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East Central Wisconsin | I recently bought a New Holland 273 baler with thrower and it works great except for one knotter. The inside knotter (right side) ties a perfect knot every time. The tail is about 3/4" long when the knot tightens up after the bale leaves the chamber. The other side is about 3/8" long after the knot tightens up and it will pull apart when if you get a heavy bunch in, or if the windrow gets thicker. I've tried loosening the twine holder tension as was mentioned to me by several folks, but it didn't seem to make much difference. I went about 1.5 turns looser on that side and the length only increased to about 1/2" on the tail. Do I need to loosen it more, or is there something else I need to look at? The knife arms and knives are all brand new, replaced by the dealer I bought it at. They are adjusted exactly the same as the knives line up perfectly when viewed from the side. The other night when I baled, I missed about 40 bales in 250, and today I missed 6 in 140. Two of those had at least one twine burned off by the thrower, though I don't know if it happened because the one knot let go, or because the bale didn't get pulled right by the thrower. I am running plastic twine 170lb knot strength. Baler had sisal in it when I saw it at the dealer, they switched it to plastic for me. Anything else to check? I used to have an old International baler wtih the McCormick knotters, so this is a bit new to me. The manual really doesn't cover this problem in their troubleshooting section. |
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Huntley Montana | Loosen the twine holder more. |
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| Use a flat file to file the tip down on the upper side of the bill hook. When the hook is open it looks like a little tooth on the top small part of the bill hook, This allows it to close tighter. They are very hard and it does not take much about the thickness of a buisness card filed off will help alot. The plunger should knock the tails out of the bill hook on the next stroke instead of tying and droping them, This pulls the knot tails tighter so it doesnt come untied in the chamber. File it till it tie's and holds the tails. If you pull the tails tight buy hand right after the knotter you will see the difference.. |
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Lincoln County. NC | Adjust the knife arm so it clears the billhook by 1/2" at its farthest point in its travel arc. Measure while holding the arm back towards the billhook. The spec is 3/8 to 1/2 and the lower end of the spec will give a shorter tail. Also check to be sure the twine disc timing isn't retarded on that side as compared to the other.
1-1/2 turns on the twine holder tension??? Sounds like you loosened the billhook cam tension. If you actually loosened the twine tension 1-1/2 turns, you are gonna lose the twine from the holder altogether.
Edited by RickB 8/12/2012 05:30
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SW Ohio | Also check the hay dogs. Sounds like it could also be too much material in the left side of bale, or going too fast.
Good video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoB_1meRa9A |
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East Central Wisconsin | I definitely loosened the twine tension, not the billhook. After loosening the tension didn't do much, I tried tightening the bill hook a turn or two to see if it wasn't pulling the tails tight, but it didn't seem to do anything either. The bales are coming out square, and seemed to be packed evenly. I'll check the knife clearances. I have noticed that the tail length on this side seems to vary slightly from 3/8" to 1/2" in length on the finished bale. The other side is always the same. The piece of twine that gets cut off and discarded is much shorter on the side that ties the long tail (about 1/2" shorter).
Upstate ny, the knife arms knock the knots off the billhooks, not the plunger. The McCormick style knotters work that way, but the Deering style uses the knife arm to remove the knots from the billhook. The hooks are perpendicular to the bale when they are in the home position, so the twine wouldn't be able to pull off if they didn't.
Hay Hud Ohio, I've watched that video a few times already and it is a very good reference. |
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East Central Wisconsin | Well, I tore into it this morning, and I think I found the problem. The billhook on the left side looks like it may have been replaced, and it is different than the right one. The right one has a deep slot for the tooth on the end of the billhook to fit into, the left one doesn't. The clearance on the right billhook is very tight, the left billhook is over 1/8" open when in the home position. The roller on the left billhook is destroyed with two flat spots worn into it. It looks like someone took a billhook out of a different baler and installed it in here. Even the stem it spins on is a bit too long for the frame, as the round part of the shaft sticks out of the bottom of the frame about 3/32" whereas the right side is flush. I don't know what baler that billhook assembly came off of, but it isn't right for mine. Now I get to see just how much I get to spend on that piece.... I want to thank upstate ny for the tip. I was checking to see if I could file the edge down when I discovered the major difference in the gap on the billhook. Somehow I missed that up until this point.
Edited by Orion 8/12/2012 09:03
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East Central Wisconsin | So they are showing two different bill hook assemblies for plastic twine on the parts site. Both are for the 273 baler. First one is part # 717013 and the other is part # 796734. Anyone know which one I need? I did figure out why one side is different than the other. The right side has a billhook for plastic twine, and the left side has a bill hook for sisal twine. Is there an advantage to either one? I currently run plastic because my previous baler tied poorly with sisal twine and I had plastic twine on the shelf yet from that. Is there an advantage to sisal, or should I stick with plastic? |
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| Yes the knife arm rubs the knot loop off the billhook, the hook opening holds the tails. The tails need to be pulled snug by the knife arm pass not pulling out of the hook opening. To much bill hook tension will just wear the cam ball and cam track, the hook itself needs to be closed. |
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Chilliwack BC | Is there an advantage to sisal, or should I stick with plastic?
Sisal twine won't wrap up on or cause fires on a tub grinder. We bought sisal twine billhooks for our 570 and 575 this year and I believe they are $90 a piece. |
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East Central Wisconsin | Well, I don't use a tub grinder, I just open the bales and spread them out in the mangers or in the bunk feeder. I'm a pretty small operation with only 30 milk cows and some heifers. My main concern is what twine would be better for use with the thrower. I've heard that the plastic twine is stronger and less likely to break when the bales bounce off the back of the thrower rack. I have noticed, though, that the plastic twine sometimes melts and breaks if the bale doesn't get pushed far enough out of the chamber such as on the end of a row or if the hay is thin. Does the sisal twine prevent that, or will it burn through just as easily? I currently have 4 full and 2 partial rolls of plastic twine left over, so I'd have to buy new twine in addition to the bill hooks if I got that route, but I'm willing to spend the money if it makes for less troubles down the road. I need to make a decision tomorrow when I order the bill hooks, so I thought I would get some opinions from folks with experience. Upstate ny, I see what you are saying now. I was thinking about the knot pulling off, not tightening up. I'm still getting the hang of the new knotter system.
Edited by Orion 8/12/2012 12:11
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Lincoln County. NC | billhooks designed for plastic twine tie sisal just fine. New Holland balers come with billhooks for plastic, and have since the 500 series balers came out. Billhooks for plastic come with steel rollers for knotter frames with replaceable cams and brass rollers for one piece cams. If your knotter frames are original, buy the ones with brass rollers. No real downside to putting a brass roller against a replaceable cam, and there's no downside to tying sisal with a low clearance plastic style billhook. |
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East Central Wisconsin | Okay, so get the plastic twine bill hooks with the brass rollers. I took a picture of the bill hook assemblies to show you what I have. You can see that one bill hook has a much larger gap than the other. The large gap is a sisal bill hook, the narrow gap is the plastic one. Figured I'd post it as a reference for future searchers.
Edited by Orion 8/12/2012 19:09
 (Billhook.jpg)
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 Billhook.jpg (40KB - 958 downloads)
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SW Ohio | The 717013 is for plastic
http://www.messicks.com/NH/205.aspx
if that link doesn't work the Messicks . com and /or New Holland parts. Messicks is nice because they give price and in stock right on the part.
just looked again and there are two shown for plastic, but the first one names the extra slot,
796734 says plastic but thats all, 717011 is sisal +brass roller and they show yet another one.
I would never go back to sisal, unless i was baling compost and wanted it to rot away.
You might have some luck filing off the tip on the one you have to get by. |
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SW Ohio | You must have posted your pic in the middle of me typing!! That one on the right looks like the roller is worn out, if you file the tip down it may not even close enough, looks like you already have it apart, might as well go new. |
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New Holland 273, one knotter leaves tails too short
