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| As far as I can tell by reading what he wrote, he wants them to hang the wires high enough to meet the minimum standard and give him enough clearance in the process. There are standards for a reason.
To the OP, work with them but be forceful. We had the same thing happen along a few of our fields last year. First we contacted the company and they said “well you have access to fiber internet now so you should be happy.” But when I pointedly let them know I still don’t have access at my house because they didn’t think my road was worth the cost and I didn’t care about their wires they agreed to come look it over. We had installed wood supports under the wires in the middle of the space between each set of poles to gain clearance for the grain cart and had done the same at 2 other field entrances so we could get into the fields. It was obvious they were way too low when the guy came out. Ended up raising their wires for over a mile along the field and raised them at both field entrances for us as well. Part of me still wishes I had ripped a few down but that wouldn’t have helped me in dealing with them.
Which gets another peeve of mine going. Access points for buried phone lines around here drive me nuts. Lots of boxes that have been completely trashed by cars going off the road and the road mowing crews but no one fixes them. If they aren’t in service come clean them up and remove them, if they’re in service maintain the stuff. Just galls me |
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NW MN | 40 feet for broadband does seem to excessive. If they provided a free lawyer to review would you trust them? Devils advocate here but why should they trust you that your buddy who is a lawyer in a hypothetical situation isn’t going to over bill for your review on their dime?
Would 10 foot easement work for you? I think you’re justified to push back on the bull**** clearance over a driveway/field access and probably on the easement width.
Locally owned phone/cable company is burying cable thus summer through at least two of my fields but family and friends will get service as a result so I had no problem signing the easement but it’s been awhile and I don’t believe it’s 40 feet wide. |
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| Thank you. Yes, you have it right. Even if it is only high enough at one end of the 0.25 miles as a "field access point" that would be acceptable. It's not what they are offering but I will see. |
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Roseglen, North Dakota | Well then the wire owner is at fault. If you really wanted them higher you cd legally force them to raise them.
There has to be more to this story. If that is an electrical wire they wd be liable if someone is electrocuted.
Must be a non electric wire. |
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| Yes, you are right. 10ft would be better and their lawyer would be something I would be willing to try. If they said we will give you $X for a lawyer so it is fixed amount I would have been happy with that. But their immediate and agressive push back when I started asking questions instead of just accepting it was a bit...shocking to me. I remained open to discussing with them but they just switched to saying they will hang low cables instead. I still hope it can be worked out but I would rather just be left in peace.
Edited by andya 7/4/2024 00:19
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NW MN | Non local phone company, Frontier, also has not maintained or repaired damaged access points for their old copper lines. Wrap an orange bag around them and call it good it seems. The remaining customer base has to be small. |
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NW MN | Downward spiral and others here seemed to give excellent information to strengthen your stance on access height being a red herring and a good chance to negotiate on the width of burial easement after calling them on their threats.
Cool heads and don’t let where the line is going to affect your reasoning. |
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NW MN | Easements are recorded at the county courthouse with other real estate filings like deeds. |
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| Thank you. I appreciate it. |
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| Thanks. That is good to know. I've never had to deal with anything like this before. |
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coast of Maine | They then would need bigger/taller poles or cross arms on electrical line. |
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| What more is there? I would need to look at it again to see which wires they are, all I know is when he was turning the combine around the folded up auger brushed the line and somehow something got shorted and blew the fuse on a pole down the road.
We have called on this line multiple times but nothing has happened. We just quit farming the last two passes of the field instead of going around it. Field was wet there anyway and it was no loss. |
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Chebanse, IL..... | We have somewhat the same problem on a field. There are electric power poles along the road and field access points (2 of them...kind of). The power lines are at a height of not being a problem. However, there is some type of cable tv wire hanging under it. Seems the power company has a requirement that such cables be no closer than 24" or so to the electric wires. So, the cable tv thing hangs down, drooping a lot between the poles due to the size of the rubber covered cable itself. We can't get any tractors or equipment under it, but a semi tractor can just barely squeeze under it, though the tips of the exhaust stacks may brush it.
The access culvert to the field in the center (160A field) ironically sits on a hill being the highest point of the road side of the farm. Great for drainage, it's always dry there. However, that's also where the cable hangs lowest, especially in the heat of summer. We have to access the field at a corner where the wires are highest.
Yes, some have suggested an "accidental cable snag" might be in order. But as I closely examined the cable, I note that could be an expensive deal. The black cable itself is meshed with a common wire-rope type cable to hold it up. Probably 3/4" diameter. Kind of like triplex wiring, only the wire rope cable is larger than triplex wiring. I think there would a lot of machine damage if you snagged it.
Funny thing is, no one knows what the cable is for. Have never seen a maintenance crew or truck for it. Contact power company some suggest? Come on....have you ever heard of Commonwealth Edison? Might as well try to call Putin on the phone. Should be simple solution? I will gladly pay someone for their time & trouble if they solve it. |
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Chebanse, IL..... | I'm not real sure about the 13' 6" thing. I thought the same thing, however some have explained that it has to be 13'6 at the pole, and that's for the power wires. Cable tv stuff hangs under that & sags to less than 13'6 in many cases, especially in the heat of summer here. |
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sw corner ia. | that would be up to the com. co. min height is still in force. |
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northeastern Ohio | Print this chart. It is pretty clear the NESC (National Electrical Safety Code) code is 15.5 feet for communication cable including fiber optic:
https://northcentralelectric.com/files/NESC%20Communication%20Cleara...
https://www.thespruce.com/safe-clearances-for-overhead-power-lines-1...
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Chebanse, IL..... | I realize IL may be different. But I guarantee that most of the "communication cables" I know of are not 15.5' over traffic.
We tore one down in our local town a few years back with just a folded field cultivator that was NOT 15' tall. Cable tv company had hung a cable across a street and it drooped. It ripped pretty easily. I coiled it up & threw it alongside a sidewalk. I believe it may have been anchored to houses on either side, or at least one house. Whenever we buy folding equipment, we make sure we try & get the lowest "folded height" possible. Sometimes that means you have to settle for a narrower implement than you'd like for field use.
Electric power companies here do a good job at height clearance. Those "communication cable" (?) companies are the main culprits. The best part is trying to figure out whose cable it is. Someone should know, right? Who? And, is that person accessible by you and I? |
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Thumb of Michigan | This is for MICHIGAN. I don't know how other states do things like this- but reading the responses, I'm not sure if the right parties are being contacted. Too much partial info maybe.
In Michigan, the chain of command and backed by either state or federal statues as it were for ROW is :
1. Rail roads.
2. Roads and highways.
3. Drainage district/ Drain commissioner.
4. Utilities.
Oddly enough, any time a utility of any kind is involved, utilities seem to enter the discussions convinced that they're somewhere up above Rail Roads in terms of position in this ROW thing. And they aren't. Even if they say they are.
So, again in Michigan, the utility is in someone else's ROW if its placed in a road, drain, or RR ROW. They're there because one (or all in combination) of those entities granted the use of the ROW. In this case, it sounds as if the utility is in a road ROW. So, if this were in Michigan, and the utility paralleled the road and was in the road row, the road commission would be a very good place to begin the discussion on things like clearances under the wire.
The other thing that is not confusing but yet still always gets described incorrectly is road ROW. Again, in Michigan, the state statute gave 66' of ROW "ON THE SECTION LINE" for roads and drains. What happened in a lot of places is that the drain starts on one side of the 66' ROW, and was dug with the spoils providing fill for the road to be built. So, there's absolutely no way for the road ROW to start in the center of the road. The road isn't in the center of the ROW. I've seen very, very few times where the section line monuments are in the center of any road. Its also quite common for issues arising because someone did something based on measuring from the center of a road. In Michigan, property taxes are not supposed to be assessed on both drain and road ROW, so thats maybe the second most quoted incorrect statement. No one pays taxes to the center of the road.
Anyway, not knowing at all how the ROWs are granted in the OP's state, I'd be asking more questions to someone other than the company wanting to string new wire as to what they need to do to make you safe and happy. I have a driveway in one location right now that has a communication cable way lower than the utility lines are. Doesn't make a lot of difference to me now, not bringing anything very tall into that drive. But if it does become an issue, if the utility won't raise it, the road commission would be my next stop. The road commission of course wouldn't fix the problem, they'd make the call to get it fixed usually. |
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Central Iowa | Andya you don't list your location but in Iowa minimum power line height is 18' not sure on phone or cable lines. In my county the phone lines must be buried in the road right of way. On gravel right in the road on hard surface in the ditch. About 30 years ago Ma Bell asked for an easement to bury a fiber optic line through our farm from a microwave tower they put it about 10' from the fence which was about as close as they could get with their equipment. It hasn't been a problem I put a new tile line in a couple years ago and was surprised how big the line is, it's almost an inch in diameter.
I understand what you're dealing with like others have said there are rules they have to follow. The company knows the rules and are just trying to get the line up the cheapest way they can. Stay professional but protect your property rights. |
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East of Broken Bow | andya - 7/4/2024 00:00
These are the two options I've been offered. Pray tell us which one you would choose. You don't get any other option. This was forced on you out of the blue.
1. A 0.25 mile x 40 ft wide easement with a bunch of restrictions and new obligations that goes over cropland on one side (no crops can be planted) with no compensation. Not even legal fees to have someone review it.
2. A wire too low to get a combine onto the field
Be honest.
My point was that I didn't invite any of this.
There always has to be one person that is argumentative instead of constructive.
They put a new fiber optic line by my place a few years ago. Was originally offered something similar.
They really, really wanted it underground, but wanted some restrictions on it, but not as much as you stated.
Long story short, we worked with them, and they agreed to run the line right at the edge of the ROW, which we don't normally farm directly over anyway. Also be sure it has a clause so that it specifies that the line needs to be buried deep enough so that if we snag it while engaged in a farming practice, we are not liable for damage (basically if we catch it with farm machinery including a subsoiler, we have no liability, but we don't dig in the area with a backhoe without getting the line located first or we could be held responsible. Worked well for us. It seems their first offer which wasn't far from yours was their default offer, hoping people accept it. It didn't take hardly any effort to get them to agree to follow the ROW line. If I had to guess, they were just hoping everyone took their 'offer' because that would take the least amount of time, effort, and $$$ on their end.
(For those that are unfamiliar with the ROW, it is short for 'Right of Way', and it is the imaginary line that separates what I am supposed to farm, and what the county is supposed to maintain for the road.) |
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SW Michigan | This was the situation in my field across from my house. The powerline was just high enough, but when they put their fiber line several feet lower, it wasn’t OK anymore.
The fiber installers were outside contractors, and installed the wire at just above tractor cab height. Since it was pasture at the time , I let it go for several years. .
Last year I called the local utility, and they set new poles to get it up out of the way. Unfortunately, they had to add another pole to get it over the rise, but I can live with that, I guess.
I had no issues having that done before harvest.
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Years ago, when I built my barn there was a powerline running across the roof of the old building, which I wanted to raise. The local utility told me that they had to have 12 feet of clearance above a building, they buried the line for me no problem. This was an electrical line not fiber.
I’d check with the owner of the poles..
They will have to deal with it for the next 40 years.
People installing the fiber are likely outside contractors trying to do it on the cheap.
DAN |
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Wheelersburg and Lancaster, Ohio | I’ve probably got a dozen phone or cable lines with my combine or equipment on a trailer over the years. Only one I have ever reported was in my parent’s yard. Mom told them when they came to fix it if it wasn’t higher than 13’6” I’d probably hit it again. They moved it up. I also hit an electrical line once with a sprayer boom that was totally fault. They came and fixed it quickly with no charge, fine or fee to me. If they hang it low you are going to eventually hit it no matter how hard you try not to. |
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NC Indiana | I went thru this last fall. We pulled out of a field and went 200 feet to the lane of the next field. When we pulled in the extension of the combine hit the fiber cable. The cable has a steel cable piggy backed with it. It broke our extension motor and the glass in the grain tank. Call cable company. They came right away. Check height in the drive at 15'4". They said they had to have 15' of clearance. Problem is they checked at the drive and the combine is 6' wider and the yard is humped making it less than 15' of clearance for our machine. I asked if they could pull some slack out of the line sag. Nothing has ever been done on their part. Probably never will unless something takes it down.
As a side note our regulations here state 15' minimum clearance with 20' minimum clearance at driveways and haulageways. |
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ND | The way things work from state to state can be different but these easements are getting ridiculous the power companies and places running fiber got these easements most likely years ago for nothing especially phone and power. Ok i understand people need power but things are just not the same as it was 50 years ago heck 30 years ago. Have had a major problem with fiber being ran everywhere around here and finally seems the local townships are making them get permission from landowner to trench/bore but there is a bunch that is put in without landowner permission previously. To me the state and county right of ways if they use thats fine as the landowner doesn't own it and they can give easement to who they want. As far as townships its BS as a landowner owns to middle of the road now I understand the townships have right to maintain roads and make it available for traffic but when buying property at auction im buying deeded acres and am also taxed on them acres so to me these fiber companies need to be paying and getting easements from the property owner especially since these lines look to mostly just be trenched in and no service just a lot of government money to lay them in the ground. One company lumen technology i finally figured out owns 1 that went through some property. Looked to see if somehow they had a previous easement or able to as took over a previous company with one but couldn’t find it. So called them and good luck pretty sure the company is a joke scamming money sure they have their name lumen field in Seattle. Took me 2 solid days to finally talk to somebody in USA and they gave me numbers to their easement people that covered this area and of course fake email and number. Seriously ridiculous. |
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Floyd County, Iowa | jd8850 - 7/3/2024 19:21
Better to work with them than against them.
This is the wrong place to get the rules.
Height requirements are different for:
Each state
Communication wire generally can be lower than electrical wire.
You are prolly being a little proactive.
I cannot imagine a wire so low it won't clear a 13.5 ft combine.
Regarding cultivators and air drills you can unfold the wings.
There are no "winners" if you tear down the wire no matter whose fault it is.
But on NAT, it seems to be more fun to act tough, thump the chest, and declare childish challenges. |
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NCIA | Perhaps a workable compromise would be to bury between one set of poles for access? Not ideal, but it is what it is. Your probably both stuck with each other. |
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| “Here” property owner owns to center of the road in most cases, pays taxes on it as well. County has a right of way 21’ from the center of the road each side.Utility poles, phone cables, etc are located in that right way at county’s discretion. Farmer is not to encroach(farm) into that right Use to be the county mowed the right of ways but no longer, if you want it mower farmer mows it. I know a couple cases that the county has fined a farmer for farming into the right away though that is rare |
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South Central Illinois | In our are,
2 State highways,
The one build in 1927 is on easements with the property.
The one build in 1937 is on State owned property.
One couple,
That own a house along the 1927 highway,
Blocked a waterline from being installed on the ROW.
Another family blocked a Fiber Optic line from being installed. |
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St. Joseph, Champaign County, IL | If the guy wires are outside of the easement, there is no right for them to be placed there. |
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Ravenna Ohio | Might check law enforcement. They are the ones that write the related tickets. Ohio has minimum standards on and off road. We removed many improperly placed wires without repercussions. LEO once laughed as I was shouting to a driver who couldn't begin to hear me as he cleared a number of lines going down the road. Most attached to the houses . |
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| Professional but protect rights - absolutely. Words to live by. Thank you so much. |
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St. Joseph, Champaign County, IL | Sri was replying to the OP. |
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SESD | Yes. Easements are for a specific use only and the terms will be in the document. The easmenet is attached to the land record that it affects. |
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SESD | Laws vary by state on a prescriptive easement. Just to clarify Ben's post. |
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| Busted Piston - 7/4/2024 06:32
What more is there? I would need to look at it again to see which wires they are, all I know is when he was turning the combine around the folded up auger brushed the line and somehow something got shorted and blew the fuse on a pole down the road.
We have called on this line multiple times but nothing has happened. We just quit farming the last two passes of the field instead of going around it. Field was wet there anyway and it was no loss.
You call your states utility commission |
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| Busted Piston - 7/4/2024 06:32
What more is there? I would need to look at it again to see which wires they are, all I know is when he was turning the combine around the folded up auger brushed the line and somehow something got shorted and blew the fuse on a pole down the road.
We have called on this line multiple times but nothing has happened. We just quit farming the last two passes of the field instead of going around it. Field was wet there anyway and it was no loss.
You call your states utility commission |
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nw pa | After talking local REA engineer it see that most don’t want hassle They just string the lines without checking with REA. Who will then install taller post at the expense of fiber optic.
They are just blowing smoke unti they properline clearance through REA engineering dept don fall for it |
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Combine Access and Utility Poles
