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Buffalo, MN | Who has a ration balancer for Holstein steers? I want to run one myself because the feed salesmen/nutritionists can't tell me why their ration is the best. I also want to plug in costs to get the cheapest ration. |
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central - east central Minnesota - | I would start by checking with Stearns Co DHIA and see if they do it or who they could recommend. http://www.stearnsdhialab.com/ Good luck |
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North Cental Mo. | Ration balancer?, I guess I don't know what that is. I've never fed a stein, so maybe there is something I'm lost on. What are you wanting to feed them? More info needed.
Roy |
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| I'm lost too, Roy. I'm not a cattle feeder and I don't play one on TV LOL! I'm wondering if you just don't feed holsteins the same way as beef breeds, because there is no way they will marble or grade as well? A less hot ration of more forage and less corn, for a longer period of time??? Interesting topic. |
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Croswell, Michigan | Actually just the opposite John. Holsteins need to be fed hard to grade. Packerland prefers calf-feds (corn fed from 250-1350) over grass backgrounded cattle.
To answer Bill's question I would think most universities could help with that one. I thought UofMn had a pretty good beef site with holstein info on it. |
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| Here is the first ingredient and trrying to do it without it is fool hardy!!!
Alfalfa
Dont ask me what the magic ingredient is other than I KNOW it is high in calcium and any 'fed' ration is too low on calcium. You have to feed hard 'steins at 'least' 300 days to get them to grde well. Without the afore said magic ingredient you will have arthritic, falling over, do poorly steers. You can only run calcium short so long. Blacks and other colored cattle can probably stand the shorter period of feeding they are used to, without too many adverse effects,,,but the steins when stretched out feeding periods exist JUST cant!!! Try feeding ground limestone or ANY other form of calcium and SEE what happens,,,they pull back consumption and dont eat, period. Even the colored cattle can get gain benefits from alfalfa hay.
If you THINK your feed ration is soooo balanced and this cant be,,,take the ultimate test. Take a BIG pen of cattle,gate cut it in half. Feed your normal ration to one,feed the others some alfalfa hay along with ration, weigh at the end and SEE for yourself!!! And alfalfa hay cant get TOO good for any steers or heifers, especailly the steins!!(but it doesnt have to be the best either)
There is probably other important ingredients in that 'falfa hay other than calcium,,,I just dont know what they are!!! (It might be lutein,I dunno) |
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Buffalo, MN | I'm looking for a spreadsheet or an application that I can input various feddstuffs and cost and tellit to give me a ration for a 300lbs holstein steer. Land O Lakes suggests to feed almost all grain with very little forage to keep the rumen small for less maintenance. I have a corn harvestor, forage harvestor, stave silo, and a TMR. I would like to balance my own rations using High moisture corn, DDGS, haylage, corn silage, and a concentrate. Since this is borrowed money I want to finish them as fast as possible. Thanks, Bill |
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North Cental Mo. | I'm still a pinch lost. Do you want to put all that in one ration? Or do you want to run numbers between different rations? KSU, has the best feed ration calculator that I know of. I'm sure Iowa state has one also, and probably Nebraska. But generally, feed rations are easy to figure on your own with a calculator, all you need is percent dry matter, and protein content, and add in fiber for the size of calvs.
Roy |
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Rural Valley pa | Try feeding ground limestone or ANY other form of calcium and SEE what happens,,,they pull back consumption and don't eat, period. Even the colored cattle can get gain benefits from alfalfa hay.
don can you explain they cut back on consumption and don't eat. what I am gathering from this is you should feed. Feed grade limestone. im interested in this I did feed lime at one time but have stopped. in a ton of dry feed being 25% shelled corn and 400 lb of roasted soybeans and the rest ear corn how much feed lime should be applied. chop is being fed free choice sort of a self feeder. hay if it matters is all they want to and its timothy . orchard grass. and birds foot trefoil. thanks Dave |
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Buffalo, MN | Could you please post the links to these ration balancers? Thanks |
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| Holsteins will grade well, infact they are the most predictable animal to feed. That is because of the years of A.I. breeding done in the dairy industry. Brawley Feeders in Imperial, Ca. that is all they feed. They get them on a very hot ration of grain, I thought I remember reading they cut out almost all forage in the ration. Just from memory, I thought they had gains that doubled colored cattle. They only problem is they take longer to grade choice. |
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WCNY | Try this link I know it says sheep and goats but this is a link to cattle systems ration program from Cornell U it should be what you are looking for hopefully it may have gotten a little more user friendly since I had down loaded CCS4. I think might be even latter versions by now. If you have problems get back on and I can give you a professors name to call. http://www.sheepgoatmarketing.org/beef/install_ccs.html
Hope this is what you want it may be more detailed than you want but I felt it was pretty good years ago.
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Center of IL | If cattle are fed a Hot (high corn) ration they can founder, bloat, go off feed , etc. Not quite sure if your wanting a feed formula or a feed additive or both. Been awhile but I think Moormans feed was big into this type of feeding. Feeding straight shell corn with additives. Pretty sure it involves adding Bicarb and rumensen or bovitec. Imagine packerland could send or have info if you called. I've got an old Dairy/Beef Symposium book around here somewhere that I'm pretty sure has some info in it. If you don't find any info. let me know and I will go on a hunt for it. Good Luck.
Edited by Beef Cen IL 3/3/2007 08:43
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Rural Valley pa | sorry I kind of jumbled things together all im asking is how much feed lime you would add to a ton of feed. I don't have problems with the self feeder. or cattle bloating been using bicarb,tm salt mag ox,selenium..thanks Dave |
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| I guess I dont QUITE understand your question.
Let me make a stab at restating the obvious,then you ask from there.
There is NO limestone that is palateable enough for cattle to 'like'. Straifght limestone is like getting them to eat dirt,it they want to they will,,,mostly they wont. I forget the calcium stuff meant for dairy cows,,,thats the closest to it. It is very powdery and fine. Not like limestone at all,,,must be a different carrier.
BUT the most likeable thing the cattle WILL reddily eat and go for first is alfalfa hay,specially fed cattle,they like the 'scratch' it offers and it obviously tastes good to them too they will eat the stems first and NOT eat the leaves which is the best part unless they have to.
You said,I think that you are feeding all the timothy hay they want. You do what you want but here is how that will shake down ,did for ME here, about 1/3 of the catle will eat mostly corn and not eat 'much' hay,,,next 1/3 will travel back and forth and eat too much hay and not enough corn(tranlated,they wont gain as well),,,then the 1/3 that eats primarily hay and hardly any if at all grain,,,those will never grade good, because they remain as hay fed.
Any hay over 4-5# per head per day is way too much and leads to them NOT eatting enough corn, period,hay wont gain,just maintains. Now the fact remains they ALL have to have their 4-5# and not just the boss hogs that push and shove and eat the most,,,give them all an equal shot at it. ground coarse and fed daily in a bunk,,,threw over the fence with a pitchfork(IF you have waste you forgot to weigh how much you are feeding 4-5 # isnt VERY much,,they will lick her ALL up if thats all you feed. Feed the timothy to your cows or something else,,,go get some good alfalfa and feed your steers,,,and dont listen to the ding dongs that try to tell you"They will get the ****s from eatting alfalfa,,not after they are used to it.
I know you guys back east think I am plum crazy for feeding holsteins alfalfa hay,,cant work,,,wont make a difference,,,hogwash,,,I have heard it all before. Take the challenge,split the pen,feed them hard and long, see what happens.
My personal opinion of stein perfect ration is 4-5# of alfalfa hay,a pound of 38% pellets give or take some%(which includes Bovatec and NOT rumensin) and all the whole shell corn they will eat. IF you start them young enough they dont eat NEARLY as much as started as yearlings. Most I ever pounded in a calf fed stein is about 18# of corn a day,,,a bit more when they get REAL close to market weight. You can throw a block of salt in the pen but most pellets include enough to do whats needed,but a block they can play with and last a goodly time. Thats as balanced as you need. Around here IF you can get wet distillers it is priced as high as dry shelled corn so not much advantage. Protein is higher but higher phos knocks your cal-phos ratio worse than it already was,so not much benefit. I had colored yearling cattle eatting 38# of corn,pellet a day once,,,guy said that was impossible, but they did. IF you figure up, long term steins, dont eat much more corn than colored cattle IF they are started early enough.(Steins early,colored started late)
In short,,,any limestone,leave it OUT,,,feed some alfalfa and get the GOOD out of it!!! Cattle wont eat dirt and grow,they will eat alfalfa and do great!!!!
If you think they need a bit more gut filler you could 'try' to put a bale of bean straw out there,,,they dont tend to eat too much of THAT,,,just enough to scratch their tummies. NOT to replace the hay tho,,,NOT the same at all.
Feeding steins IS a whole different can of worms as feeding regular colored cattle and those that THINK they can feed them the same,,,good luck,more knowledge to follow after experience on YOUR part!!! First of all you HAVE to have a lock system to enter the pen, yourself,,,or you will be estremely sorry. And while we are on gate issues,,,any idiot proof latch for colored is 1/3 enough for steins. Triple lock it,,,chain and padlock and they will still get out,,,they will play all day on the latch till they figure it out. A single chain on a gate,,,an exciting all night chase in the waiting!!!! And half or 'close' to finished fat cattle are the stupidiest chasing animals you will ever find!!!!Brain dead. Besides steins chase like chasin chickens. One step forward, two back.
I LIKED feeding steins,,,but no GOOD markets here within decent trucking. when IBP was around they LOVED to steal them from you. I understand they truck them in from way back east. The last ones they got from me they discounted real hard and sold them retail to Packerland,,,they got NO more of them and Packerland was too far of truck or I still would feed them. Other big problem with them is their thin hide for the BIG winter blows we have here, dont have the right facilities OR the right location. |
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| One more thing,while I am at it then I have said all there is to be said. IF you are feeding in self feeders,,,quit that too. Unless yours are shaped WAY different than the "Apache" feeder I have used. at a certain point,,,and who knows when or what triggers it,,,but they only eat so many minutes a day. IF they cant get full in those minutes they dont eat. As there head gets bigger and its more akward to bend there head(hornless helps,,,but SPECIALLY if you have ANY horns. ) they cant bend there head in there and they only eat enough to satisfy there tummy,,,and NOT enough to get fat and really gain. In a feed bunk they can scoop their mouths full like an old boss sow and get a fill in short order!!! IF you have the feeder screwed down so they dont 'waste' a bunch they cant eat fast enough,,,if they are open enough to get a good mouthful they will waste too much,,,just NO happy medium. Weather and saliva will constantly have them plugged up,no matter how hard you try,,,been there done that too,,,all wrong. For small calves,,,it will work,,,so you could start them that way and when they start wasting,,,probably 5-600# switch them over to bunks,,,you can use enough bunks so its like a self feeder,but a self feeder to a BIG steer is also an accident waiting to happen,,,a profit robber with a mask on!!! Like I say,,,unless your feed pans are exceptionally wide so they dont even have to turn their head to eat!!!And,,, you check and adjust settings at least TWICE a day!!! Actually more work than bunks by a bunch!!! |
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| dave,
if you feed alfalfa hay you can throw the bi-carb away too,,,been there done that too! |
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Rural Valley pa | don now I get what you are saying just did not understand the way it was posted. any way I like the classic gate unlocking I have about 3/4 black and if you want a problem starter that's were to look. since we started getting some of the black. I have had to revamp the gates and fence. my feeder was made at home and will have to post some pictures of this feeder. really I think it is working very well just have to push it down every 3 to 4 days. one thing we were worried about was how clean it would stay and to are surprise it stays very clean. thanks Dave |
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Buffalo, MN | You seem to have alot of experience with holsteins. If I have high moisture corn, DDGS, haylage, corn silage, soybeans available to me, along with a roller mill and a TMR, what should me ration be? I feed twice a day at a bunk. Thanks |
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| Hi moisture corn is good,,,,silage,,,I was told by experts once, is the most expensive feed you can have. Or feed. Lots of guys feed that tho,but think about it,definitely so. Great for backgrounding and growing tho. As a feed additive, cant think of WHY,,but let your own milage determine same. Alfalfa haylage is GOOD. and in my opinion is a great high protein hay source. It can probably replace some of the purchased protein. My experience with soy hulls (my only experience) is even soy hulls it leads to 'BLOAT". ONLY way to avoid bloat with soy hulls,feed them soaking wet in water,no experience with soy meal or roasted soys. NO experience with wet or dry distillers either.
To make a long story short,with your ingredients,,,better hire a big fancy place to calculate that on a puter program,,,I have seen those programs but never owned one.
But if it was me I would save the silage for cows or colored cattle backgrounding/growing,,,sell the soys in the high market today. and combine hi moisture corn and dry shell corn, with the haylage(alfalfa only), feed a bovatec pellet and call it a day,,,maybe minor tweaking as conditions allow. Not too much haylage tho,keep in mind moisture but about same as 4-5# of dry hay,kinda sorta. I never had much high moisture corn,,,can you feed this straight or does it HAVE to be limited?? How high moisture?? Around 20-22% (blended)sounds ideal to ME,,,again your milage may vary!!! |
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Ration balancer for Holstein steers
