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The theory of a dirt clod...
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seedcleaner
Posted 4/22/2010 18:50 (#1170582)
Subject: The theory of a dirt clod...


Mid-Missouri

Seldom are planting conditions ever "perfect", and even if they seem perfect the day you plant, the unforeseen weather can contradict what you thought was a great seedbed.

We v-ripped in the fall and have done anhydrous and field cultivated a few days later. With all the rain we had a month or two ago, and now dry conditions, there is a substantial amount of dirt clods. These clods aren't extremely hard, but they are getting that way. We all know not many tillage tools reduce or eliminate clods, but instead, the tractor tires end up doing more than what is being pulled behind.

Most dirt clods seem to come from the topsoil. In other words, part of the clod was the top of the soil profile before it got tilled up. This got me thinking about a tool with many coulters, like a salford rts. Coulters don't produce, or bring clods up if I had to guess. On the other hand, they don't level very well either.

What tools do you use to make your "ideal" seedbed under less than ideal conditions? For some I know it will simply be no-till, others a one-pass tool.

I would like to see what a propane tank on its side would do for breaking up clods behind a cultivator. Maybe weld some very heavy expanded metal around it to give it texture to help crumble the clods and fill it half full of water.

I should add that we use the Phillips rotary harrow with the harrows reversed it it breaks the clods up pretty good. Often, we don't have enough drivers to run this in front of the planter. The 980 f.c. we use now with 7" JD shovels (poor quality) has the factory three bar coil tine that does nothing for breaking clods, just puts them in nice tight rows. A double row mounted basket would be nice on this cultivator, like the one pictured this morning made by unverferth.



Edited by seedcleaner 4/22/2010 20:26
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bootsbowen
Posted 4/22/2010 19:02 (#1170585 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Gibson City Il
we use a RTS in worked ground we are also using the RTS to put on Nh3 after these two passes the groung is level and no clods
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briannnebo
Posted 4/22/2010 19:05 (#1170587 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: RE: The theory of a dirt clod...


Nebo, Kentucky
Great post
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MOjeeper
Posted 4/22/2010 19:06 (#1170588 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...



NEMO

For us a 16 bar Mcfarlane harrow works wonders.

 

 http://www.flexharrow.com/flexible-sections.htm

 

Guess I should say we use this after a JD 2210 S-tine field cuiltvator.



Edited by MOjeeper 4/22/2010 19:08
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justamerefarmer
Posted 4/22/2010 19:25 (#1170600 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: RE: The theory of a dirt clod...


So if your tractor tires are doing most of the clod busting the question comes to mind what is behind your cultivator?

If you would attach a double rolling basket to your cultivator you now have the clod buster you desire. As far as the RTS not leveling there are adjustments that can be made to the coil tine harrows so that it is a leveling tool. The cultivator will level better but there is no leveling capabilities in the RTS.

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Gerard
Posted 4/22/2010 19:29 (#1170602 - in reply to #1170600)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...



Woodham, Ontario
There is a reason a rolling basket behind a field cultivator is sometimes called a crumbler!

Coil tine harrows + rolling basket on a JD 2210 works really well for me.
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Ed Winkle
Posted 4/22/2010 19:31 (#1170605 - in reply to #1170588)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Martinsville, Ohio
Harrowed some an ran the notill planter, most clods fell apart.

Ed
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Pofarmer
Posted 4/22/2010 19:31 (#1170606 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...



Good ole 490 disc with a crumbler pulled behind run SHALLOW, followed up by a Danish Tine cultivator with rolling baskets is what's worked the best for us thus far. The field cultivator was creating more clods than it was solving.

Edited by Pofarmer 4/22/2010 19:32
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Illinois John
Posted 4/22/2010 19:40 (#1170613 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: RE: The theory of a dirt clod...


Crawford County, Robinson, Illinois

I found no tool perfect.  In the 1950's, a tool called a Soil Surgeon was used by my Dad to break up clods during that dry year.  It was basically a metal pan, with long thin blades bolted to it.  We filled the pan with dirt for weight, and it did help break up clods--not perfect--but enough to make a seedbed.

In the 1970's, a crowsfoot front and a regular back roller on a Cutlimulcher was used.  It had field cultivator teeth in the middle that not only worked the soil, but helped give downpressure to make the packer break up clods.  Don't ever get next to moist soil, took a day to dig out the crowsfoot with packed mud, and you know how I remember that!

Then I got a Landoll Till-all, with three bar harrow that worked about the best in my experience.  Again, it wouldn't always bust up all clods, but was about as close to perfect as I have found.  The tool worked almost too good in regular soil, it made seedbeds so fine that they were almost too perfect.  Thing I liked best about that tool was incorporating herbicide, back in the "old days" of Treflan and the like.

We had 7 acres of heavy black soil that only worked well one hour out of one day in the year.  When you caught it right, it mellowed into a fine seedbed.  All the rest of the time, there were always clods.  FIL liked to say that one hour of one day a year usually occurred when he was eating lunch.

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JohnW
Posted 4/22/2010 20:17 (#1170641 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: RE: The theory of a dirt clod...


NW Washington
Well you could try the European method of moldboard, then pack, pulverize and seed in one slow operation. Actually, all the digging up and then packing and beating the soil down again seems more than a little counterproductive.




(Lemken drill harrow combo.jpg)



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Attachments Lemken drill harrow combo.jpg (42KB - 312 downloads)
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White Gold
Posted 4/22/2010 20:19 (#1170646 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: RE: The theory of a dirt clod...


South Plains of Texas
Ain't it funny! Ya'll build equipment to bust clods and we build equipment here in West Texas to make 'em.
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usafarmer
Posted 4/22/2010 20:25 (#1170654 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: No-till....its all you ever need......


Newfane NY
But you may need a vertical tillage tool to loosen up the soil a little.........

Calm down guys, no harm intended.

John
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Thud
Posted 4/22/2010 20:57 (#1170679 - in reply to #1170606)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Near-north Ontario, French River
Around here most pull a S- tine cultivator ( also known as field cultivator, Triple K) with double rolling harrows on the cultivator , and a set of packers ( sprocket/crowfoot/coil depending on soil types) behind. Make the first pass as shallow as you can, if you go too deep you pop up the big clod. Second pass if needed usually busts up any clods that are left.
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crabby
Posted 4/22/2010 20:58 (#1170683 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: RE: The theory of a dirt clod...


SW Missouri
Good post. Obviously the best way to eliminate clods is to not make them in the first place. A lot of guys suffer from lack of patience and start to quick when it's to wet. They see the neighbors doing something and don't want to be thought of as lazy or something.

Everyones situation is different. I TRY to notill everything I can, but thats not always possible. This year I ran a Pheonix rotary harrow over it first on the ground that needed dried out a little. Then the next day I ran a Salford over it, let it dry some and planted. On the fields that were dryer I just ran the Salford and planted.

One key point about notill or vertical tillage that I don't see talked about much is that you need to get your fields leveled up before you start. Then do everything you can to not screw it up. I know I will probable get flamed for that statement("I can't afford to leave a crop in the field till it dries up!" I know, I've said it myself) But the longer you notill the firmer the ground gets and you don't make ruts in wet years. I had fields that I would have swore I would have to work when I cut the beans in December. This spring they weren't that bad. One pass with the Salford and they looked good. I don't know what kind of compaction is there but there isn't much I can do about that in the spring. If I had a strip till tool I would have ran that about 8-10" deep to take out any compaction but I don't have one yet.
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Ed Winkle
Posted 4/22/2010 21:09 (#1170695 - in reply to #1170654)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Martinsville, Ohio
That's why he is fighting clods John:)
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2+2, MN
Posted 4/22/2010 21:52 (#1170760 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


New Ulm, MN
plull a crumbler behind the digger. as far as a propane tank flopped on its side, ive seen a NH3 tank under a swing tounge haybine frame some where once..............................................
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NH farmer
Posted 4/22/2010 23:23 (#1170932 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


North Missouri
Row cleaners make great clod pushers. They just seem to roll them out of the way. I really don't mind a few clods. The ground doesn't seem to crust over as bad if you get a hard rain.
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acfarmer
Posted 4/23/2010 03:22 (#1171070 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
Great plains 7333 with 5 bar spike tooth harrow followed by kongskilde danish tine with double roller basket almost to much, brought alot of the fields this year down to powder.
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plowboy
Posted 4/23/2010 10:20 (#1171302 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...



Brazilton KS
We bought this this spring. It won't do what a full blown cultipacker will, but we are well pleased with how it has worked.



(0421101501a.jpg)



(0421101501b.jpg)



(0421101502a.jpg)



(0421101503.jpg)



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Attachments 0421101501a.jpg (46KB - 298 downloads)
Attachments 0421101501b.jpg (68KB - 310 downloads)
Attachments 0421101502a.jpg (69KB - 278 downloads)
Attachments 0421101503.jpg (88KB - 263 downloads)
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mtbkdtbg
Posted 4/23/2010 10:32 (#1171317 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


EC Ks.
No-till like you said - positives don't have to spend time figuring out how to get rid of clods - get planting done and go do one's favorite pastime - whatever flips your lid. thats what I'm doing today - finished corn planting, got a rain, now relaxing no wasting time on clods.
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jakescia
Posted 4/23/2010 10:34 (#1171320 - in reply to #1171302)
Subject: PB--- are you then harrowing behind that to eliminate ridges? or planting into them?



Oskaloosa, Iowa 52577
.
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plowboy
Posted 4/23/2010 10:38 (#1171323 - in reply to #1171320)
Subject: RE: PB--- are you then harrowing behind that to eliminate ridges? or planting into them?



Brazilton KS
Plant behind that.  The "ridges" aren't over 2" tall. 
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MOjeeper
Posted 4/23/2010 10:47 (#1171329 - in reply to #1171317)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...



NEMO

mtbkdtbg - 4/23/2010 09:32 No-till like you said - positives don't have to spend time figuring out how to get rid of clods - get planting done and go do one's favorite pastime - whatever flips your lid. thats what I'm doing today - finished corn planting, got a rain, now relaxing no wasting time on clods.

 Negatives (around here): you go broke.Cry

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dri
Posted 4/23/2010 10:55 (#1171336 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: RE: Row cleaners here.


Central Mo
I use row cleaners to roll the clods out of the way.  I don't care what it looks like between the rows only where the seed is.  And no there aren't trenches for rows, the row cleaner "fingers" only roll the clod to the side and leave the fine dirt.
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acfarmer
Posted 4/23/2010 14:38 (#1171476 - in reply to #1171329)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
I wouldnt exactly make that statement mojeeper. Notill beans seem to work about as well as working the ground and there are several farmers that notill corn and have been doing it along time. I would think the biggest thing with notill corn is having the right equipment on your planter. Having notill coulters Doesnt always mean you can notill.
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ahay68979
Posted 4/23/2010 14:43 (#1171479 - in reply to #1171329)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Saronville NE
Another negative on notill Im finding out more and more is when the neighbors are all going on ridgetill and conventional on a dreary damp cloudy or misty drizzly day Im sitting because we cant get thru the trash of COC. Last 3 days been that way here and now rain last nite, 180 acres in 3 days with a 16 r planter equals very disappointed and very anxious customers, but when the trash is bad and it wont work when damp what you going to do. Normaly do more then that in a easy day, but not last 3 days. Getting fed up with NOtill fast this year.
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acfarmer
Posted 4/24/2010 14:11 (#1172637 - in reply to #1171476)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
Because it doesnt work on all my ground. Proven fact since my dad notilled for several years on some of it. But it does work on some of it. I dont have the $ to buy the things I need to notill part of my ground so I work it all. I do notill some of my beans and Have some friends that notill everything and have been doing it for along time with alot of success. I would never rule something out just because it did not work for one guy. Lots a variables to consider.
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acfarmer
Posted 4/24/2010 17:29 (#1172852 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
No Im not contradicting myself. ON our heavy ground we seen a yield drop after several years of it for some reason. Light ground seemed to make no difference. The people I know that notill farm light ground or hills and have no heavy ground so it works for them. I believe it would work in this area but to be honest to many farmers like to see black dirt when they farm and the other great thing about small town farming is others think you are lazy for not working the ground and some cant stand that. I think the tools for notilling have came along way from when we did it with the problems of not getting accurate depth in the clay hills to managing the trash in the rows and having minimum till tools when the ground is alittle too wet. (If notilling worked around here You would see alot more of it is like saying if tracked tractors were the best thing out there you would see alot more of them.) People are set in there ways and not always willing to change the way they farm.

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acfarmer
Posted 4/24/2010 18:52 (#1172942 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
You are not reading what I wrote very closely Mudbug. I said it worked on some of our ground but not all of it. also it has been 25 years since we did it and that alot equipment has been built that wasnt available back then. Biggest problem we had was ground not getting dry to go. I know one year dad tempted to unhook the drill and drag the caddy across the ground to fluff it up and help dry it out. Now look at what they build today that does the same thing. There is also a large difference in ground around here Gumbo, chalk, prairie, to blow sand. On some of this it would work on the rest not so shure. I guess what point I was trying to make is mojeeper said all would go broke notilling and that is not always the case. The track tractor thing was for mojeeper that seems to think there is no other tractor but one with rubber tracks. They have there good points and bad too. He hates to admit to the bad.
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acfarmer
Posted 4/24/2010 20:58 (#1173113 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
Kinda of putting words in my mouth there mojeeper. I never said the way I do things is the only way. Seems you are the one always down on the way others do things. Remember the wagon post. btw Not arguing trying to point out not all go broke notilling. Calm down next week it will dry up and we can all work tons of acres with our recreational tillage tools as the true notillers call it.
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acfarmer
Posted 4/24/2010 21:27 (#1173161 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
Yes everyone is entitled to there own opionion and you are no different than me with that your way comment. I quess you havent talked to the ones that have good luck with it and asked how they do it either now have you. FYI the next time you buy a vehicle and wonder why the sales tax is 300-500 dollars higher you can thank your new courthouse. Not my opionion just a fact.
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acfarmer
Posted 4/24/2010 21:51 (#1173178 - in reply to #1170582)
Subject: Re: The theory of a dirt clod...


Revere Missouri very northeast corner.
Isnt one of your brothers bigger seed customers south of wyaconda 100% notill. When your dad notilled did he do fertilizer in the row or spread it. How many years did he do it? Trash whippers ect. ect. Just curious.

Edited by acfarmer 4/24/2010 21:53
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