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NW Iowa | What are you guys breeding to get good quality Balck Baldy calves. Not looking for breeding genetics, looking for feedlot genetics in these calves.
Some guys say Angus Bull x Hereford Cows, some say Hereford Bull xAngus Cows?? What do you guys think? I'm using Angus Bull X F1 Black Baldy Cows right now experimenting. Some guys are saying to make the "super baldy" cross they use Brangus x Hereford while others say Black Angus/Shorthorn x Hereford.
I'm liking the Angus Bull power on Black Baldy cows, Since I'm already Pure Bred Angus grower I'm gonna keep using my own Angus Bulls. I really don't wanna look at Hereford cows everyday (no offense Jim) & I don't want a red calf every once in awhile. I want super Black Baldy calves everytime for the feedlot.
*With Angus Bull x Black Baldy Cows, can I call the calf a true F1 calf?? alot of grey areas there when discussing with other people.
*Will I be getting the most out of both angus/hereford genetics in my calves using F1 Black Baldy Cows crosses with pure breed Angus Bulls?
Ultimately my question is, will using my Black Baldy Cows x Angus Bulls be the best in every aspect for me?
EDIT> I'm not looking to breed calves to make cows to start, I'm looking to buy these Black Baldy cows by this fall already bred for what I want, to breed to my Angus Bulls next year. If you have something I'd be interested in buying let me know!
Edited by rocknkcattleinc 8/10/2010 11:49
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New Mexico | is probably best.
You get a lot of black bronkles then ( more black on the face results in better eyes...more pinkeye/wind burn resistence etc ).
Keep in mind You can take red baldies/ red bronkles, put a black bull on em and get mostly BWF calves too.
Take the best outlier BWF son out of You best cow, and breed him back to his BWF aunts or simply breed him back to a set of real good BWF hiefers ....the resulting bull calves are a "solidified genetic" BWF.
Breed em to anything and they'll throw BWF calves.
I'll be moving quite a few BWF cows bred to Angus bulls this fall.
We have 270 of those pairs coming in today.
On 150 of those, we'll split em ( calves weigh 550 now ) and the P 1 cows will sell by the pound ( should calf back starting end of Jan ).
The other 120 pairs are April pairs...will cost in the $1,075 per pair range.
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Gilroy 35 Miles Over the Hill From Santa Cruz | Sounds to me like you asked a Question and then Answered It Yourself (why ask a Question when you minds Made-up)
One of the best Money making cow we had was a Blk Baldy (Angus X Holstein) We X her bank to to our Angus Bull - when she calved Dad world Graph a Auction Calf on her - Veal two calves out and Graph two more on her - She would take them in the field (No Work) - she just loved her work. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | I think Baldy is defined as a Hereford-Angus cross. Other crosses may give a similar looking calf but I think Angus/Hereford is the official cross of a Baldy. As far as Hereford bull on Angus cows or vice versa I think it depends on what you have to work with. Since there are currently more Angus cows around than Herefords, most folks would make Baldies by putting a Hereford bull on Angus cows.
There are other traits of the Hereford that show up in a Baldy. Using an Angus bull on Baldy cows will give you 1/4 Hereford traits, 3/4 Angus traits, theoretically. I would use a Hereford/Angus cross rather than other ways of getting a BWF because of the Hereford traits such as ability to aggressively scavenge forage, calving ease (with a CE bull), maternals, disposition etc. and they are a beef breed.
To just look for any way of making a BWF you could cross Holstein/Angus and have a CAB milk cow, etc. Probably sell at a premium at McD's because they are black but they are still milk cows. Depends if you are just looking for color or if you are looking for traits. jmho. Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 8/10/2010 14:47
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Casey IL. ( I -70 ) then south on rt.49 | I am saying i agree withJim if your going save for a herd, cann't beat the herford mama. But to feed the angus on herford would be the way to go because of the marble ( oh boy I'll get this shoved up my_ )Herford bull for herd biulding, angus bull for feeding. |
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NW Iowa | I had pretty much made my mind up on using black baldies as cows, I was asking what others are doing to get their cross. I will have the best of both worlds already in the cow as an F1 baldy ( hereford x angus). Done, got the cow traits I wanted, now I'm lookin at the calf, asking others what experience they've had with the F1 black baldy x angus calves from a feedlot perspective, what other traits I'm getting from that cross (prob nothing more than the straight F1 traits). |
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| To clear up your breeding question, the super baldy calves you are talking about would be an F2 cross. First cross (F1) is the purebred (Shorthorn) x purebred (Herf) mating. Your second cross would be known as an F2, the (HerfxShort) x (Angus) mating.
If I remember what I learned of heterosis, it's generally maximized at the F2 cross with additional very small gains after that cross.
Edited by Dave-ECIA 8/10/2010 16:20
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the place your food comes from- IOWA | Tc806 is right I think when he says Hereford Bull for herd Building instead of the other way around.
Also, I don't want to see any Brahma influence ( 0 % ) say north of MO, but that's just me.
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NW Iowa | I'm talking about already having the hereford cross in the F1 black baldy cows, I'm also talking about no red in my herd, all BWF cows.
Cows would be 50/50 hereford/angus bred to my own pure bred angus bulls. And to clear up I don't want the Brahma influence at all! I was just asking peoples opinion of what a "super baldy" would be. |
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NW Iowa | 50/50 hereford/angus cross bred cows (F1) to my pure angus bulls be an F2 or just another F1 cross?
Some people simply classify a F1 to just be a cross from 2 different breeds.
And no I prob wouldn't have my heterosis maximized by just that cross would I? |
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WY, OK | In terms of the best hybrid vigor you would take those black baldies (angus/herf cross) and breed them to Charolais or some other "exotic" in terms compared to what you already have. You should get 700lb+ weaning eights out of that cross with the proper genetics.
As for which breed for which sex we use the Angus/Red Angus on the cow side and Hereford on the bull side. Lot less sunburn issues with the Angus cows and you will get a slightly smaller nicely compact cow and can breed the size in with the Herf. bull. Then make up for anything lost with the Charolais on the White Face cows. |
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west central Iowa | My dad always said that hereford cows and angus bulls made the best calves and I agree. You get more brockle face calves with this cross and more all white faces with the hereford bull/angus cow. As someone else said more color in the face less eye trouble. As far as what to breed the f1s to if you want raise replacement heifers I would breed them to an f1 bull as someone else said, if its a terminal cross almost anything will work good on a black baldy. |
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Top of Texas | In my experience a black baldy cow bred to an angus bull yields a solid black calf much of the time. Is that your experience and does that matter to you? |
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New Mexico | Brangus cow out of a Hereford bull.
Brangus cow is 3/8 Brahman, 5/8 Angus.
Thus the Super Baldy calf is actually 3/16ths Brahman.
Also one can use an Angus Plus cow and a Herford Bull to make Super Baldies.
Angus Plus cow is out of a Brangus dam and an Angus sire...thus has one more shot of Angus in her and is thus 3/16ths Brahman, 13/16ths Angus....her resultant calf out of a Herfy bull is then 3/32nds Brahman, the rest of course Hereford which is 1/2, and 13/32nds Angus.
Watch areas like So Dak.
Probably going to see a noticeable move back towards the old standard ( 70's and 80's ) which is Black or BWF cows running with Char bulls.
On a Northern super baldy...since the true definition is a 3 breed cross...put a 1/4 shot of Tarentaise or 1/4 shot of Shorthorn in the BWF deal and Your there. Come back on those with Your Angus bulls.
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Fairbury, NE (Southeast) | It would take some kind of incentive for me to run a herd of Herefords. Pinkeye, udders issues, just slower in the head. |
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NW Iowa | what I've been testing at home has been 100%, always a black calf with a white face since 2007. Black is dominate & so is the white face, mine are a controled test where I know where they came from, maybe what you've seen have some diff cross in them, I have seen them come in the sale barn ring looking like you describe. |
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Nance County, Ne | What we do here is buy angus cows of dispersions only. Usually in the 3-4 yr olds. We then breed them to fleckview simmental bulls. Jerry Brink in north east Iowa is where he's at. Get black, black baldy and glazed face calfs. They really do finish out good for us and the packer now knows the type of calves we have and bids for them well. |
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Top of Texas | Thats very likely-i saved back a baldy heifer this year out of a purebred hereford cow and a purebred angus bull-bred her to purebred angus bull. Will be very interested to see if she throws a baldy or a solid calf in the spring. |
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Columbia City, Indiana | Joelt - 8/10/2010 22:44
Thats very likely-i saved back a baldy heifer this year out of a purebred hereford cow and a purebred angus bull-bred her to purebred angus bull. Will be very interested to see if she throws a baldy or a solid calf in the spring.
For the first time with this Spring's calf crop I had black baldies bred to an Angus bull throw black baldies. Kind of weird. Even had a couple of the brockle faced ones throw classic black baldies, meaning the calf, who was only 1/4 Hereford, had a lot more white than the mama, who was 1/2 Hereford. But my best cow, who is a black baldy, threw her normal all black calf. I even had a Shorthorn cow bred to an Angus bull throw a brockle faced black baldy, kind of weird, maybe she has some Hereford in her or something. |
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| No, your F1 cows (herf x ang) bred back to Angus would not be a true F2. To get to an F2, you would need to add another breed.
I still haven't looked it up, but I'm pretty sure you've pretty well maxed out the heterosis at that F2 cross.
Edited by Dave-ECIA 8/11/2010 15:53
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| Sure, but then you have guys like me and Jim who like Herefords because they are slower in the head. Those wild black cattle wouldn't even give a guy a chance to drink beer! ;-)
Seriously, the pinkeye and udder problems Herefords have long been criticized for aren't near what they used to be. Pinkeye outbreaks today seem just as common in black cattle if not more so as in Herefords. It has been about 7 years since I had to deal with a prolapse. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | I think the prolapse and pinkeye thing was mostly polled Herefords 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. My neighbor and I both have polled Herefords, he has had them for many years, along with other Herefords in our area. No prolapses in recent memory and pinkeye no more a problem than with any other breed. Pinkeye seems to be more a function of fly control and stubble height than breed these days. All breeds have had their problems at one time or another. Breeders logically take care of them or they will be out of business. Note current Angus genetic problems such as FCS/carriers for example. No one talks about them and the others very much but they will be figured out and bred out over time. jmho. Jim at Dawn |
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Northeast ks | I have been breeding hereford cows with angus bulls and F1 baldies with angus bulls for a while. Really, I would rather have a good purebred horned Hereford heifer to breed to the Angus bull. The F1 baldies that I am keeping are somewhat smaller-framed, which I kind of like though. People are also saying pinkeye is worse with Herefords- which this year proves to be false for me.
I am pretty happy of the results I have had, and it sounds like you are too, so why change it?
Another story: My mom had this cow my brother and I called "The Mongrel". It was out of a purebred Gurensy bull and its mother was just a mix of stuff. Well, this cow has been way more productive than any Hereford, Angus, or Baldie of ours.
We bred this cow to an Angus bull and got a decent-looking black heifer. We then bred the black heifer to a Hereford bull and its calf looked no different from a Hereford for some reason. This Hereford-looking cow is probably our best- has small calves and never has needed help calving, and then it's calf ends up being the biggest at weaning. We have been breeding this cow to angus bulls and have got perfect black baldies- I think there are 4 BWF heifers so far we have kept.
I think this cow I'm talking about might be the perfect baldie because most of its genetics are from the Hereford and Angus- low birth weight, motherly instict, very efficient, and ablitiy to gain lbs. But.... that little bit of Guernsy in it gives it even more milk, which I think is the reason it weans big calves.
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Central ND | Black baldy is more of a color selection than a breed...(IMHO)... holsteins and herferds mix also throw something that looks simmilar.Either way, its hard to stay away from a red one once in a while when mixing colors/genetics/ |
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New Mexico | use a Black Hereford bull in the mix. `
Pretty good annual sale of those in NE Kansas every fall.
American Black Hereford Association. perhaps google it up. |
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Lets Talk Black Baldy Cow Breeding, Give Me Your Opinions
