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Chebanse, IL..... | Seems farmer-owned liquid applicators are becoming more popular...might be a here thing. F.A.S.T. is selling quite a few in this area. A few yrs back we were sidedressing (injecting w/a liquid injector tip) w/a mounted bar, vs the pull-types FAST etal are now selling. There were a few problems associated w/sidedressing liquid that may have been corrected by now? Or-do they still exist? Spatter-We tried lo-press (20#?) med press & hi press (80#). All seemed to give us spatter at times depending on how rough the dirt was, whether you hit rocks, or how windy it was. Does this bother anyone? Re. spatter, I understand that now a few/some/many are utilizing a small liquid knife that follows immediately behind the coulter to place the liquid a couple inches below the surface. Yetter used to have something like that for their planter starter fert. coulter. But, keeping it clean was sometimes a problem if soil was wet/trashy. They even had a knife that bolted to the coulter. But it could still slide the coulter in some conditions. Is that a problem w/knives? Pumping speed. Seems it used to take much longer to pump UAN (we had 28 & 32) than just water. You could easily eat your dinner while filling 1000 or 1200 gal tank. I see FAST now has 1600 gal tank. Can anyone fill these quickly? Wing penetration. In hard soils, the wings would sometimes "ride up". There just wasn't enough weight out there to push in the # of coulters trying to ride up. Is that a problem for anyone? Rust. You'd park applicator @ night & the next a.m. it looked like it had been sitting out for 30 yrs on the deck of an ocean freighter. Is this a long-term problem? Any experiences either way? Thanks
Edited by Ron..NE ILL..10/48 6/3/2007 07:24
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Croswell, Michigan | Ron, I bought an older applicater this winter and rebuilt it. I put new Yetter coulters w/knives on it. I think the key to keeping trash build up on the knife is to maintain less than 1/4" clearence between the knife and coulter. On mine the tank goes up and down when the toolbar is raised and lowered so that transfers some weight to the bar to keep it in the ground. The wings can be locked down which seems to help keep the ends from riding up. The only thing on mine is that you have to get off the tractor to put the pin in and take it out. |
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South-central Nebraska | Ron,
I run a DMI 2800. I was running 47 gallons of fert solution preplant 9 mph at 75-80 psi. I run coulters 7.5" off of the row a good 4 inches deep. A jet injects liquid behind it. If it is in line with the coulter, splatter is minimal except at the ends where I am often dropping it while kicking on the pump.
We currently fill with a two inch fill. Could go to a three because we have two points of entry into the tank. I suppose 10-15 minutes per fill. Gives a little time to get out and stretch, adjust nozzles, check over the machine, get a drink etc.
The DMI uses a hydraulic down pressure system that keeps the wings penetrating pretty well. Much better than just wings relying on gravity.
Yes, the fertilizer is corrosive. If I come in at night and will not be fertilizing the next morning I often rinse things off. Between preplant and sidedress it gets a good cleaning. After season we repaint the coulters with spray paint.
Millhouse |
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East Central Wisconsin | I had the spatter problem with our Fast 8100,but to reduce it i changed the orfice plates. There are two orfices in by the check valve.There is one that holdes the spring(for check valve) and one as an outlet. I have the orfice before the check valve about 1/3 to 1/2 smaller then the outlet hole. That way there is a big preasure drop after the first orfice and alot less spatter coming out of of the tip.The smaller first orfice will help keep rate even in the lines. I am alot bigger on the orfices then what it came with it also(run 40-50g/ac of 32%)
On ours i have to hit the hydraulics switch from time to time so there is preasure all the time to keep the wings in the ground.
I have it with the biggest Ace pump(Raven 440 setup"love it") on the 8100 to apply with and is used to help fill the 1000g and 500g saddle tanks with a honda 3" pump on truck
This year i am installing air lines into the 3/4" main lines so i can bleed the 32% out before i fold it.The 32% got on the folding rams and the rods are pitted bad that i had to by new rams from Fast. I am going to use a ExtremeAire 12 volt air compressor for the air supply
I love our 8100(16row) for four reasons
Tall tires(46")
short wheel base for hills and corners
low center of gravity(1000g tank)
The cylmer coulters are built to last.I have four season on them and have only changes the coulter blades last year running 1300-1550ac per year
The Kid |
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Cen IL | Ron, go with the coulter-knife as john pointed out and splatter is then a non-issue. I can refill the 850 gallon tank on my dmi 2800 in under 4 minutes if I run my honda pump wide open. A hydraulic powered ace pump coupled to a raven 440 is slick setup. When ordering new, it is cheaper than going with the ground drive pump. It is much safer than AA and the eco system of the soil will thank you for it. jeff P.S. I use only 32% , not 28. |
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Caraway, AR | Ron, "Here" the Liquid rig of choice would be built around yetter colter w/ knife .(no splatter) As has been already stated, running as close as possible to keep from pluging. John Blue pump, running through Red Ball's and then orfices, located about a foot above the knife @ about 20 PSI (enough to equalize flows across the width of the tool) It would be 3 pt mounted with tractor carrying fert onboard ( I carry 750 gal in 900 gal tanks) To much weight to carry full. It would be a wing type rig (40' wide) w/hydraulic wings that lock down. (wings shouldn't ride up)( 12 row) Some have high clearance pull-behind tanks.(1000) Pumping speed: That is an issue. Even with a 6.5 hp and large cast iron pump probably takes 15 min to pump 750 gal. Transports have 11 hp X 3" pump. About 30-45 min to off load 4600 gal. Rust: yes rust, especially when carrying on tractor. Keep all leaks fixed, best as possible, wash on days off and the big one at the end of season. My rig is about 20yrs old.have to have a torch handy if I need to lossen most bolts on the coulter area. Still, way more Urea goes out on cotton and corn around here.......maybe 80% total useage is urea. At the first of the season we thought there might be a shortage of urea, so many bought nurse tanks for 32 just in case urea ran out. Of course.......the only shortage........ was the money to pay for the stuff........, but were used to that arn't we? Have a good day, John |
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East Central Wisconsin | Speed!!
With this type of injection system (no knife) i run 5-8mph any time and could go 10-12mph if i had to.
The Kid |
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| I have made a homemade sidedressing rig a few years back. I hang saddle tanks on the 4630 to carry 400 gallons. I used an old Taylor Made culivator and hung 13 yetter 2995 knives off of a planter. They were in a pile at a farm auction that someone said they were useless. I have never had one plug up in 10 years. Not even on the planter. I sidedress 12 rows and the two outside coulters put on half rate. I have tee jet orifaces on a wet boom I made. I run 19 pounds of pressure with a ace centrifical pump. This puts on 35 gallons at 5 mph. If i need 50 gallons I have the orifaces for that also. I never get a drop of 28 anywhere because if goes right through the knife and into the ground about three inches deep. I sidedress three hundred acres of corn a year and takes about three days. (Moving around from field to field.)
I pump the 28 from a Co-op tank pulled with the pickup. it fills both tanks from the bottom. I really like the rig because it runs a very minimal amount of corn over. I can usually turn in about 8 or 10 rows in the end rows. If you get out and sidedress when the corn is about 3 to 4 inches tall the corn will stand back up.
Just have the small guy does it!
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The Original Lock Springs Rver Rat | Ron the best solution I came up with was to just buy an old NH3 bar with coulters and mount thin liquid knives to the standard shanks.We bought a Yetter 1600 gallon all wheel steer wagon to pull behind same as you would if running an NH3 tank.We use a hypro pump mounted below the tank and a little Spraymate controller,works well over a wide speed range. A good pump and three inch hose is about the best you can do to fill,maybe there is something better?
Edited by Don NMO 6/3/2007 10:34
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Chebanse, IL..... | Kid I see Clymers run round shanks anchored by 2 straps. Can you clamp them tight enough to keep them from moving (offsets)? Does the UAN not affect the bearings in the Clymers? Do you run knives behind the coulters? Or-just inject from above the ground? The wing tips fold hydraulically (16r), then I believe the 2nd section (inboard) has the hyd down pressure ability....right? So-what do you do about keeping pressure on the tips? Seems cylinders would creep out after a while. So-what tip pressure are you experiencing @ 50 gpa of 32 @ ?? mph? I assume you'll have to put an air supply tank on to get the volume you need to blow out all lines? Elec pumps are fairly slow recuperating....right? I assume you're nursing out of a semi? Thanks |
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Chebanse, IL..... | jdg You must have big hose & good pump. 200 gpm pushing UAN. Seems like a lot to me. What size hose-how far-what size Honda/pump? |
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The Original Lock Springs Rver Rat | This was a 13 row applicator,we added a shank and coulter to each end and cylinders to fold over the outside shanks,same as our 15 row NH3 bar.You can see the hypro pump mount on the wagon.
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 6-3-07 002 (Small).jpg (75KB - 1264 downloads)
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Hillsboro, AL | We were not happy with our pull type applicator and built this rig last winter. It uses Dawn 3004 units on a John Deere 845 flat fold bar. We removed the trash wheel from the 3004, because they were racking to much residue onto the corn row.
We are getting more splatter than I want to see. We are running liquid tubes to a bushing in the stock Dawn dry tube. We helped the problem by putting the liquid hose farther into the tube. I think Dawn now has a different liquid tube available. Jim can comment on that if he wishes. 
The Dawn 3004 is made much like a John Deere 750 opener with a heavy single disk blade running at an angle. Dawn has the option of a closing wheel. I don't know if the closing wheel will make much difference with UAN, but would certainly be needed with UAH.
Our ground is too uneven to lock the wings down. We let them float. 400# of suit case weights on each wing took care of any penetration problems this spring and we were dry at the time. 
We fill with a 2" pump with 2" hose. 3" would be nice I guess. I have video of the unit running here and here. The videos are large and not recommended on dial up. We are running 7.5-8 mph in the video using RTK auto steer.
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East Central Wisconsin | Our 8100 is a three section bar for 16 rows(we don't need the double fold).With the raven i can run 4,8,12 or 16 rows with the three switches on the 440. If you plan on running between the rows i would recommend going with a 17unit applicator.The reason why is if you skip the guess row(15 unit) the ouside row needs to be double to get anough on it(guess row same rate as others) then the next row in is 1 1/2 rate. Or if you put rate and a half on out side unit the guess row is then at 3/4 rate and 1 1/4 on next row.
We have 16 clymer units on our 8100 that i run the 32% 8" on the other side of the row that the planter runs it's 2 X2(15 units of N). The planters 2X2(jd 1770 single disk) is on the outside of the row and the 32%(side dress)is on the inside of the row. This way, i can have all the orifices the same size because each cylmer is feeded ONE row not TWO.The check valve orifice is a 161(ss flat disk) and the out let is a 30. I may go to a 40 on the out let tip this year to help get more of a preasure drop and to help the spatter even more
With the single fold i just need to tap the hyd from time to time to keep the wings in the ground. I have yet to change a bearing in the cylmer after 4 years of use. The injection system is out of the ground,no knifes in ground.I think i can run faster that way if i have too.I run 5-8mph with no problem and could go faster if needed.We use a JD 8000 series tractor with front wheel drive, and i think it is the BEST tractor for the high speeds for seeing the front tires hitting corn
I have two rows that i need a offset because i am 8 " off the row and just tacked them with a weilder to keep them from moving
I have not run it yet this year so i don't know what the preasure is but i like to keep it under 50 psi at 50g/ac.I think the higher th preasure the more it spatters
There are some strong 12volt air compressors systems out there, here are some links
http://www.oasismfg.com/p3.html
http://www.4by4connection.com/exco.html
http://www.4x4connection.com/tech/extremewiring.htm
I plan on having a 12 volt solenoid valve on the air tank tank to bleed the lines from tractor cab before folding(DEMA 400 series brass body solenoid)
I use a semi drop deck trailer with three 1500g tanks on it for 32% supply that the coop fills at field.I can do around 35ac per fill (41g/ac corn on bean ground) and 150-200 ac per day on a big day
Hope this helps
The Kid
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Central Illinois | Ron,
were running a fast 8100 24 row with yetter 2995 coulter with a knife behind, absoulutly no splatter, washed applicator once all year because blew a hose other wise applicator clean after 2300 acres and 80000 gallon applied. As far as staying in the ground on our strip till about 4 inches deep 8mph was about top speed for good penetration, but chisel cornstalk ground 9 to 10 mph was fine with no buildup on the knives, As far as filling the 1600 gallon tank with 3inch lines from our tanker with a hydralic flomax 15 in about 7 to 8 min.
Edited by tjm71 6/3/2007 21:23
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Archer Iowa | or you guys could stop using the 28 and 32 % so you don't have the salt problems and use less gallons. your soil,plants and equipment will all be better off. |
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Chebanse, IL..... | tjm Any guess on tip pressure w/typical gpa @ those speeds? How about knife wear? Any blockage between knife & coulter? Did you buy 8100 w/no coulter? I think they supply Clymer as std equip. That's pretty fast filling UAN also. |
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Central Illinois | Ron
Fast set the bar up at gilman for me with the yetter coulter at no extra charge, I like the yetter because of the parrellel linkage always keeps the knife flat with coulter as spring is compressed, as far as tip pressures with the knife we run orrfices and soulution flows to knife with minimal preasure ran 15 gal to acre at 9mph at 20psi and 33 gal to acre at 9mph at 85psi with the same orrfices. knife wear after 100 acres per coulter looks ok adust up to coulter and run same knives next year. And yes them 3 inch hydralic pumps on tanker are fast we can pump off whole loads 4800 gallon in about 22 min. Just talk to mark over at fast hell set ya up. Also ran raven 450 controller with hydralic pump
Edited by tjm71 6/3/2007 22:36
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Near-north Ontario, French River | One thing to consider if you have any stones at all is the need to constantly re-adjust the knives on the coulters. When a coulter hits a stone , it it obviously jumps up to clear the stone but when it reneters the soil, the knife is frequently knocked out of adjustment. Its not a real serious issue unless running in heavy residue as well, as when the knife is knocked out of adjustment it opens the gap between the coulter and knife which may or may not lead to residue plugging. |
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West central Ohio | Running a pull type FAST 1000 gallon 11 coulter applicator. Apply 1 1/2 rate on end coulters. Has Clymer coulters with narrow knives and active down pressure on wings. Seldom need to use down pressure. Rides well on 14.9/46 tires. Run 6 to 10 mph applying 30 to 43 gallons 32% with John Blue pump in no till. Pull it with 2wd Deere 7830 with EZ steer on RTK. No problems plugging in soy stubble. I could see where stones could be a problem with the knives. We have few stones bigger than a volleyball. Bent 2 knives as they have worn thin. Have about 2500 acres on rig and it will soon be time for new knives and coulters. Sure beats the splatter and spatter injectors on the Blue Jet I used before. Blue Jet unit was ok, just didn't like their injector or knife setup. My next one will have hyd driven pump and a Raven controller. |
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Liquid 28% sidedress applicators
