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West Texas | I am back to trying to figure out what is wrong with 8520. It smokes all the time not bad but smoke all the time. At a distance it doesn't sound quite right. Was told on here before to flush the injectors. I asked my dealer and they have never heard of a kit from Deere to do this. Mechanic and i were looking at the fuel rail and there is some type of valve that I assume is some type of bypass, could it be bad? It just doesn't have the power it should compared to 84's. I have changed filters. Not getting any codes. The number 2 injector line has been replaced twice as well as the injector. Could something possibly need to be calibrated? Its an 02 model. |
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West Texas | Jeremy, our older 8420 sounds like crap when piddling around with it and not pulling it hard. Put a load on it and it smooths out and runs good. It smokes a lot when you goose it.
It has 6000+ hrs on it. It's had it share of fuel related problems. Mostly check valves plugging with tank shavings. It had a fuel system update early on in it's life. |
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West Texas | Did codes always signal a problem? Mine smokes pulling. Dealer isn't too much help, so I guess its my pony to ride. |
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| have they checked the rail pressure on it??? if its low that would be a dead give away of either a check valve stuck, or a bad cp3 pump i would think. just a guess |
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West Texas | Just a little. Not bad. |
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| i dont know if Deere's diagnostic layout is simular to a duramax or not, but on a dmax you can hook it up to a scan tool and see the desired pressure and compare it to the actual pressure on the rail. |
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West Texas | Its just a little but all the time. When you "Giver her the gas" it blows a lot. But when your running wide open under load or going down the highway it has a steady strem of smoke. Also wide open doesn't sound quite right but its not a dead miss. Mechanic said black smoke means air problem. I don't know. |
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West Texas | The independent mechanic I use said that is what we need to check next. But tech manual doesn't show pressures so we're going to have to get our hands on the fuel manual. How did your peas turn out? Grades? Did you get your money, I haven't 13 months later with a lawyer. |
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| funny you ask about peas. NO i havent gotten paid yet but you guessed it ---the check is in the mail. supposed to have been cleaned this past week and waiting on grades. its just been 90 days since they were harvested. I think ive learned the pea lesson, and KNOW ive learned the safflower one!
figure out how to widen the pulse width and up the rail pressure :) youll have you something then |
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West Texas | The pea lesson is an expensive one. I have also learned that you better have your act together as far as paperwork. If I ever grow peas again I will have a lawyer write a contract for me, but with this bad taste in my mouth I don't see that happening to soon. What were your dirt weights? Did you take a sample from each truck? |
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| black smoke is an indicator of not enough air check filter and turbo |
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| all truck loads were kept separate. dunno yet on the dirt weights. what im worried about is the idiot unloading my trucks driving though the peas on the floor with a skidsteer to pile them up and what effect it has on my grades when they pull the traps on the truck on a solid floor and tell the driver to pull up and pulls the trailer though the peas!!
just messaged a deere tech friend of mine and he said the high side of the pressure scale should be around 25000, and to take all fittings and valves loose and look for trash. |
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West Texas | Replaced filers multiple times. What do i check on the turbo? |
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West Texas | Sounds good! I'm gonna start looking tomorrow. |
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| after he mentioned the trash suggestion, reminded me----my dad had a simular prob on his 8320 and it had sucked bugs from the fuel tank all the way up to the filter housing. so look in all fittings for trash
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West Texas | Was it smoking? |
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| check for boost leak on the aftercooler fittings. check boost pressure too |
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West Texas | Where abouts? |
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| all the fittings that pipe the charge air from the turbo to the cooler and from the cooler bck to the motor. if you have much of a leak you will deff be able to hear it. |
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West Texas | Would soap water work at an idle? |
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| I had a 8430 I was running, when I would get into hills or a hard spot it would roll the coal and didnt feel like it had all the ponys it should. Called the deere dealer and they came out and it was a rubber boot after the turbo that had a hole in it and it was losing boost. |
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| more than likely it wont work at idle. youre going to have to load the engine up in order to build boost. at idle it will prob have a vaccum on it instead of a pressure
Edited by TXCUTTER 12/22/2009 23:48
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| does it have either assist on it??? if so screw the fitting out and plumb you a pressure guage into it. prob a 0-30 lb guage will work. when you start loading the engine the pressure should come up. if it dont or doesnt come up much youve deff gott an air problem |
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| just guessing but it should have around 25-30 psi under a hard pull |
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Ethridge, TN | I think I'd chase the air system before I'd do much with fuel at this point. Black smoke, is "usually" a sign of unburnt fuel. Take a spray bottle, mix up a soap solution and start checking all the fittings from the turbo to the intake. Also check the cooler over good, as they can crack. Next thing might be, by looking at parts, this has a waste gate on it, that could also be your problem. Hopefully there is somewhere you can get a gauge in the air system and check the boost pressure. |
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Southeast Florida | That's what I'm think could be an issue. Have you checked the turbo boost pressure? I have no idea what it should be but I'm sure Lil Hoss or another JD tech on here could answer that question. If I remember correct there were some issues with the air-to-air cooler cracking. Didn't the 02 models have that fuel filter update? We had a bunch of 02 8220’s that had the fuel filter update and several of them had cooler problems too. |
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Southeast Florida | When you try to chase an air leak on those tractors with soap and water, the cooling fan blows bubbles everywhere. |
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West Texas | Thats what i FIGURED |
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West Texas | What controls the wastegate? |
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| i think its a spring loaded one not certain though |
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Ethridge, TN | Parts states that it's a hose, but it doesn't show it, in the break down. There should be an oil feed line, a larger return line for oil, and then the 3rd line would be the waste gate control. Haven't had to diagnosis this particular problem before on the tractors, but have had related problems with combines, and it is usually air related. |
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West Texas | Thanks I've done a 360 on my problem. |
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West Texas | An air problem won't make it miss. A fuel problem will. |
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West Texas | That's the part I'm not sure about. I can't say its a miss but just doesn't sound right. The independent mechanic couldn't really say either. The closer you are the more strange it sounds. If you back away its not too bad. But it is most evident when the tractor is running away. Which is when your looking at the back of the tractor. |
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NESD | There have been some issues with the Suction Control Valve on the hi pressure injection pump causing low power and excessive smoke. There really isn't a good test to prove/disprove that the valve is bad, it is easy to change but you need to be extra careful to not get anything into the pump when changing it, The flush may help with the Suction Control Valve too as it will clean any deposits from the valve.
Have your dealer look up DTAC Solution # 84160, this details the Injector Flush Tool SW10015JD |
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West Texas | Our older 8420 is at the dealer now for ILS problems (accumulators out) and they are going to dyno it. It smokes terribly bad when cold, can't stand to be close to it but once it warms up it's not too bad. Goose it and it will throw out a big cloud of smoke.
Last time I talked about it with the service manager he said we can clean up the smoke and the miss but said we would not like the tractor afterward as it would not have near as much power. He claimed new injectors would fix it.
Not sure what to tell you .
Right now our dealer is running the free inspection pick/delivery program. You might check with them? You may be too far to qualify for the free pickup/delivery but it won't hurt to call them.
I'm headed to bed. |
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Southeast Florida |
Here's a thought, you could have a loose injector wire under the valve cover causing it to not fire properly.
Edited by Fla Veggie Farmer 12/23/2009 01:15
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| I've had the air to air hose clamps slide off and cause one of my 8000's to smoke and pull poorly. It kinda whistles under load. |
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Ethridge, TN | Without being there to hear it, I was just wondering if what he might be hearing wasn't an air leak. The harder you run it, the louder it "should' be. I've seen 2 different aftercoolers on the combines crack on the bent corners of the cooler. Could very well still be a fuel problem, but usually lots of black smoke equates to unburnt fuel. So if the air system checks out, then it might take a computer to figure it out. Could be dumping fuel late, or if the injector tips have gotten bad, it might be it's just dumping fuel, without atomizing it properly. George's idea of an electrical connection to an injector could also be a possibility. Air system is exposed enough, to just eliminate that possibility first, before you start opening things up. |
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Central Iowa | Air problems have been mentioned several times. You'd have to hook a gauge up to the turbo and check the boost under load. Air leaks aren't always easy to find with all the air generated by the fan. We had an 8770 with this kind of problem. It turned out that the aftercooler had a good-sized crack in the bottom of it. Finally took it off and checked it after numerous attempts to locate an air leak. Made kind of a "whooshing sound" under load. |
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8520 problems
