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Little River, TX | This may interest some on these pages. It does not apply for calcareous soils!
Plant & Soil Sciences Newsletter Page 6
200 pounds is not the same as 2,000
By Jeff Edwards
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I have received several questions regarding liming materials and application. This is a good thing because it means that more people are soil sampling and addressing low soil pH. I am concerned, however, with the
types of questions I am getting regarding the application of pelletized lime. Most of these questions essentially ask if a couple hundred pounds of pelletized lime will perform the same as ½ or one ton of regular
Ag lime.
The answer is NO. If your soil test recommends one ton of 100% ECCE lime you will need one ton of ECCE lime, regardless of the source. I will attempt to explain why in the next few paragraphs.
What is soil acidity? Soil acidity is a measure of the amount of hydrogen (H+) ions in the soil solution. The lower the pH, the more H+ ions there are in the soil solution.
Lime (CaCO3) corrects soil acidity as it dissolves into Ca and CO3. Calcium (Ca) has a positive charge like H+ and displaces the H+ ions from the surface of soil particles, etc. The carbonate (CO3) reacts with
the H+ ions to form carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O).
The purpose of this chemistry lesson was to show that one molecule of calcium carbonate will neutralize
two H+ ions. There is no shortcut around this reaction. The lime recommendation you receive with your soil test is calculated based on the amount of H+ ions you need to neutralize in your soil and the number of
calcium carbonate (CaCO3) it will take to get this done.
Can I get by with less pelletized lime than Ag lime? No. It is true that some liming materials are more effective than others.
The effectiveness of a liming material is expressed as the effective calcium carbonate equivalent (ECCE). The ECCE is based on the purity of the material and the fineness of the material (finely ground lime will react
more quickly than coarse-ground lime).
Most agricultural lime sources in Oklahoma are about 65 – 85 % ECCE. So, if the soil test called for one ton of lime, you would need to apply 1.33 tons/A of a 75% ECCE material to get the job done. If a pelletized
lime source were 90% ECCE it would take 1.11 tons/A of this material to get the same job done, not a few hundred pounds.
Once again, if the soil test calls for a ton of ECCE lime, you need a ton of ECCE lime.
What about banding pelletized lime?
We have two studies (near Altus and Wakomis) comparing broadcast Ag lime to in-furrow pelletized lime and in-furrow 18-46-0 (DAP). This research is still in its preliminary stages, so it is too early to glean
recommendations from the results; however, what we do know from previous research is that in-furrow DAP is an effective band-aid treatment in low pH soils. It is also important to note that the mixing of pelletized
lime and DAP is not recommend because the calcium in the pelletized lime can bind to the phosphorus in the DAP and make it unavailable to plants.
Jeff Edwards can be reached at [email protected].
Edited by Hay Wilson in TX 9/9/2010 14:07
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indiana | thanks Hay Wilson a good article real close to what i have been taught about pell lime David |
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North Central Ohio, across the Corn belt ! | The Mythical , totally non factual information concerning Pelleted lime has come, for the most part from fertilizer dealer's marketing schemes.
Yes, It may be better than Nothing at times ? But what a High price the farmer pays for a unit of Calcium compared to bulk Lime in most areas of the corn belt.
So many times a farmer has called me and said the dealer wants to add a few hundred pounds every time they spread dry fertilizer.
Well Of Course He Does !!!
haul and spread a ton or 3 of the dry bulk lime you need, Beet Lime if available or water treatment lime.
If you need Calcium and have Poultry Litter available ? Nothing could be better than that for a soil feeding Calcium source. and if you figure the N. P. and K. from the Litter
The Calcium then, at that point, is Free to the Farmer.
Now if you have soils Like Wilson in Texas, and or many areas of Michigan. You may not need Calcium at all.
Pell Lime, Just like Gypsum and even chicken Litter has been over sold, At times with mythical information.
Just like the Two supposed Agronomist ??? Funny, trying to tell Wilson in Texas that Gypsum would be his Savior ??? what Crap
IF You need Calcium ? and you have NO quarry's ? or Calcium sources available, Then there may be some RARE Cases that one may see the Need to purchase Pell Lime for the good of HIS farm over and above the Benefit of the local Fertilizer Dealer. |
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| It might be that the powder in the pelletized lime reacts faster than ordinary finely ground lime once the adhesive in the pellet breaks down in the soil. If so there might be a quicker crop response if there was going to be a crop response. For sure quicker than lime ground as coarse as sand. In any case pelletized lime tends to cost a lot more than ordinary ag lime.
Gerald J. |
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North Central Ohio, across the Corn belt ! | Gerald J. - 9/9/2010 16:18
It might be that the powder in the pelletized lime reacts faster than ordinary finely ground lime once the adhesive in the pellet breaks down in the soil. If so there might be a quicker crop response if there was going to be a crop response. For sure quicker than lime ground as coarse as sand. In any case pelletized lime tends to cost a lot more than ordinary ag lime.
Gerald J.
consider the fines available in 1 to 3 ton, 2,000 to 6,000 Lbs of fine ground Ag Lime compared to 200 lbs of Pellets ???
No, Not an advantage |
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remsen, iowa nw iowa | in my area with himag soils i will choose pellime every time. it is very low in mag compared to common aglime available in this area. more expensive than aglime ? absolutely. but you get what you pay for and i dont need any more mag on my soils and i dont have time to wait for aglime to breakdown. i have disced up lime that was applied over a decade ago. how much did that benefit me? just mho. d7 |
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North Central Ohio, across the Corn belt ! | dap7 - 9/9/2010 20:11
in my area with himag soils i will choose pellime every time. it is very low in mag compared to common aglime available in this area. more expensive than aglime ? absolutely. but you get what you pay for and i dont need any more mag on my soils and i dont have time to wait for aglime to breakdown. i have disced up lime that was applied over a decade ago. how much did that benefit me? just mho. d7
yes, we are fortunate to have fine ground High Calcium Lime, chicken Litter, beet lime and water treatment lime available. ALL High Calcium products
There is also Dolomite available But Like You, We do not need the magnesium most of the time. |
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| Duh.....Well that's interesting. I've only been saying that all along here. I guess I just have the gift of discernment. lol.
http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=155695&posts=1...
http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=140270&posts=1...
http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=132632&posts=6...
Edited by Jon S 9/9/2010 21:22
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Effingham, IL | That's some good information. I don't know how many times I've heard someone claim that a couple of hundred pounds of pel-lime is equal to a ton of ag-lime. It's simply not true. |
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| This is something I've been struggling with for a while. I have a piece of rental ground that is marginal poorly drained sandy soil with a pH of 5.2-5.6 and a buffer pH of 6.8. The land owner is in their 80s and will only sign a one year agreement every year. If the owner wasn't a long time friend of the family I would have ditched it years ago. I don't want to spend the money on lime to have the old lady pass soon after application so the past few years I've been putting on 200lbs pell-lime in the spring with my fertilizer. Broadcast for beans, 2x2 with corn. The first year I did it there was a noticeable difference but I don't know if I am throwing my money away on the pell-lime or should I bite it and broadcast some beet lime. Currently the family is talking about putting the old lady that owns it in a rest home, as soon as that happens I know I won't be farming it. It's a tough call but so far I think that's the only use for pell-lime I've found. |
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The good news is that the pH is pretty easy to change. The bad news is that you have been wasting your money with pelleted lime.
If the owner is a friend of the family, then surely they would understand your predicament.
Put the right amount (and kind) of lime down and be done. If you lose control of the ground, then it will be the next guy’s problem. The pH problem is only going to get worse if that's the kind of premise you are working under.
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| Understand my predicament? Doubt it. The lady's daughter called me repeatedly this spring yelling at me about all those darn subsidies in not such nice words. The lady herself stopped the fertilizer truck this spring by standing in front of it and then yelled at the driver till he left, I got charged with the fee for them to show up twice and the family said it was my fault. Technically my dad "farms" this piece but that's a whole different story there. |
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Little River, TX | Joe we all have our personal problems.
Some problems are more personal while other are more unique.
Your personal problem is interesting but it does not respond to the laws of biology that effect us all.
This thread was started in response to an earlier thread regarding pelletized lime, and the claims made for it.
Crazy Sister and her interfering with the management of the farm is another subject entirely. It sure limits your options. I am afraid my short fuse would have me pulling out when she chased off the spreader truck. I would also expect to deduct the amount of the lost opportunity to spread the lime/fertilizer. If she/they are inclined to be tree huggers then let a tree hugger farm the place.
Unless this is mostly an act of charity for the Lady here self.
Life is too short for that level of stress. |
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200 lbs of pelletized lime = >½-1 T of Ag lime. revisited
