|
|
Southern Alberta | Looking at a used genset that puts out 480 volt 3 phase. I would like to run 220 volt single phase airation fans at bin sites with no power and am wondering if all 3 phase genset can be converted, or if you have to buy a specific generator.
Looking at a newage UC1274D1l-63D
Current owner does not know if it has reconnectable leads or not and I can't seem to find any info on the internet.
It is a 2007. |
|
| |
|
| You could run three single phase fans at one time with one or three transformers. Each would load one phase on the generator. The transformer could be a single three phase transformer probably 480 to 240 three phase, or three single transformers or auto transformers 480 to 240 or 277 (if the generator is four wire with a neutral) to 240. Likely a new transformer set will cost more than the used genset. That's without changing the genset windings. Its not guaranteed that the voltage of a genset can be changed by connections. If it had an electronic voltage regulator, it might be possible to cut the voltage in half, cutting the power capacity in half also.
Very few 3 phase generators have worked well with single phase loads though there is a connection for the most versatile of winding arrangements that does, it still costs considerable capacity.
The best load is three phase, fans grouped in three near equal groups.
The remaining problem is whether the genset will start all the fans at once or if they will have to be started a few at a time.
Gerald J.
|
|
| |
|
| This may or may not help as it is from and older series of
the generator. Your unit should be about 100Kw 12 wire, if I have
the right unit. I run my unit single phase and there is
nothing in the book about de-rating, but have never pushed
it to the limit.
 (stamford voltages.jpg)
 (stamford wire1.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 stamford voltages.jpg (30KB - 1274 downloads)
stamford wire1.jpg (89KB - 1240 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
cropsey, il 61731 | Isn't the 12 leads that are reconnectable from 3 phase to single phase? Also, you get only about 70% of the rated power in single phase.
hth,
Pat |
|
| |
|
Central, IA | As the others said, if it is a "12 lead re-connectible", then yes. Not all of them are though. And you will lose a bit of the current rating by going single phase vs 3 phase, just size accordingly. With newer sets it is not a big deal to recconect them. Usually just rearranging some lugs on junction blocks. Most of the time there is a tag on the generator end that has the ratings and such on it.
I also think that your 3rd digit is an I and not an 1. This website shows that model being offered in a 12 lead. You could give them a call.
http://www.hardydiesel.com/generator-ends/stamford-newage-generator... |
|
| |
|
Southern Alberta | Thanks everyone for the replies. From your responses, it encouraged me to drive the 2 hours to go look at the genset. The guy answering the phone was apparantly selling the genset for a bankruptcy of an oilwell service company. It is a newage UCI274D1L-63D generator powered by a perkins engine. It is a series star stator connection, puts out 105kW base rate and is inside an enclosed trailer. It was used in the winter for powering remote oil well sites (plugging in trucks and running lights) and only has 1000 hours on it. There are a whole bunch of electrical breaker panels in the front of the trailer and lots of outlets. some are normal 110 volt, some are 4 pole twist lock plugins rated at 30 amps and on the other breaker panel there are a whole bunch of rectangular outlets with little round pins about 12 to a connector, sort of like you would see to connect air seeder monitors to a tractor. Looks like some kind of long extension cords plugged into these.
So my impression is that some of the trailer is already wired for 120 and 240 single phase. Now for the part that I need help with. How do I tell if I am looking at a receptacle for single phase, or 3 phase? I am assuming that a normal digital volt meter may help me here. How is voltage measured on 3 phase? Do 3 phase circuit breakers look any different than single phase breakers?
Overall it looked like a very neat and tidy genset and I put in an offer on it.
Thanks again for the help. |
|
| |
|
central mich | If the generator has 12 main leads then it will reconnect to single phase. Connect it double delta rather than zig-zag. |
|
| |
|
Agent Orange: Friendly fire that keeps on burning. | My machine shed has 230V, 4-wire Delta 3-phase. Here's a pic of the breaker panel with the cover off. Can you pick out the 120V single phase, 230V single phase, and 230V 3-phase breakers? 
Notice there is no main breaker in this panel box. The box is too far from where the service enters the building so there is a main breaker upstream, that's close enough to the entrance to meet code. As far as the twist lock plugs on the genset panels, if you had taken a picture, I could tell you what voltage and phase each has hooked to it. They may all look alike, but they're made enough different that you can't plug a single phase 230V into a spot that is hooked to 230V 3-phase and you can't plug a 230V 3-phase into a receptacle hooked to 277V 3-phase. Lots of fun trying to have the right plug for the right receptacle. Bought through regular channels, they're expensive too. Hint: eBay and patience. |
|
| |
|
Grand Rapids, MI | Given the number of questions you have, I am assuming you have very little electrical knowledge. I would strongly suggest going the safe route and hiring a reputable local electritian to come out and do some testing with you. I would think you could have all your questions answered and plugs labelled, etc. for less than $200.
If you really want some things to look at, the easiest thing to check is that 3 phase 480V has 3 hot wires and generally (but not always) does not have a neutral. A single phase system will have 1 hot and one neutral for 110V or two hots and optionally one neutral for 240V. But like I said before if you didn't know this I wouuld hire a pro.
The other thing to consider if the generator can only generate 3 phase 480V is that if you are only running a couple fan motors, you may consider just changing the motors out to 3 phase. 3 phase motors are generally cheaper than single phase. If there is existing wiring it would be heavy enough if you had 3 conductors + a ground since 480V takes half the wire size than 240V. Not exactly per code, but you could wrap the neutral with black electrical tape like is done in residential to signify that it is a hot.
Good luck.
Edited by lorenk 8/23/2010 22:24
|
|
| |
|
Southern Alberta | In general I have a very good understanding of single phase wiring and have done lots. I have very limited knowledge of 3 phase and was wondering if there was some simple way to know if the receptacle is 3 phase or not, just by looking. Internet searches show lots of the receptacles and plugs between 1 phase and 3 phase look very similar.
The breaker panels on this genset trailer are such that the circuit breakers only have one arm showing through the panel to trip and reset. The rest of the breaker is behind the metal, so you can't see the 3 legs tied together like Ed Boyson has in his panel. Because I only briefly looked at the generator, I did not take the panels apart and look at them. When the genset arrives at my place next week, I will take them apart and have a look.
I have never seen an electrical connection that has a rectangular outlet and fastens with over center locks like the JD combines use going into the ecm's. This generator setup has long lengths of armoured cable with 120v plug in boxes wired every 20' or so. Probably 6 of them on a length of armoured cable and this rectangular connection with 12 or so pins connecting it to the breaker box. I am assuming it is 120v and will check it once I get it home.
I was mainly wondering if there was an easy way to spot a 3 versus 1 phase outlet from a distance without having to test it. Looks like subtle differences between the twist lock plugs.
As I purchase more airation fans I will probably buy 3 phase motors, but for now it would be nice to use the existing fans I have.
Again thanks for the help. |
|
| |
|
Southern Alberta | Geraldskca,
I am assuming that you have the same generator, do you run a grain dryer with it? If you do what combinations of motors and hp do you use? I have a pto dryer that I may possibly use the genset on someday. |
|
| |
|
| The unit was put in 30 years ago for a hog operation and run
on single phase, even though the yard now is 3 phase. The yard is
split with 2- 200Amp services as I only have a 200 amp transfer.
All grain drying is on the other 200amp service. The unit is a AC
series 4 which means it has to be run up before load is applied.
At that time they also had a series 3 which had an added
permanent magnet stator so unit could start under load.
That unit was mounted outboard of the back bearing.
but wasn't very big
While I had the barn I would convert it to 480 3phase
to run a 15HP pit pump a couple of times a year.
The generator is now also Perkins powered. It started out
as gas, but about 4 years ago I changed it over to 354
Perkins. With the gas we now have, it as a constant battle
to keep the carb clean.
I attached some information on twist locks. If they where
properly installed , just looking at the plug will tell
you phases voltages and amps. pictures are not that good
as a got information a few years ago and keep record on
computer. It is a lot easier to find that the paper.
 (twist-lock1.jpg)
 (twist-lockp2.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
twist-lock1.jpg (83KB - 1233 downloads)
twist-lockp2.jpg (44KB - 1178 downloads)
|
|
| |
can convert 480 volt 3ph genset to 220v 1ph?
