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East Prairie, MO | Been looking at dozers, had my eye on a Case 850B and 850D. Also browsed around at D4H's and there's one locally that should be a decent price, seems to have a good undercarriage and is really clean, anything odd about them I should know about? What's the advantage to having the high drive tracks, is it less wear on the pads because there is more of them? TIA |
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Somerville, Indiana | Advantage is final drive is up out of the grit and free from being backed into stumps-final drive can be changed out in 8 hours by replacing just the component versus 24 hours labor with a flat track...Track will usually wear more as the pins and bushings turn three times each revolution instead of two, many will argue that...Cat doesn't make the D4H anymore, hasn't for 2 years probably more, may have a problem with parts eventually although Cat literature says they are going to be going back to flat tracks on all tractors smaller than the D8T...The oval track will back up a much steeper incline if that is a benefit to you, isn't to us on very many jobs...Disadvantage: another roller to keep up, the front idler assembly looks very strong but looks are deceiving...Be sure the front idler is free and doesn't rotate when you put a 4 inch block under one side of front of the track shoes and pick up the blade...$$$ in the front idler linkage that can't be seen...The apprx 6 inch chrome 'rod' isn't nearly as thick as one would think it is and can break at the front idler mount...D4H III is much more refined that the early models were.
If you are looking for a good all around Cat that is light enough to haul, parts always easy to find, can do a lot of work in a day without a lot of downtime, look towards a 6C...They are getting very reasonable, and have outside push arms instead of the worn tree on the six way blade...Good to level already loose dirt with but not good for heavy dirt work or clearing...JMO. |
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waterford ohio | Slow and way under powered. |
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sw corner ia. | don't forget the worn out hardbar equalizer that is so much fun to weld up/rebore on the 6H's and newer. I don't know what cat was thinking when they put that in there.
Late C with 3306T was an excellent tractor but manual brakes get tiring after long day. For real low use it will be a great value. Parts are available everywhere for these. Probably get one that is ok for less than 20G.
early C 76A's were a great tractor too. short on cooling but that never seemed to stop anyone.
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SE Texas | So Cat is going back to flat tracks. I had not heard that. That will be a good conversation piece. |
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MD. eastern shore. | I own a 88 model, we dont use it everyday so it works pretty good for us . We have a excavator to help clear because the d4h isnt a a very good clearing machine .Its a pretty reliable tractor overall just suited for smaller work with its 6 way blade. If you want to push trees and clear i would get a d6 with the outside pushing frame. |
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East Prairie, MO | Thanks for the answers, not really wanting to clear with it. I have a lot of ditch banks that need dressing up and would use it to go around the tree lines tucking them up. Also would work on lots of field drains and such. Just farm dozer use. Definetly not an every day use machine.
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| We've got one of the very early serial numbers either late 87 or early 88. It's had a few odd problems with the transmission shift valving and still... every so often it will not shift when it's good and hot. Other than that... transmission broke a planetary at ~2500 hours... a freak thing that Cat partially covered even though it was well outside warranty. Other biggest issue is it's propensity to overheat. The close finned folded core rad was't their brightest idea. It's got marginal cooling capacity when it's clean and when it gets dirty.... you stop to clean it. That can be daily. The only other thing ever broken on this one was the singletree (part that angles the blade) as it broke through the pin hole while bumping 24" Yellow birch... Once I reconstructed that and reinforced it... never been a problem since.
I'd also agree with the sentiment that it's an underpowered machine. Some don't like to admit that her weight class is somewhere beetween a 5C and 6C (and closer to a 6)... but she just doesn't have that power... so what you got is a big, heavy unmanuverable dozer with clutch and brake steering. I've often though that if it had more cooling and you gave it more fuel it would do a lot more work... and if it had differential steering it could actually turn under draft. That's the main problem I see with it. Otherwise it's been a pretty reliable machine. I'd not worry about the undergear design... or the inside push frame. It's been quite reliable since I made that one reinforcement.
I'd also not be shy to look at a Case 1150 variant with split drives or a Deere with a hydro if that's the class machine you want. The 4H is decent enough... it's just that it's of the old technology for that class and I'd say the more manuverable machines could far outwork it in tight quarters.
Rod |
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Central Kansas | Andrew..............you probably want something newer than mine. Here's my farm Cat, not the most powerful or fastest but always ready to go to work for me. I would not be without it.
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East Prairie, MO | I really am shooting for a 6 way blade no matter which direction I end up going on the deal, for the ditch work I want to do it's a must. I'm also trying to stay in that 20K range on money. Larry she looks like a hoss! |
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NW central IL | i just bought a d4h xl series 3, its got the heavier tree in the six way blade, 10 more hp, the larger torque converter and trans then the series 2's. the xl has the longer track, for more footprint.the early motors had the 3204, and the series 3's had a 3304 9Z series, which is the same as some D5h's at 120hp, so it should last........not sure if the heavier TQ converter and trans is same as the early 5h or not, but its like 2500 lbs heavier then the earlier ones, putting it at 25800lbs full of fuel, about 1000 lbs lighter then a early d5h. if its real doggy, it does have a manual pump on it, to take it up to d5 specs if needed, but i need to do my homework, if the trans and tq converter is the same as d5h first. not sure if its even needed.....i bought mine before christmas. only pushed snow with it..... i bought it to level waterways and build small dry dams. i really wanted a 5 , but couldnt find one worth the money, i figure this is really close. from what ive run a dozer, a six way blade is really nice for waterway work. |
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Eastern North Carolina | Go for the Case 850D.... 6 way blade, it's fast, Cummins 5.9 power, net HP around 85, weighs about 19K....
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south central Minnesota | We bought D4H LGP Series III two years ago, good dozer. We think it's a great fit for the farm, but it is not for big tree removal. The series three have several improvements over the others, the 3304 engine the biggest, heavier single tree, and heavier blade lift points. You will pay more for a cat but I had several people tell me that even deere and case are hard to sell later when they get older. I would shy away from a series 1 because you can have a series 3 for about the same money. I would say size wise you would have to look at a deere 650 or a case 850 to compare apples to apples. We went with the high drive because it is so much easier to fix and repair than a flat track.
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NW central IL | how wide are your shoes on the lgp? once i got my xl home it has 22" shoes on it.....the 650 deere is rated on at 18-20k lbs, same with 850 case.....d4h weigh 22.5-26k |
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south central Minnesota | I don't know how wide the pads are. I agree with your weights a D4H lgp weighs about #26,000. A D4H XL about #24,500. |
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Brazilton KS | Traditional Cat machines are underpowered for their weight (or heavy for their power, I guess it depends on how you choose to look at it) Our 1550 Case has the power of a 6 but weighs less then a 5. Then there are the times when they built two different tractors with the same base model...D6M is a lot different then D6R. 6M is more like the power/weight relationship most other mfgs build to. |
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NW central IL | on your pic, are you breaking the ground with ripper or disc before you work the waterways. do you know is the series 3 trans and tq converter the same as some d5h's?, they both have a 9z series motor. .....when pushing dirt, are you short hp or weight first? |
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NW central IL | yeah a d6m only has like 140hp same as some of the n's, i thought it was to save the six way blade maybe... |
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Iowa | This last harvest, back in Iowa, my Dad had some old waterways redone. The contractor uses D6R LGP($135 per Hr, I believe) and asked he if we were to "bushhog" and disc up the sod, he could do a much faster job and it wouldn't be so dang rough on him and his other operator. He says that with fresh sod, it just rolls up like carpet and is hard to "level out" in the field area, then is really bumpy, in reverse, going back for the next cycle/push.
We stopped combining, Dad got on the bushhog(did get stuck 3 times), I got the disc and went for about 4-5 hours. Next day, The D6R got way more done that first day, then they expected. Dad actually had them do more dozer work than he first thought, because they could be more productive, if we worked ahead of them(on waterways). |
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NW central IL | i thought id have the guys ripping next fall drag (shallow) through the waterways i plan on dozing to break it up. my little d4 has a valve for back so i could pull my own disc if needed |
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NW Ohio,near Findlay | When reworking waterways, kill with roundup at least a month before doing anything. It will not wash out. Then disk up and keep disced up before dozer, pan does anything. Will Save you so much time and final results will better. Can't grade sod. |
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NW central IL | i just wish i had sod left in my waterways....lol ....mine always start 15-20ft wide then sprayer man takes off about 1-2 ft a year. |
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south central Minnesota | We plow the ground down to the bottom of the top soil and let it dry a day or two then it works perfect, a heavy disk would work to, in that pic we are moving topsoil to build a terrace. |
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East Prairie, MO | Yes retento, I am heavily considering an 850 D just because of the engine, it's about $5000 higher than the D4 or the 850B but has a new bottom. Decisions decisions! |
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NW Ohio,near Findlay | Be sure to try the JD first. They can be very good, but can bite you in the pocket if there is trouble. Early ones had trans heat problems. Case would be less expensive to fix. Yes Deers has a good motor. |
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Somerville, Indiana | A 6R will do much more work in a week than a 6N will...After using both, you will park the 6N if you are looking for production...Look at the blade first, on the 6N it is only 30 inches tall, and ends are open for the 6 way blade to do its thing...6R blade is 4 feet tall, semi U blade with the ends curved forward and closed...No comparison whatsoever...We have had both here the last two years...In 2010 the 6N stayed for 4 hours, it was provided by Cat to make up for having to back order the correct rails for our 6D...So, as a by the way sort of thing, bolts holes are different in the rails of D6Ds consistant with whichever grade of rail is ordered...Have changed rails at least 10 times here, never ran into a bolt pattern problem before this fall...Previous owner of the 6D had Berco rails installed before he sold it...When we went to Cat rails the first pair came in with wrong bolt pattern, second pair came in a link too short, third pair fit...Took from Tuesday to Monday to get the rails right...Normally a next day thing as we ask to work in our rails when the track shop is between jobs so we get them back the next day.
Shouldn't have went off topic, jus sayin what our experience was and getting it the expensive way around...For light work the 4H to 6N and 6K series will grade just fine...For all around work to make money, they are harder to put on ajob here.
Edited by dave morgan 1/2/2011 22:51
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Somerville, Indiana | Weren't the 76As dry cutting clutch and brakes and the 10K series oil cooled?..The 6D has braking in the last 2 inches of the steering lever, pulls back easily, we don't use the foot brakes much unless we are winching then all the levers and pedals seem to get overused at once...Later 6s-10K series and 6Ds don't have a cooling problem here, but they were on the other end of the design era and have been improved little by little...Easy to get more power by installing more washers in the rear section of the pump...maybe a little too easy, but it really comes to life then.
And you are right about the 6Hs and beyond being tough on the hard bar pivot...They had a 7H tore down for a pivot repair at Wild Boar Mine, pulled everything from the cab forward off the machine to get to the pivot points, straightened the bores and welded in bushings=wider contact area.
Edited by dave morgan 1/2/2011 23:00
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NW central IL | yep i understand.... i have about 30 farms that need just the ditches pushed in, seeded, and small dry dams with standpipes install'd. my family has alot of farms that need some attention, and with land prices the way they are, we cant afford to watch the dirt wash away....i figure the d4 is something i can send my wife out with.
Edited by tj_farmer 1/2/2011 23:19
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East Prairie, MO | Well, even though this thread wouldn't necessarily lead me to do so I ended up buying the D4H at the auction today, hard to pass up when it's in my price range and 10 minutes from home. It went about $2000 cheaper than I expected and about $1000 less than I was willing to go sooooo I ended up hauling it home. I really think it will fit the bill well for what I'm wanting to do, seems to handle really well and steer precise, it loaded really easy. It is missing the engine compartment screens on both sides and since the fan blows in reverse I'm going to have to find some. Any phone numbers for me on places to check? I called Schafers at Wolf Lake but they don't have any dozer parts. |
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NW central IL | i had mine out pushing today, i was pretty happy with what it will push |
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Anyone have a Cat D4H?
