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central oklahoma | looking at buying a hoelscher small bale accumulator, anyone ever used one, any pros or cons. Also does anyone have a bale grapple from dry creek farms in Kansas, I think they call them bale claws | ||
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| jd6400 |
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| www.kuhnsmfg.com. | |||
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| Hedge tree |
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Central Kansas | Dry Creek is a dealer for Hoelscher and I think it is in Hesston, right? Hoelscher is made in Bushton, Ks about 60 miles north of Hesston. This accumlator is attached to tractor hydraulics and places 10 bales on edge, 2 end-to-end, 5 deep. When the accumulator bed is full, the bed dump is activated and they slide off the back in a packet of 10 bales. Pros: tried and true machine....been around quite awhile now with newer versions better than the earlier ones (I think the early ones were reddish...new ones have some white on them). Another pro is more bales per footprint size than when bales are flat or string-side up. There are 8 bales in those packets in the same square footage as the 10 bale package. Cons: older versions, and maybe the new ones, trailed kinda crazy down the road at any speed....like road gear on a tractor. Wheel shimmy. It takes a little learning curve to be able to pick up a packet with your 'claw' or 'grab' without knocking over one of the outside bales as they stand on a little narrower footprint. You get used to it after awhile. The 10 bale on edge deal makes a 4 to 5 tier high wagonload 4" higher per tier due to the 'on-edge' format. It becomes about a wash as to how many you haul per load. ==>The hay grab or claw for any 8 bale packet will work with the Hoelscher bale dump. An old Farmhand fork will work just fine as will some of the newer hay grabs set-up for 8 bale packets. You can buy extra teeth to make any of these grabs a little more fool proof. All-in-all, these are well designed machines that do a good job. New, they are a little spendy | ||
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| CW IL |
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Effingham, IL | Hedgetree, you explained it well! I've had one since 1988 and still use it with out any major problems. It will save your back. It works best with uniform dense bales. If you bale grass hay and they look like "puff balls" it will not work. I bale mostly alfalfa and it works great. Some of the newer balers can make brick bats out of anything though. It takes up lots of shed room and can run into things easily since it stays parallel with the baler. If you bale lots of hay I'd recommend two forks so one can be in the field and one at the barn. Mine can be used on a loader or skidsteer for tight spaces. I even saw one mounted on a forklift. I would buy another my only complaint is the system isn't fool proof and that's probably my problem! Good Luck! Craig | ||
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central oklahoma | You are right about Dry Creek, I was wondering if anyone had one of there claws, they put five rows of hooks instead of four, they say you can pick the bales up in either direction that way making for a little more stable load down the road. I purchased a farmhand grapple last year and added the teeth, used it with a NH1032 wagon, after using the grapple I won't stack in the barn with the wagon again, grapple is ten times better. On the accummulator some have said they have had trouble with the push over arm catching the next bale out of the chamber? have you had any of this?? | ||
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| Hedge tree |
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Central Kansas | Zoom....yes, the push over arm is a little more problematic with the Hoelscher than the old Farm hand accumulator as the Hoelscher actually flips them up on edge after they emerge flat. They will all catch the push over/flip over arm if the length of the bale and position adjustment of the push over/flip over arm are not just about right. Once you get this set, there is only an ocassional problem with this. You can imagine what a broken bale....unseen, like at night......can do to one of these rigs. It is a good thing to be able to see the bales come out and enter the accumulator. I ditched my Hoelscher and am now using a pretty good old Farmhand accumlator so I can see the twine as they are flat on the deck. I have terraced hay ground and was just having a little too much trouble with my help (wife) knocking bales over on the sloping ground. This is just our deal...these accumulators are very, very good machines. We also sell to the horse market and have a fair number of customers who arrive in their little Toyota Tacoma for their 10 bales of alfalfa. I prefer to have them stacked in the shed with the string side up....just an old man's piccadillo I guess. As to the fork.....having the capablility to pick them up from either direction might well be a real advantage to the way some folks store their hay. For us, loading gooseneck trailers, etc....we prefer to have them all oriented the same way in the shed so the older, 4 hook rail forks work fine. You may use the other type to your advantage. Have you looked at the Steffens systems from the NorthWest? They have an accumulator that turns two tie bales E/W while the other 8 on the accumulator deck are N/S. This would build a tie or rail of bales on a semi and you could rotate from one side to the other side of the trailer. They make grabs as well. Also, a Missouri (I think) outfit makes a drag around 8 bale accumulator called the Accumu8 or something on that order and sell a hay grab as well.....both on the moderate to low end pricing compared to hydraulic operated accumlators. I certainly agree with your impression of the handiness of using a grab or claw. Fitting your current baler with an accumulator might well streamline your operation some....but you would have to have trailers to get the bales from the field to the barn. Two loader tractors is a plus...but not essential of course. Good luck with your haying enterprise this summer. | ||
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central oklahoma | I looked at several systems but I like that the bales are on the edge, they guy I am getting the hoelscher from bought a steffen system last year and he said the only problem he had withit was when he shut it off and restarted it, if he had any bales on it it would cause problems because it wanted to start from scratch. When you stack the bales on the trailers do you have a lot of space on each side? Last summer I stacked a few loads and put them 3 wide but it took longer to load and unload that way, should I just make the bales longer??? I talked with a guy from Iowa, Ricksales.com, said he has had trouble with his hoelscher and the push over arm, he cut the front of his bed and added 6 inches to put the front post past the bale chamber, now he says he can bale in any gear and the bales can vary several inches and he has no problem. I have a 4570 hesston baler, not the heavy commercial one, and don't know if I want to just try the accumulator the way it is first before I go and make any modifications to it. I can get the accumulator for 3500, only had 12000 bales ran through, think I will like it better than the NH wagon. | ||
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| Hedge tree |
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Central Kansas | Seems to be a fair price....is it one of the older versions (solid red/orange color)? These machines were not made to be modified to work properly. I do not know the set-up problem with your acquaintance and his accumulator, but it seems pretty drastic to make modifications so it will work. Just my opinion here....but I would set the machine up to your baler according to the manual and give it a trial run. 100's of this machines in operation in Kansas.....and pretty much trouble free. Don't know the trip points and/or activation devices for the Steffen....but you should be able to stop baling and shut things down, then start up again without a problem. Most of the older versions (like the Farmhand) have activation trip levers and 'pop-up' plates. These are essentially fool proof so once again, it might pay to "read the manual" before taking out the fire ax. Stacking on trailers: zoom... I can only tell you what I and others around here with the Hoelscher or Farmhand do....might not be a universal way by any means. All of my 4 wheel hay trailers are 20' or a few inches longer. This allows 3 full 'dumps' of 8 bales to be placed per layer......or 24 bales. There is room on the bottom layer to space the pads or dumps a few inches apart......and then subsequent layers can be built to the back. The backs of my trailers all have a square tubing rack that catches even the bottom half of the 5th layer. It angles back at about a 15 deg angle so you can stack a little to the back with each layer effectively tying your load together a little better. As for the bottom layer...most of these 4 wheel trailers are about 8' wide....my 30' goosenecks are 102" or 8 1/2 '. My bales are about 38-40" long, so here is what I do. The first layer is placed with the tractor loader and claw to the far edge of the trailer (you can mark this point by painting a line down the trailer deck on the near side....but you get used to just about where to go) and released. As you back up, raise the claw about 12" above the pad of bales and when the front edge of the claw is within 12" of the ends of the nearside bales, tip the front edge of the claw down to touch the bales, hook them with the 3rd function and either continue to back up pulling the 4 near bales to edge of the trailer nearest you....or even lift the front of the fork a little to pick the ends up making them easier to pull stopping when the nearside bales are right at the nearside trailer edge. What this leaves you is the edges of the bales on the first layer pretty much even with the outside edges of the trailer.....and a space between the bales down the center of the trailer of about 10-12". The next and subsequent layers are centered on this bottom 'stretched' layer of bales giving you a nice stable base. If your trailers are sized right, you can then set the 2nd layer back about 4" from the front edge, the 3rd about the same place, then the 4th and 5th set back a little pushing against the trailer back. 20' trailer can haul 120 bales like this (with the Farmhand) without strapping the load if you aren't going too far. Most use their little square bale trailers to haul round bales as well and the trailer back can be a hindrance for that operation. My backs are easily removed for that work...and of course, the gooseneck trailers do not have backs. They are stacked toward the front of the trailer using the stem as a stack back for the first 3 layers. You can get more bales by running ridge bales by hand, etc.....but HEY!...this is mechanized muscle and I don't want to defeat its purpose. I just stack them like they come off the accumulator. The 10 pad Hoelscher can be loaded the same way...but local lads don't use a trailer back and simply come in from the rear of the trailer every 2-3 layers and place a layer on from the rear, tying the layers below into the load by crossing them. I suspect this is all about as clear as mud to you and I apologize for that up front. If you like the size of your bales for whatever purpose you make them, then leave them at that length and weight. Adjust your stacking procedure to fit your package size.....and adjust your accumulator to accomodate the bale. These machines are pretty flexible and can be made to fit most any operational deviations. There is always debate about how to stack little square bales. Back in my 'do-it-by-hand' days (late 1950's for crap sake), we put the first layer of a stack on the ground 'cut side up' and sprinkled it with rock salt. Subsequent layers were stacked flat. Others insist that 'cut side down' is the best way but it always seem to me that the open stems on the bottom would help wick moisture. The cut side up position would seem to allow the 'sweat' to occur more effectively. Correct me here if I'm wrong, but the Hoelscher flips the bales out of a side chamber baler with the cut side down. Your Hesston baler would have the cut side facing out....right? Probably doesn't make a flip bit of difference....but we sure can get some hot ones going on a cold day at Cheryl's Cafe over this very subject. I generally get them stirred up...then leave ;o) Ya know....I love talkin' about this stuff. | ||
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central oklahoma | Oh it is pretty clear, I only used the grapple on about 600 bales last year but I am getting the hang of it. As for the hoelscher, that is my feeling as well, just set it up and see how it goes. I have a 30 foot gooseneck, I was able to get over 250 on it, 3 wide on the first 3 layers and two wide on the fourth. I think if I went five layers I could get close to that many. I have a guy I know that has some old cotton trailers that just need new tires, can get the trailer for $100, and I think they should hold about 250. I personally like to put them on the edge, that is why I went with the bale wagon and am now going to try and the hoelscher. I am hoping to get a good summer and maybe put up over 10,000 this summer so I should get a good feel for the accumulator and grapple by then. I know one thing, this is the way to put up little bales nowdays. So do you like your farmhand, when I bought my grapple on an auction last spring for 575, the accumulator went for 800, just didn't like them laying flat. Roeder in Seneca deals with them alot said some parts are hard to get. WE will have to swap emails and talk sometime about hay, been doing hay for years but just started in the last few to put alot of little ones up and selling them to horse people around. I am only about 20 miles from Oklahoma City so I can get rid of it pretty easily, sometimes right out of the field. Well drop me a line sometime at [email protected], talk to you later. | ||
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| Hedge tree |
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Central Kansas | I captured your E-mail address and have it filed away. Hay supplies are tough in your part of the country. I have a number of customers from the Clayton, OK area....all quarter horse folks. I would expect you do some coastal as well...sells good. Good luck on the accumlator. I just don't think you will have too much trouble. | ||
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