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| Hi all. About how many gpm and what psi on average is required to run a fan on the very large air seeders? Thanks. |
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Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | Why would direction of travel make a difference for seed moving through an enclosed system?
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Leeds, North Dakota | Don, from flexicoil, 2340 air cart single fan 0.0035x fan rpm, example 4200 rpm = 14.7 gpm, dual fan 0.0039 x fan rpm, if you have variable rate torque generators each one needs 1.25 gpm constantly, need 3/4 hose to feed motor, or motors, psi appx 2700, you amaze me on your projects, hope this helps, Scott.
Edited by scottnelsen 3/27/2012 12:10
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| Thank you very much Scott. That helps a great lot. When searching this site, I found a lot info, but mostly directing people to buy the high flow systems on tractors, not the actual needs for a fan. So thank you for this info. |
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| Thanks for that. So if I had about 20gpm, I may be able to run the fan and a meter from what it sounds. Thanks. |
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| I do not think 2700 PSI is accurate at all. The rest of it sounds decent. I think our 1720 flexi-coil cart took about 1300 to 1500 PSI to run it. Not really sure on the current Deere 1910 air cart. The newer manuals don't seem to have all the specifications in them, or at least I haven't seen it in ours. Where you really have problems is if you have a single hydraulic pump and it barely has the capacity to run the fan. Then you add in hydraulic downpressure on your implement that makes it so not only is your fan taking all of your GPM, but the pump is having to develop high pressure on all those GPM. Not all cooling systems are up to the task. An example would be when our neighbors used to have 9220 John Deere tractors with the 42 GPM pumps. They were running 42' John Deere air seeders and when they got on to 1 mile runs they were having heating problems. They were able to get by, but they were right on the ragged edge of being able to even though their hydraulic system had way more capacity than what the drill requirements were. Most of these carts are designed to run on a closed center hydraulic system for what it's worth. |
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| Looks like the specifications are in the manual and I must have quit caring about them when we got a tractor that could handle most any hydraulic requirements. I am just going to type this up as a direct quote from the Deere 1910 manual: Tractor Hydraulic System Requirements: Operation of the hydraulically driven fan requires tractor to have either a load sensing hydraulic system or a closed-center hydraulic system with flow control. These types of hydraulic systems usually have large oil reseroirs and increased oil cooling capacity. They deliver the oil flow needed for the fan motor to maintain fan speed at the selected RPMs without surging. Tractors with open center hydrualic systems are not recommended. Hydraulic system requirements
Number of SCV's (min.): 1 - Fan/Auger
Gallons-per-minute: 17.3 to 26.6 GPM - Fan Important: In addition to these requirements, tractor MUST be equipped with a low-pressure drain line connection for the fan motor case drain. Prevent fan motor damage. Sump pressure MUST be less than 25 psi. Note: See Recommended Tractors and Tractor Hydraulic Compatibility for further information. Verify tractor hydraulic system meets all requirements. After all of this there is a chart. I'll try to put some of the important stuff in here in a manner that is readable, but it's not going to be as nice as the chart in terms of formatting: For single shoot: If you have 5 primaries and require 3500 RPM you'll need 17.3 GPM @ the SCV and 1130 pounds of pressure at the SCV If you have 6 primaries and require 4000 RPM you'll need 20.7 GPM @ the SCV and 1350 PSI at the SCV If you have 7 primaries and require 4200 RPM you'll need 22.2 GPM & 1440 PSI at the SCV If you have 8 primaries and require 4500 RPM you'll need 24.6 GPM & 1590 PSI at the SCV For double shoot: If you have 5 primaries and need 4200 RPM you'll need 21.8 GPM & 1720 PSI at the SCV If you have 6 primaries and need 4500 RPM you'll need 24.2 GPM & 1810 PSI at the SCV If you have 7 primaries and need 4750 RPM you'll need 26.0 GPM & 1900 PSI at the SCV If you have 8 primaries and need 5000 RPM you'll need 26.6 GPM & 1930 PSI at the SCV Important: Marginal tractors would perform better at lower rates and lower operating speed. |
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| I will say that Deere carts that are made today are similar in design to the old Flexi-Coil carts, but the fan is much larger. Therefore, I would expect the older Flexi-Coil carts to have lower requirements. |
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| I should note that our cart is a 350 bushel cart (front tank 150 and rear tank 200). I dont' know if fan size is different on different size carts but it appears from the manual that the answer is no.
Edited by dpilot83 3/27/2012 19:21
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| I guess the amount of splits the air and material have to make would make a big difference on the fan's needs. I think I can run directly from the meter to a secondary distributor. It would'n have to be very tall either. Thanks for the information. Both the JD and Steiger have closed center, but I dont know if the Steiger has the high flow pump or not. Likely not as it is an old one, but the previous owner had it on air seeder duty. |
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SC Ont. | Have a 9300 and pull a 36 ft. JD air seeder and have the same overheating problems, put our old 8560 on, pull it all day long on the hottest days no problem. |
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se montana | was told when you run a seeder that requires active down pressure, that the requirement is for psi, there fore causing the Deeres to kick out psi, first, then volume as the next requirement there by creating the heating isse with certain tractors, so the high volume is run at the high psi rate causing the heat issue |
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Lantry, SD | Old Pokey, I just bought a bigger pump from atom jet for my versy- atom jet said that a flexicoil/concord cart takes about 15gpm. My JD 1900 cart takes about 26gpm according to Atom jet. The 18gpm pump I had on it ran my old air seeder just fine, but struggled with the JD when the oil got hot. For what it's worth, I will have a 18gpm belt drive pump for sale in about a week, it has about 100 hrs on it. |
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| 11gpm difference? WOW. So a guy really needs to pay attention to the cart build and the tractor specs before he buys. Thanks. |
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Leeds, North Dakota | Daniel, most grain carts psi isn't the issue, gpm is, with JD they threw a twist into things, drills needed high flow low psi, as your chart shows, thus overheating hyds, Scott. |
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| I am not sure what you are trying to say. In the first part you said with most carts flow is more limiting than pressure. In the next part you said John Deere carts threw a twist in to it by requiring more flow than pressure. Sounds the same to me.
The reason it's important to understand that 2700 psi is never required is because some tractors (a lot of tractors actually) can't make 2700 psi. If you have the flow requirements met but you incorrectly believe you need 2700 psi, you may end up upgrading tractors for no reason. |
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Leeds, North Dakota | Yes you are correct, older tractors with open center systems 2500 psi to get gpm struggle, what I meant is newer tractors have appx 2700 psi with high flow or mega flow, sorry for the confusion, Scott. |
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SW Sask | On the FlexiCoil carts, the air goes from the fan (in front of the tank) into a plenum and the metering system, heading towards the rear axle. This configuration is the same for tow-between and tow-behind. But on a tow-behind, the lines run back towards the front of the cart, and up and over the front caster. So you basically turn the product 180 degrees, and have to lift it higher. That's why they are considered to have a little higher energy requirement...
dan |
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Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | +1 Now it makes sense.
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Hydraulic GPM to run fan on large air seeder?
