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| The Gelbvieh discussion below got me thinking, although I don't think I'm ready to venture into a 3-way cross just yet. As a Hereford and baldy guy, my limited experience with both Gelb and Char leaves the impression that Gelbvieh is not as docile as Charolais. Most Charolais calves I have been around out of baldy cows have been extremely docile, some actually seem more docile than Herefords.
A neighbor uses my corral each year to do his fall shots. He runs black and baldy cows with Char calves at side. The difference in the way his cattle work and the other neighbor's straight black cattle who uses my pasture there work through the same setup is like night and day. Those straight black Angus seem to be bouncing off the wall constantly.
I've always liked the product of a baldy cow bred to a Char bull. Years ago a neighbor bred Char to Hereford cows and that seemed like a good cross. I can imagine a black balancer Gelbvieh bred to a straight black or baldy cow would throw some nice big straight black calves. What about a balancer on Hereford cows? Seems that instant 3 way cross would bring about a larger frame black baldy calf than the traditonal Hereford/Angus X? Or would the color or markings somehow be off? Just letting my imagination wander on a cold winter day. |
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SE WISCONSIN | always did like the way a Charolais cross cattle finish out ,I prefer the angus/char cross but i have some herford/char crosses inthe lot right now ,would think having the 3 way cross with the balancer in a char cross system would bring some real growthy smokiey colored animals |
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North Cental Mo. | If all your wanting is docile cattle I suppose that is a good enough option. But as far as bulls go, if you want a black bull, get an Angus bull. I am not just pulling for the Angus breed, I just don't understand the fascination with the crossbred bulls. Even your Black Simmental, Black Limmi's and Black Herefords are basically crossed up animals are they not?
Roy |
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WY, OK | Yeah you are losing most of the hybrid vigor if you start with crossed bulls. The absolute best is going to be a white face cow with a Char. bull. I'll agree in general black angus can be rather crazy it is also a product of the owner. We had some black cattle come through that took us a year working them our way to calm them down, also have some red angus that are the same way, going to take a year to get them calmed down and used to our system. Any breed is going to go nuts if they have people yelling and running around them in a corral, it would be very interesting to compare the handling practices of the two you mentioned both in and out of the corral. There are also some people that can simply set foot in a corral and the cows are going to get wound up. |
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indiana | if i go with a gelb bull it will be a yellow or red whatever just so it is pure gleb i agree the balancer is not going to bring me what i am looking for David |
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| Guys, thanks for the replies.
My uncles used to use Thortensen Gelb bulls. There were a few other guys around who used Gelb at one time, don't know of any around here right now and I don't see Gelb calves go through the sale barns much anymore either.
Char crosses seems to hang in there but the vast majority of cattle marketed nowdays are straight black Angus. Heterosis is the only "free lunch" there is when it comes to producing heavy calves but it just is not used much any more.
I still lean toward Char as a potential terminal cross because of the disposition. The light color for calves born in my later calving season is another thing. I would not intend to keep any of the 3x offspring for replacements. |
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SC North Dakota | Replacements is the problem I have with all this crossbreeding. In my system I have straight bred black angus. My steers usually bring top dollar when I sell and so do my hiefers I sell for replacements. People buying hiefers to make into cows don't want a bunch of crossbreeding for the most part. The exception being an F1 baldy. |
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| John SD - 3/6/2011 13:22
Guys, thanks for the replies.
My uncles used to use Thortensen Gelb bulls. There were a few other guys around who used Gelb at one time, don't know of any around here right now and I don't see Gelb calves go through the sale barns much anymore either.
Char crosses seems to hang in there but the vast majority of cattle marketed nowdays are straight black Angus. Heterosis is the only "free lunch" there is when it comes to producing heavy calves but it just is not used much any more.
I still lean toward Char as a potential terminal cross because of the disposition. The light color for calves born in my later calving season is another thing. I would not intend to keep any of the 3x offspring for replacements.
are you certain most are 'straight black angus'??? This is where your gelb and gelb cross bulls (along with black simm) will fool ya, and keeps the calves black hided.
I go with a hereford/angus rotation on the herd here. I know according to the math, that this isn't the best for maximum heterosis. I see my neighbor's cattle getting bred to his 'home raised' bulls, throwing every color calf under the sun. Some of his bulls could be a 4 way cross. My feelings on getting too much?? lack of uniformity. Sure, the big un's are huge, and at the same time there are some real dinks. I wonder if the average is any better....
Since the real money comes when I can take a potload of identical steers or heifers in, and there are no 'sorts'. Are you feeding them, or selling calves?
I keep all my own replacement heifers, and this is why I don't go with more than two breeds. 'uniformity'. Years ago, I took in some 'share cows'. they were mostly hereford and hereford/angus bred to Char bulls. I also remember that first spring was a pretty tough spring to calve in, and those smokey calves had NO desire to get up and suck. They all weighed over 100 pounds, and I believe they were so dang stressed at birth that they just wanted to die. (I am sure the cow was feeling the same too!) I know there are better suited char bulls out there, these were what I was stuck with.
our business is a LIVE calf and a cow that's able to rebreed. My fall weaning cows all make the 50% 'cut'. The calves must weigh half the moms weight. I wonder if this is possible with a 1500# cow. (no creep. just grass) |
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indiana | i was thinking along the lines of a british cow base with a continental bulls i stll have a few chars cows left also and thought the gelb's would cross good but after i talked to a former gelb breeder on the phone today i think i might just use the angus and herfy crosses the baldy's always seem to sell good here David |
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New Ulm, MN | My bosses used to be Purebred Char, They sarted Crossing years ago, Heres the herd at the bunk this winter.
Edited by 2+2, MN 3/7/2011 12:48
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Gelbvieh vs Charolais question......
