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sw wi | The local dealer mounted up the single closing wheels on the new planter, stopped to check how it was coming...he had the Dawns in the front hole on the left side of the planter and in the rear hole on the right with the rubber tires in the opposite. I questioned him and he said it doesn't make any difference, he has set many up that way. We debated it for quite awhile, he didn't really want to change them, but I insisted. The rear mounted will dig deeper than the front mounted...correct? |
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| 5230 - ...he had the Dawns in the front hole on the left side Maybe he heard about Dawn's left leaning political views and mounted them accordingly. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | There are various logics to having the Curvetines in the front or rear holes however they should certainly be consistent on RH and LH sides of the planter. Someone just made a mistake, probably two mechanics working on it. Joe likes the Curvetine in the front, I like it in the rear. One thing you could do is to try it as it is, see which way you like it best and change the other side to match yourself. Using Timken tapered roller bearings as we do, the Curvetine installation is not a quick impact wrench job like the OEM rubber tires, but I think it is worth the effort at initial installation when you see the stand you get. jmho. Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 3/27/2011 08:59
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Aberdeen MS | . |
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| We could make a fun wager out of it, betting the proverbial steak dinner. |
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NE MO & W IL | I tried mounting them in the rear hole yesterday and it wouldn't work as it hit the rod that holds the spring tention handle. JD 1760. Looks like front hole is all that will work for me, am I missing something? thx |
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| Ah you can mount it in the rear hole but you will have to put the other wheel in the front hole. The pin will slide over and there is one side you can mount fro |
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| Most people will NEVER run as much down pressure with 2 Curvetines as is shown in these pictures so don't do it. This operator likely has the lighter spring that we sell. These were taken a couple of days ago. They are getting done with Corn and will move to Cotton next.
Edited by joeatdawn 3/27/2011 10:42
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 ct la 1.jpg (60KB - 314 downloads)
ct la 3.jpg (60KB - 333 downloads)
ct la 0.jpg (57KB - 322 downloads)
ct la 2.jpg (35KB - 311 downloads)
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Fairbury, NE (Southeast) | Dude, that looks like Mars :>0 |
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Seneca Kansas 66538 | Ditto, thought I had some rough stuff to plant into. I would dread planting that unless it had water at will. |
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south central Iowa | I thought everyone needed drag chains with spiked closing wheels. I am waiting delivery of martin single side spiked wheel and was told by dealer to also run drag chain as well. Maybe curvetine doesnt need that?
Edited by stormchased1 3/27/2011 11:13
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St. Charles, MO & Piper City, IL | They suggest they don't. But in conditions like that you do in my opinion. |
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Aberdeen MS | I fail to see how politics relates to closing wheel....go grind your axe in the boiler room. |
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| You know I haven't studied the drag chains at length because we generally don't use them. My impression is that the idea of the drag chain is to pull the soil back in over the slot that has been thrown out by the wheel. The curvature of the tooth on the Dawn Curvetine doesn't tend to throw the soil out in the same way. The drag chain may also have some effect of breaking it up a bit more. Keep in mind that in most soils you really don't want it to be super fine over the top of the seed. If you get a hard rain it can collapse into a sort of dense area that isn't going to allow air to permeate as well. Soils or media that allow for good movement of air and water are a good thing whether younare growing orchids or corn. If you notice these Curvetines are mounted side by side and I think you would get even better action with them staggered. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | In this type of crusting soil condition and especially planting a crust-averse, weak seedling but very expensive crop like cotton the last thing you want behind the planter is a smooth surface! The photos above look a bit rough and not like the kitchen garden however if we can get good seed to soil contact by closing the slot at the BOTTOM but still leave if rough and ugly on top that seed is much more likely to have a spot to emerge. The way it is shown in picture 0 will most likely not crust over completely even if there is a moderate rain between planting and emergence. In the soil conditions pictured and as ugly as it seems, I think picture 0 is a good job of planting cotton. I would not use a drag chain to smooth it any further in the condition pictured or there will likely be major emergence issues. Seed to soil contact with a surface that provides mini fractures for the seed to emerge is the way to plant cotton. jmho and experience. Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 3/27/2011 12:42
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north Iowa | Ordered some Dawns and have them in the shop but not on. Plan only to use them in my no till field. Maybe that's wrong but most of planting is tilled and have not had problems. So what do I do, put the one in the front hole or back. There should be a clear cut way. No time for experiments in the spring. Going to be bad enough changing them out mid season. Thought the experiment was done, that's why I bought the Downs. Please advise. BTW I did over look the fact you might be OK with O. I am as conservative as they come but its a free country and glad it is. |
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| the reason there isn't a definite always correct setting is because it is an adjustment just like anything else. If the vast majority of your ground is conventional I would put the Curvetine in the front hole and the rubber in the back. There is not reason to take them on and off between tillage conditions. Running the Curvetine in the back and the rubber in the front makes the Curvetine more aggressive, relatively. |
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West Central Wisconsin | Jim or Joe, not to change the subject on the front hole/back hole issue but what are your thoughts on side placement when using one curve tine? I like a friends suggestion of the rubber wheel on the same side as the fertilizer disc so the curve tine would be running on the undisturbed side. Any thoughts on this? Thanks, Joe. |
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Iowa City, IA | Just to clarify these guys are planting milo into bean stubble. These photos are from near Alexandria, LA. Cotton doesn't grow particularly well there, so a milo/bean rotation is common. This ground is tight. They are actually using the standard JD spring. Sometimes they need even more down-pressure than the picture shows.
Edited by rodatdawn 3/27/2011 13:52
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Northeast SD | Im with Greywolf go to the boiler room so I dont read your garbage |
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Iowa City, IA | By the way the crust at the surface is oddly deceiving. Below that crust the soil is like terra cotta. Very wet and very sticky. The sun seems to bake the surface only. They say it does get drier over the summer. This field used to be part of a bayou. You can see the bayou waters creeping in on that last photo.
Edited by rodatdawn 3/27/2011 14:05
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| What type of fertilizer opener will you be using? |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | JoBob, I like that approach of having the Curvetine on the undisturbed side and the rubber tire on the 2x2 fertilizer coulter side, especially in the heavy clay of many areas of WC WI. If the single angle disk OEM fertilizer coulter can be shifted so it is still putting fertilizer down 2" to the side of the seed but fractures TOWARD the seed rather than away from the seed this method works even better. Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 3/27/2011 14:01
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | My suggestion is to put them on now, rubber in front, CT in rear and go regardless of tillage system. Even in the most highly tilled ground, there will be wetter areas of the field that will profit from having the sidewall compaction "chipped in". And there is no reason to stop to change Curvetine closing wheels in mid planting season! We have many of these working in all sorts of different tillage systems. The Curvetine operates very differently from several of the other "spike" closing wheels on the market. Unfortunately they are often all lumped to gether in people's minds when in fact they use different principles of action. That is one of the challenges in closing wheel design: making a closing wheel that "works" and at least doesn't hurt you across the wide range of tillage conditions we see these days, many times even in the same field. I think the tillage "purists" are becoming fewer and fewer. One thing to be aware of however is that a Curvetine has much less surface area in contact with the soil at any given moment than a standard rubber tire. The Curvetine doesn't require anywhere near the amount of spring closing pressure that a rubber tire does. Running one of each (rubber + CT) you will use less spring pressure than you do with two rubber tires. since oyu are mostly in worked ground, I would strongly urge you to change the tail piece spring to the lighter JD "half rate" spring available through JD dealer parts counters. This makes the range much more useable and you will still have plenty of down force for whatever conditions you are likely to run into. This lighter spring is JD part number A-61582. Regards, Jim at Dawn |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | SweetPete, it's a location specific deal....
I've run 2per row for more years then I can remember, but it came as a suggestion from Jim after he'd came and setup a neighbors planter....
So with that said.... you've got a couple of choices,--
--find somebody nearby that running then and see what he does
--set you planter up split between a couple variations, go out a week or so ahead of normal and try it out.... Then set all accordingly? (that's how I do my row cleaners to get the initial starting point)
-- set them and forget them....that's still probaly way better then the OEM setup....and what most of us that had the earlyu DAWN recs.... |
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| My early 1760 has the ME 2 row units, so I can't stagger the wheels, is there any problem running them, (one of each), side be side? Is it really worth upgrading to the newer tailpiece? I am also running Sunco fert openers, although considering taking them off and just dropping the fertilizer on top behind the closing wheels. |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | Roger, I stream fert right in front of the DAWN CT's.... very pleased. |
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Pocahontas, Ia | loran - 3/27/2011 13:47 Roger, I stream fert right in front of the DAWN CT's.... very pleased.
Is your "stream" in the V slot off to the side or T band?
32% ? |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Its ok to run the CT side by side. Most of our customers do. The main reason to change the old sheet metal tailpiece would be if it is worn and too much motion side to side. Changing to a boly-on style tail piece rather than the studs on your 7200 style me2 would also let you run our Timken bearing version of the Curvetine rather than the ball bearing version we are forced to use on the JD stud tailpieces that you currently have. Jim at Dawn |
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| Mine are getting a little worn, but I was leaning toward the RK products fix. |
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| Hadn't thought of that. How much do you put on and are you worried about fert getting to your bearings? |
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| Do you have a check valve in your tubes so it doesn't drain out whenever you stop or turn around? |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Totally-Tubular.net has tubes to drop fertilizer either in front or behind the Curvetines. In front as Loran is doing incorporates better but behind gives you less fertilizer on the planter, especially at higher rates such as when putting down 10-20 gal/a of 28%. Jim at Dawn |
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south central Iowa | I just put those on my planter and they look great. The price is right too. |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=18664&posts=12&highlight=planter%20pic&highlightmode=1#M128329
here is the post back when I put mine together.... I have Stainless T's with elbows on now. the Plastic becomes brittle and breaks.
Then on the bottom of the elbows, I have 4 inch rubber tubes....
We are about 1.5 on each side of the row. I normally run 10gal of N... split on each side. |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | DAWN has good bearings and seals.... *GRIN*
Seriously though.....drift hasn't been a problem. I have an orfice up in front of the toolbar and an ovesized hose going back and making a Loop...then oversized again and the rubber tubes are as close to the ground as I can get them with out rubbing. |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | Yep, regular sprayer QT body with a stainless orifice..... Raven/tanks on the tractor |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | try these--The middle pic specifically....shows the Fert line, high above the planter toolbar.
Edited by loran 3/27/2011 16:06
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tubes.jpg (48KB - 292 downloads)
tubes.jpg (49KB - 310 downloads)
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south central Iowa | Wow, thats some kind of residue. If I tried no till corn on corn around here Id have a hard time paying my bills. I dont see how anybody can make that work, but I guess u do. |
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West Central Wisconsin | My friend who suggested this is running Kinze double disc/liquid but w/o NT coulters. I just bought CT's to put on my new to me Kinze single disc w/dry and NT coulter. Joe |
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N/E Iowa | I have a 1760 (vac) totally tubular putting down 5 gallon in the row, and we work our corn on beans with finisher, and some corn on corn, But we no till roughly 300 acres of soybeans..... Question is i want to run one dawn curvetine, I think the best would be up front, O.E.M. in the rear, do i have to change the spring on the closing wheels? and I run heavy duty down pressure on my planter 2nd notch on work ground and 2nd or 3rd on no till, I never go to the forth hole, thats when damage happens!
I have "lighter" soils, and alot of "variable soils"....... I take it's to late to get 12 of them by April 15th??? Thanks for any reply's |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | When running in worked ground many folks get by just fine with one OEM rubber and one Curvetine per row. PErsonally when running one of each I like to either run them both in the front hole or if staggered I like the rubber in front and Curvetine in the rear. CT in the rear makes it a bit more dominant. The advantage of one rubber + one Curvetine in worked ground is that the rubber acts like a depth band and lets you apply a lot of spring pressure without going too deep. As far as changing the spring goes, if you are using two Curvetines (or 2 other "spiked" closing wheels) on a JD 7200 or later into any worked ground I would definitely change to the lighter JD tailpiece spring. If you are using one Curvetine OR two Curvetines ALWAYS in to firm no till ground, then I would say changing to the JD half rate spring is optional but a good idea. The disadvantage of one 12" std rubber + one 13" Curvetine is that in a notill or firm soil condition the rubber holds the CT up from getting down and closing the bottom of the slot where we like it. There is only 1/2" of radial difference between the rubber and the CT. In worked ground not so much of an issue it firm not ill or stale seedbed it can be an issue. Here is a picture of what one CT + one rubber give you in stiff SE Wisc clay notilling 30" beans into 30" cornstalks. Guess which side is the rubber and which is the Curvetine? If you were a seed which side would you send roots to? Now this is better than two rubber tires, but would really be a lot better with two Curvetines. Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 3/27/2011 22:49
 (one rubber top plus one Curvetine bottom in heavy wet no till clay.jpg)
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one rubber top plus one Curvetine bottom in heavy wet no till clay.jpg (97KB - 328 downloads)
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Dawn Closing Wheels
