR | Here, the top 2 pics would be chisel plows, the bottom would be a field cult. Same as y'all. John |
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| Field cultivator has shovels with a sweep around here where a chisel plow has points or twist shovels |
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central Indiana | top one has the wrong shovels and shanks appeasr to be to close for what we call a chisel ..we use achisel the go deep and throw alot of dirt |
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| on the shanks. Field cults are light shanks that will trip easy on 6' spacing, chisel are 2' plus thick on 12 ' spacing that trip only on rocks |
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Sunburst Montana | A chisel plow isn't defined by width or what kind of shovel or point you run on them. Back when we used to plow, we run 16" sweeps most of the time for working that summerfallow but if the ground got really hard we would use twisted spikes on the first time through. Chisel plows may look like field cultivators but will have heavier shanks, heavier frame, and most likely bigger spacing between the shanks. Chisel plows are primary tillage tools while field cultivators are secondary tillage tools. Go look up a JD 2200 and a 2400 and compare the specs. Or just look up any field cultivator and chisel plow and compare the specs. Most companies make both.
Edited by Steiger Man 10/3/2012 10:58
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Southeast Washington | The top picture is a chisel plow, just a wide one. The Calkins are built in the region and by simply changing what is on the end of the shank will make it look just like your chisel plow. In the PNW there is a large variety of conditions and soil types. Some areas have light soils and they make summerfallow and will use sweeps to slice the roots when they are working their ground. Don't let what is simply bolted onto the end of the shank make your determination as to what is a chisel or a field cultivator. The picture is a little deceiving as to how big the shank and springs are.
Also in the hills of the PNW most equipment takes almost double the power of the flat country so most farmers are running fairly large tractors anyway with most being over 400 hp now in the current models and now people are buying at least 500 hp as used ones become available. |
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West Union, Illinois | steigerpower - So if you took the sweeps off example #1 and bolted them onto the shanks of example # 2, would example #2 become a field cultivator to you? I think this is where the regional variations some in to play. Around here the widest sweep you see would be 10" and that is unusual. We would not consider putting a sweep on a chisel plow. A chisel plow would have straight points or a 3" or 4" twisted moldboard.I think the main differences are shank size and spacing. And then we get to adding stuff like disks and levelers edit: Yeah, I just realized the first leveling shank is broken in this photo. This tool actually has cutter disks in front followed by 5 deep ripping shanks (you can just see one behind the tire), shanks with 4" moldboards, and leveling shanks with sweeps. When I bought it there was a Buster Bar behind all that, but it didn't do much good so I removed it.
Edited by Mike SE IL 10/3/2012 11:25
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Mid Michigan | Mike I agree with your description of a chisel plow. The other two look like field cultivators to me. I think if he were using the second picture in your thread to chisel plow his ground it would have went in the ground and the thread would have never been started because most chisel plows go in the ground. |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | A chisel plow in ND, has much stronger frame / shanks with wider spacing than a field cultivator. Tool points on a chisel plow can be anything from a spike to an 18 inch sweep, depending on what is the intended job.
Anyone remember the old IH Vibrachisel ? An attempt to make a machine to do both the job of a chisel plow and a field cultivator.
Edited by Jon Hagen 10/3/2012 17:45
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West Union, Illinois | I understand. But keep in mind to us just seeing the sweeps means field cultivator regardless of how it is built. |
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Eastern North Carolina | In my part of the world picture #2 is a chisel plow, could be two or three bar frame, heavy spring loaded shanks...
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| Used to have to fill out chem complaint forms - in MN it was always "I used the digger to dig it in" -- seemed like they had 3 pieces of tillage equipment - Ripper, Moldboard plow, and digger - which could be a disc, field cultivator or chisel. |
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CO, NE | Around there, the first picture would be called "sweeps". We run them pretty shallow, and they are mainly for weed control, not for pulling up the ground. The points would probably be a bit wider here too. You don't need a huge amount of HP to pull them. I pull 20' with a MF 3545 (125HP).
The second picture would just be a "chisel", you run them as deep as you want, and they're mainly for breaking up a hardpan. The deeper they run, the more HP they need. I pull a 16' with that same tractor, but there are fewer shanks per foot than the sweeps. |
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Ohio | Mike SE IL - 10/3/2012 11:33
I understand. But keep in mind to us just seeing the sweeps means field cultivator regardless of how it is built.
Exactly. That's what's throwing me off. Here if its got sweeps its a field cultivator. A disc chisel has a set of discs and then 5,7,9,11,13 or 15 shanks. A disk ripper has a set of discs then usually 5 or 7 shanks on a 2 foot spacing and then another set of discs. The you have the plain Jane chisel plow with just shanks...which almost no one runs around here btw. Here you either pull a disc chisel or a disc ripper. |
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NW MN | a chisel plow will have alot heavier shanks usually on 12" spacing, in our area of heavy clays you will see anything from a straight spike to a beaver tail shovel to a 4" twisted spike. I've never seen sweeps on one, We personally pull a 38' chisel plow with beaver tails with a 415 hp Challenger. A field cultivator will have lighter shanks usually on 6" spacing and will have a 3" spoon to 9" sweep. |
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S.E. Sask. | And the old vibra chisel did pretty good as a compromise. I knew one neighbour that was all he had for primary tillage, seed bed preparation, etc.
The vibra chisel had wider shank spacing and I think a little heavier built than the "Vibra shank" which was a field cultivator for light secondary tillage.
Here is my "chisel plow". A morris magnum with heavy trips and frame, anything from 4 inch chisels for spring spiking stubble to 16 inch sweeps for summerfallow later on.
33 feet (12 inch spacing) is no problem for any 140 hp tractor and up in this part of the world. We don't have to work as deep as you guys in the south.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtSL8wPXClM |
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S.E. Sask. | ccpester - 10/3/2012 13:25 a chisel plow will have alot heavier shanks usually on 12" spacing, in our area of heavy clays you will see anything from a straight spike to a beaver tail shovel to a 4" twisted spike. I've never seen sweeps on one, We personally pull a 38' chisel plow with beaver tails with a 415 hp Challenger. A field cultivator will have lighter shanks usually on 6" spacing and will have a 3" spoon to 9" sweep.
You probably don't see sweeps on the chisel plows because hardly anybody uses them to work summerfallow anymore. Here is John Deere's version of the chisel plow a.k.a. deep tillage, as seen here in Sask. This one is a 1610 model that we made into an anhydrous applicator. 31 feet with 31 shanks. Those anhydrous knives pull a lot heavier than sweeps or spikes.
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southern MN | My part of MN, you have a plow or chisel plow or disk chisel or a ripper. All do fall tillage, deep, rough, leave big lumps.
Actually a decade ago the popular term was 'a DMI rig', as in, I DMI'ed my field yesterday... Sorta like you blow your nose in Kleenex, not tissue....
In spring you follow with a field cultivator to smooth out the soil.
That is followed by a harrow - now a days the harrow is a part of the field cultivator, typically 2-3 bar spring tooth to really smooth out the ground.
Used to be a disk would be used in spring, but we found out our wet clay soil packs down hard with a disk, so they are mostly parked in the grove and used for special needs. Altho now I see more Wisheck (sp?) big huge disks being used in fall for heavy tillage in our dry falls. But that is a while different beast than a 'disk' we are used to around here....
The most puzzling implement to me is a 'disk harrow'. A harrow is a rigid tooth or spring tooth light implement, smooths out the ground, only goes an inch or so deep. A disk has the metal plates and cuts up the soil. Very different implements. Seems 'disk harrow' is a southern term, and that's fine, but was very confusing to figure out what is being talked about because to me a disk and a harrow are 2 very different things.
Chisel plow is a heavy thing with very strong shanks and a 2, 3 , or 4 inch bottom that is straight or twisted, and designed to go 8-10 inches deep. (Ripper or digger will go a little deeper, to rip or dig out the plow pan.) A chiesel plow does _not_ have duck feet on it, you couldn't pull something like that deep enough to matter in our heavy clay, rocky ground. It just wouldn't work. That thing in the picture in the other thread with the 15 inch shovels - no way, that would be a useless tool around here, you'd either stall the tractor, or break the shanks off, or skid over the top of the ground. It would need 4 inch or less bottoms to work in the ground 'here'. Now I understand it is what it is in the soils it's used in, but I have never called anything with duck shovels on it a chiesel plow, because such a thing won't work deeper than 4 inches around here.
So to the question - a chisel plow has 2-4 inch shovels and heavy shank and goes 8 or so inches deep in the heavy clay ground to bust it up some, big chunks, typically on 12 or 15 inch centers. Works well in fall, not so good in spring.
A digger or ripper tend to go a little deeper, might be spaced farther apart, and have special little shovels on the tips, to bust & lift and shatter the hard pan.
--->Paul |
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Sunnyside, WA | Chisel plows have heavy shanks spaced at at least 12". Field cultivators are spaced at 6-9". I will put 2" spikes on the top picture. Then can we call it a chisel plow? This Calkins chisel plow will run 8" deep behind my JD 9520. With 2-3" points it will go 12" deep. Show me a field cultivator that will go that deep amd hold up.
Pictures don't do justice to how much heavier a chisel plow is compared to a field cultivator. I grew up in the Midwest. Anything was a chisel plow, even though most should have been called disc chisel, or disc ripper. |
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Montana | https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/575362_381258835230240_1... This is a 41 shank 680 Chisel plow behind my 8520 I have Summers high Lift harrows and they are fantastic. |
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Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot | J. Sheehan's device would be a chisel here. Whether it has sweeps or points doesn't matter. Actually rarer to see points on a chisel here. Lot of ground gets chiseled in the fall, and the sweeps can help throw ridges up that will help some with wind erosion in the winter.
Here, at least, there are no 'field cultivators'. Everything light like that is a vibrashank. Doesn't matter if they are green, red or purple. I'd never really heard the term field cultivator except on this site. Granted, they don't get a whole lot of use here, usually just in front of grain if a guy has burned stubble and gassed. Disks are much more suited to our ground and rotations for finishing work.
Now go down to California and what we call a ripper, they call a finishing chisel. 30" deep with a chisel?
http://www.porterswelding.com/brochures/Finish%20Chisel.pdf
To qualify as ripper down there, I guess the shanks have to be measured in feet and they get pulled behind things on steel tracks.
http://www.wilcoxap.com/html/5000_series.html |
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Montana | That is a hmdinger of a ripper! WoW |
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Montana | https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/485873_381258455230278_2... here is another picture of my 680 I have a 1600 and a 610 and this one is far superior. |
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Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | So if you put sweeps on a disk chisel, then what does it become?
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Ohio | Ben in the Basin - 10/3/2012 18:03
So if you put sweeps on a disk chisel, then what does it become?
You don't put sweeps on a disc chisel because its not a field cultivator. |
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Colorado | I would call 1&2 chisel plows and 3 a field cultivator |
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Sunburst Montana | And you would be wrong. If we were to put 16" sweeps on a true field cultivator we would start breaking shanks. Thats why we used chisel plows. They are stronger. |
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Sumner GA, Located in southwest GA, | Mike, you have a picture or a brand for that plow. |
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West Union, Illinois | JoshuaGA - Mike, you have a picture or a brand for that plow. The second photo clear up at the top of the thread is a Glencoe I found in a quick Google search. Mine showing the leveller sweeps is a Glencoe/Farmhand 8500 YB Yield Builder |
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Martinsville, Ohio | I haven't ran either since we bought the White NoTill planter in 76! I do agree on the primary and secondary tillage descriptions.
Ed |
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Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | EAckerman - 10/3/2012 15:21
Ben in the Basin - 10/3/2012 18:03
So if you put sweeps on a disk chisel, then what does it become?
You don't put sweeps on a disc chisel because its not a field cultivator.
And yet, if someone puts sweeps on a non-disk chisel it does become a field cultivator?
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NE SD | Number 1 and 2 are chisel plows. The only difference between them is the sweeps and spikes. Number 3 is a field cultivator, or here and in MN sometimes called a "digger". A chisel plow will have 500-1200lb trip shanks while a field cultivator will have 120-200lb trip shanks. Back in the days of summer fallow (not that long ago for us actually), we ran 16" sweeps on the chisel plow because they would kill weeds, but also throw ridges that were a lot less likely to blow. A field cultivator would leave the field way too fine and smooth. |
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Ea. Washington | Think I got it figured out! A field cultivator looks like Marlyn Monroe and a chisel plow looks like Phyliss Diller... |
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How do you define "chisel plow"?
