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Dalton, OH | I want to preface this by saying I'm not trying to start a color war. Just looking for some info. Here's the situation: I currently run a JD 9670 and trade combines every two years. Run a 630 platform and a 6 row corn head. My Massey dealer is an excellent dealer for service and parts. I purchase all of my hay equipment(Krone) from them and most of my tractors(Fendt). They haven't been in combine sales on any scale since the years of the Massey 750's. They have dcecided to get into combines. They brought in a 9695 for my neighbor to rent to own with a 6 row corn head and a 25 ft platform and they also brought in a 9795 to demo to everybody else with a 35 ft platform and a 8 row corn head. I'll start with my neighbor, whom I'm good friends with. On his 9695 he is lucky to get 4 mph out of the machine in 40 bu beans and he runs out of power. Any type of green stems or weeds and he plugs the rotor almost instantly. I've never plugged my Deere combine's rotor. In corn, its not much better as 4 mph is all he can go and he's out of power. He tried unloading on the go and almost stalled it in corn!! The dealer has been out and spent many hours trying to figure things out, but hasn't had any luck. Agco seems to be of no help either. Onto the 9795. I demoed it in corn last week and had about the same expierence. I was running 7.5 mph with our machine and a 6-row head unloading on the go in 165 bu corn. Tried the 9795 with 8 row head and about 4.5 was all it could do and I was at 3 mph unloading on the go. They wanted me to try it in beans and I told them I wasn't wasting my time with it. Here are my thoughts: I think the dealer doesn't have the machince setup correctly, but Agco reps have been out and confirmed its correct. Only thing they see that might be a problem is that the extra HP is not kicking in when you unload. I know some on this board run newer Massey's. How do they perform? Any suggestions? I was really hoping the Massey would run right with my Deere as I would rather purchase from this dealer than my Deere dealer. Thanks, Scott |
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Brazilton KS | I have one season of corn and a few hundred acres of beans experience with our 670. Settings certainly make a lot of difference, however if you are currently running a Deere rotor, you should be used to that. I'm a conventional guy, so it kind of took me a little to get used to.
In good cutting conditions I was cutting 45-50 bu beans 30' as fast as the cutterbar could handle it. I picked 12 rows of corn at 6 mph up to around 150 bu with no problem.
When it starts to rain, the thing really falls out of bed in comparison to conventionals.
I have a hard time figuring out how a 6 row head could possibly load either of those machines in any conditions, or an 8 row in anything short of high moisture, high yielding corn.
We have a C9. I think those machines have Sisu engines. Still, the hp is supposed to be similar. |
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Crawfordsville, Arkansas | I run a 9895. I wouldn't trade it for any of the other colors offerings right now. I spent most of an hour today crawling all over a brand new 8120 CIH on tracks. I saw some things that I like better than what I have but at the end of the day I still didn't see enough to make me want to trade.
I'd say that both machines weren't set up right. Wrong concaves, rotor setup or something. The book tends to be totally wrong with its suggestions. The book says to slow something down and in reality it needs speeding up. We run a rice rotor so that changes things up a bit also. I have picked corn with a 9790 with a rice rotor but that was in 2003-2004 and I was in 150-180 bu corn running anywhere from 5-6 mph unloading on the go. |
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Dalton, OH | My neighbor used to run a Deere 9510 with the same size heads. He thinks he could get more done with it than the 9695. I assume class 6 machines should be comparable from company to company as far as capacity goes. A 9695 should be comparable to a Deere 9670, correct?? |
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Brazilton KS | What is a rice rotor? Something more then just changing rods in concave and adding knives?
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Crawfordsville, Arkansas | Yeah its just more knives on the rotor. Double what you probably have. Wires in concave are different, spacing on the screens are different also. |
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north central indiana | This about says it all for the Massey we had running with us this year. All pics taken on different days. Massey ended up leaving and being replace by the galvanized grinderr, which isn't even galvanized anymore! Gleaner did run a lil better for being the exact same machine. Give me a Deere any day. Massey dealer is just so impressed that ya can reverse the rotor on a Massey!!!!! Who the hell wants to stop and reverse all the time. Massey=a very fair weather machine. Not good for us when 75% of our beans are not cut in "fair weather". I just see it and report it as it is around here on this farm. Don't make any decisions based on my account! Have a good one, DeereTopher
Edited by DeereTopher 10/10/2010 23:31
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BENTON, MO | Rice rotors use 6 complete rows of bars with 4 bars that have vains that reverse the direction of the grain. Regular rotors use 3 complete rows of bars and 3 half row of bars with 2 partial bars that reverse the direction of the grain. On a side note we have replaced the 2 partial bars that reverse the flow of the grain with bars that go in the same direction as the rest of the bars on the advice of our local MF tech. Said it would give you more power. Not a big difference but there is a difference. If you look on page 388 of the online agco parts book for a 9790 you will see what I mean. Most of our corn yielded 180-230 bushels and we have no trouble running 4-5 mile an hour with an 8 row head and unloading on the go. In soybeans its all over the board. Some sb will cut a lot easier than others. What I am in now is making 50 bushels and cutting around 4 mph. They have a lot of green stems. In sb that have matured right usually the cutter bar is what will limit my speed with a 30 foot head. |
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| Well if it was worth a darn Deere would have stolen the design and improved it. I learned my lesson years ago NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Kansas | Scott, Absolutely nothing wrong with the MF Axial Combine. Even if the combine was set up wrong, running on two cylinders, with the unloader on, and with the parking brake activated the machine would perform better than that. Why don't you start by tell us how the machine was set up. Rotor configuration, concaves, and so on. Who was the AGCO rep. to verify? What motor and year? Masseypride |
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SE North Dakota | how did you like the unbelievable noisy cab and the noisy unloading system. What a joke. Shame on Agco for ever releasing something like that, I am embarrassed that they paint one of those things silver. We had a 9795 last fall for bean harvest. The thing was broke down more than it ran and I could not believe the cab. Agco will go broke trying to market that thing. You cannot compete in the market if you are going to put something like that out. Come Agco get it together. What were they thinking. |
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NW Washington | FWIW, the AGCO folks seem to be proud of the Gleaner rotor design and "reverse bars" because they made theirnewer Axial rotor machine rotors look a lot like the Gleaner rotor. I am not sure that was a step in the right direction. Seems to me that "reverse bars" would tend to plug up the works and I know that guys who tinker with their Gleaner to improve performance often take them out.
Maybe the AGCO lads should be looking at the other axial rotor machines for ideas instead of the crossway rotor Gleaners.
http://www.masseyferguson.com/agco/MF/NA/CombHarv/MF07010_ClassVIII... |
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Brazilton KS | I believe it should. I'm not sure exactly where Deere falls within classes. A 480 was considered a class 7 at the time, and a 670 is a class 7 and I think a 9750 is also, but the 480 is a heck of a lot more combine then either of the other two. I think the rotor design in the AGCO is less then optimum for tough conditions. In good conditions it can be too aggressive, and in tough conditions it just has an incredible appetite for horsepower. I have never had any problem getting complete threshing, in fact the problem is to keep from overthreshing. I think something to get the material through faster would be an improvement. Getting rid of the reverse bars, for starters, but then I think something like a specialty rotor (Kuchar) could improve performance. The Bison rotor even looks interesting...but it is "different" enough that I would like to see someone else running one. For that matter, I think the specialty rotor would be an improvement in an STS, too. At least it would not be so prone to damage.
Neighbor has a 9895 and reports that wet/drizzle conditions do not bother it at all...but he has a 20' corn head on a class 8 where I have a 30' corn head on a class 7...if I slow down to a comparably feed rate to what he can achieve relative to combine capacity, I don't have any power issues, either.
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Dalton, OH | That was exactly my dealers thoughts!! He is so darn impressed that you can reverse the rotor!! I see no need to do that. |
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Dalton, OH | I wish I could tell you the configuration, but he really didn't explain it to me and I know nothing about Massey's. I'm also not sure of the Agco reps name either. I'll do some digging and try to post back. I do know that both machines were 2011's. Couple of the first ones to rolls off the line. The 9795 was supposed to be at the Farm Science Review, but it didn't get built in time. Thanks, |
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| "I assume class 6 machines should be comparable from company to company as far as capacity goes. A 9695 should be comparable to a Deere 9670, correct??"
Unfortunately not. It's just not that simple in comparing combines. They are only comparable in power; that's where it ends. It then falls on the design of the processor and drive systems of the combine as to how efficiently that power is utilized to net capacity, and hp is not always going to be the limiting factor on a combine. It is entirely possible for a class 6 from one manufacturer, for example, to outperform a class 7 from another.
Now, to your situation. The Agco axial rotor is going to take more power in beans than a JD (an STS is a pretty good soybean combine and as an amusing sidebar to this discussion, the STS rotor concept actually came out of the old MF organization of the 1980s so don't laugh too hard green boys) so you would likely want to look at a 9795 to have just marginally more capacity than a JD 9670. Yes, settings do make all the difference here too and higher rotor speed is your friend. You should have more corn capacity than what you experienced. Unless you were running some type of chopping cornhead, you should have more power and more capacity in corn - here the Agco will be a bit more comparable to the JD. Difficult to speculate on the machine that you had - what exactly the issues were, but certainly sounds like it was shy on power (fuel filters, low boost, engine software, etc.). |
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Crawfordsville, Arkansas | You must have never had a rotor choke up then? Taking 2 hours to remove shields, drop concaves and have 2 or 3 guys with needlenose pliers pulling crop out of a rotor? A reversible rotor fixes all of that. I can cram more crop through my Massey with little to no fear that I'm gonna choke it up and waste a few hours getting it unplugged.
I've got a neighbor with a 2188, now a 7010. With his 2188 in rice if he choked up he told me it takes him and one other man over an hour to get it back running. Another neighbor has STS's. I've seen them head to the barn choked up and 2 days later it was finally back running. One other neighbor further to the west of me choked his 9760 STS and just took it to JD store and let them unchoke it. Another guy that rents a farm from my great uncle runs three 9770's and 25 foot drapers. He pushes his machines to the limits and beyond and more than a handful of times I've seen the JD dealers trucks surround his machines because it was choked up with damp down rice. Now I know rice is foreign to 99% of the guys on this forum but having a reversible rotor is just another tool to help get the crop out. If a reversible rotor isn't so great, then why is it now available on some of the CaseIH machines? Deere will come out with one in a year or maybe a couple of years and everyone will think they invented it and that its the greatest thing ever. Meanwhile lowly Massey and Agco will have had it since the mid 90's. |
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southeast Washington | I have run a Massey rotor for 12 years now and they are a great combine. Like anything there is a learning curve and this is not the first new combine dealer that has had problems on there first machines. I am cutting green soybeans right now and its raining every few days and have not pluged it yet. Have only plugged the rotor two times in 12 years. They are good machines just need to set it up right. And most of all cheap to keep in the field. I will bet they do not have the rotor gear box in the right gear there are three. |
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| What was the problem with the Massey? Looks like something serious happened if you had to pull the feeder housing. |
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| I agree that the unloader on the class 8 combine is noisy... can't really comment on the smaller ones and I seem to think the 6 and 7 machines now have the class 8 rotor? *shrugs*
Either way, that chain drive between the cross feed auger and the unloader auger really does get to whipping around and making noise, but with it unloading at 4 bushels per second, I never seemed to mind. Never had a failure with one either. If I can hear the radio, I'm happy. |
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north central indiana | Max, rocks actually caused this break down. All colors naturally hate rocks! BUT, if the same rock had entered the Deere, it would have only taken about 2 hours to replace the bent pieces on the feed accelerator. IT would not have taken 10 hours of nonstop labor and a very expensive feeder beater to fix the problem. And the feeder house would stay attached on the green one. We at this farm are very very color blind. We have Ford tractors, Massey tractors, Case Ih tractors Agco tracked tractors. Just somethings perform better in certain applications. And the Deere combines are hands down winners on our harvest run. The Massey combine that gets leased is cheaper than the green ones, but not sure if we will have it around for next fall or not. This is the second year we have leased a red one and might be the last. The 9760 bullet rotor I sit in all fall with a 45' MacDon FD70, will out run and out cut the Massey with a 40' MacDon FD70. At the end of a long day if the Massey stayed running all day, it will need almost a full tank of fuel the next morning. The 9760 can be topped off with about 130-150 gallons of fuel. That is a HUGE difference over a 2 month harvest. The Massey just hates tough conditions. Like I have stated before most of our beans are cut in tough conditions. But when the beans are frosted or just bone dry the Massey will run pretty decent. This summer I had the opportunity to run the 9895 in wheat with the 40' FD70. What a wheat eating machine! I was filling my hopper faster and fuller than the 9760 bullet rotor in the same fields. Not sure if the bullet was getting pushed real hard. But I was flat hammering the Massey to get all I could from her. Our wheat is cut in the 15% to 20% H20 range. Most of the straw is pretty dry. Oh wow it is noisy when ya unload! Head does not raise as high as the Deere. Massey is almost unsafe going down a steep hill when you do not know that it will free wheel up to 28-9 mph. Bin extensions have to be folded manually on the Massey to get down the road, takes time and not the safest setup in the world. I just guess if Massey is all I have ever known, then the 9895 would probably impress me. But the greeny meanys is what i have gotten to know for most of my life. And in my eyes the Massey is not the machine the green ones are. Still, please no one make any combines decisions based on our account, this farm is not near normal! The red Agco had to be replaced by the silver one finally because the red one ate 4 hydraulic pumps in a matter of two days. The last pump it ate was when the dealers tech was bringing her back to the farm and as he was going down a steep hill at 27 free wheeling mph the steering was lost again and he was headed for the ditch and woods. Hitting a pretty deep ditch and culvert along the way. He was bruised up pretty good but not hurt badly. That combine will never ever have a home on this farm ever again. Supposedly cracked the gear housing on the left front wheels. Dealer claims the box is still straight, but I just don't see how after taking such a hit. Agco reps were flew into local airport to really dig deep into her and find out the problem with the hyd pump. That 9895 just had a bug in her that needed to be found. Any piece of iron be it yellow or red or green will have bugs! Dealer was Johny on the spot when she would lay down. They have a fantastic service department. Have a good one, DeereTopher
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| I have to agree on that. The reverse bars were always the first thing that came off in our R series machines over the years. There are way better ways to get the grain separated than slowing crop flow through the rotor - all that does is cause the rotor to load up and use horsepower. We literally have a pile of old reverse bars sitting in our shop - should be on the scrap heap. ;) |
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Eau Claire, WI | I could have used a reversing rotor yesterday as the combine operator sucked up a tire and I had to use a com along to turn the impeller to get the tire out. |
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| Thanks for that great explanation! A picture is worth a thousand words, but sometimes only about 25% really tell the story. ;) I certainly don't think you're in the wrong with your decision. |
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Brazilton KS | Ours has never free wheeled. I've driven it down a couple pretty good hills, and will drive down a couple more before the soybean season is over. Now I have something else to worry about!
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Brazilton KS | I know one thing...the unloader on our 670 is SLOOOWW. Pick a hopper going one way, pick another hopper while you unload it going the other way. I think it's supposed to unload at the same rate as the 9600s, but it sure doesn't seem fast enough when you are putting it in the bin half the speed it goes out.
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Brazilton KS | We only have two rotor speeds. It is in low. Email is in profile. I'm sure I could make this thing work better then it does with some experienced advice.
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Clarksville, IL | i think strike one is the dealer has not been in combine sales since the 750's i think that says it all right there, rotor and conventional combine are totally different, they should have had another dealer bring a mechanic with it, we run a 9790 08 model picking corn i run from 3.5-6.8, 3.5 when picking wet corn 25-30% can run 4 and do on occasion, dry corn from 4.3-5.5 average, we can unload on the go at 6.8 something is wrong with the power for sure, yields from 140-190 bpa, beans with 30 ft head depends on how they are cutting 3.8 if down and green was cutting good standing beans yesterday running 5.0-5.5 unloading on the go no pull down on combine at all. something is wrong with the rotor as well if it plugs that often, in corn i have rotor at 300-380 beans 500-650 in green stems with green pods good dry beans about 500-550,
allen |
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southeast Washington | I was thinking of the 9895 it is the one that has the three speed rotor. |
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| I've certainly seen them speed up. I used to operate a class 8 for a short time and it would edge up to 27 mph while going downhill during transport. However, the brakes still worked and you could always pull back on the hydro lever to get it to engine brake. In my case the road was clear and straight so I just enjoyed the reduction in travel time!
I never had any problems while operating in fields.
Edited by Maxzillian 10/13/2010 10:04
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Are Massey Combines really this bad??? Newer Massey owners-need help!!
