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South Central IN | I’m working with three 20x60 stave silos with pack drive unloaders. The unloaders date back into the 60’s I’m guessing, but have been pretty well kept. Since they are slow and a lot of maintenance, at some point, I’m ready to say so long to the silos and go to either a pad or bunker. I have no interest in bags. They look like a mess. I need to store about 1000 tons of corn silage. I have a hill I can dig into to make a pit, maybe 5-6’ deep. I feed 80% of my silage Oct-April. I would be filling tmr wagons with a skid steer. What works and what doesn’t?
Concrete or asphalt base?
Three sided, just 2 side walls or a flat pad?
Is any certain depth ideal?
Poured walls, construction blocks or precast?
Estimated cost?
Thanks
Don |
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west central Iowa | If you're only going 5-6' deep you could trench and pour the walls first and then dig it out. No experience with asphalt, but there are are plenty of concrete floors around that were poured in the early 70s that are still good. |
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| Unless you need to put your pit in the hill for room just pour a big pad with a slope so the water runs away. Make the pile as tall as the skid loader can reach
And cover it with plastic
Edited by Iowa-beef 11/29/2023 20:55
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west central Ohio | Bags are only a mess if you let them get that way.
We do all in bags. Great way to keep feed for small operations like ours
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| Flat pad concrete |
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Galena IL | I do custom bagging. If the farmstead is messy the bag pad is messy. Neat farmstead neat bag pad. On a smaller operation bags are a very good fit. You won’t see it but I’ll assure you at least 10% or your feed value will go up in the air do to heat loss from not getting enough feed off the face every day... Dennis |
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whitesville new york | Donald - 11/29/2023 09:56
Bags are only a mess if you let them get that way.
We do all in bags. Great way to keep feed for small operations like ours
I was going say the same. Takes a little time a day patience |
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west central Ohio | Would that depend upon the size of the bag and the amount of feed that you fed out of a bag each and every day? |
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SEMO | We have bunkers bags and even make a small pile the bags have the least amount of waste once you have a good rock base down it takes very little maintenance to keep the pad in good shape for those tons a bag would be the simplest way to go |
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Columbia Basin, Ephrata, WA | Donald - 11/30/2023 05:47
Would that depend upon the size of the bag and the amount of feed that you fed out of a bag each and every day?
Yes, but keep in mind that the open face of even the biggest bag would equal the face of a very small pile.
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nw NC | What is age and condition of the silos? If still good condition and structurally sound, use them. If needing relined and perhaps a reinforcing concrete wall 6 inches thick by 4 feet high poured all way around them at the bottom to make them safe for more years of use, then you've got to consider the cost of that versus the cost of a concrete pad large enough to store the same tonnage as those three 20 X 60's . Charts I have seen state approx. 450 tons per silo ( 1350 tons total).
Charts below show capacities of bags, walled bunkers and piles. Consider the square footage areas that would need to be hard-surfaced with either concrete or asphalt for the bunker or pile . Storage area for bags could perhaps suffice with a well compacted graveled surface but still at a cost. Considering that ready mix concrete delivered is around $150/yard or more (here), calculate the square footage area that is needed to store your silage tonnage in bunker or pile. Divide by 81 if 4 inches thick or 54 if 6 inches thick to get the quantity of concrete needed. Pour it yourself or hire it done?
What would be the cost of enough bags to store the same amount as you are putting through the silos? Also cost of bagger rental? Cost of those bags and rental of bagger I suspect would be more each year than upkeep/repairs on silo unloaders. Cost of sheet of plastic cover for a pile would be more than for a bunker ( pile covers more area). Could you keep the face of a pile or bunker fed fast enough to stay ahead of spoilage?
Are you now chopping your own crop or hiring it done? Lots of things to consider.
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Sw mn | Flat pad with no sidewalls.
Att my be place I have a 20 foot wide piece of cement I put a 50’ wide pile on. I can always get feed no matter the weather and don’t have that much into cement.
Would like to have cement as wide as the pile but there are more profitable things to do with money. |
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South Central IN | Right now, we have wagons and the blower, but hire the chopper. If I were to keep using the silos, the unloaders are due for replacement. Last time I asked, a ring drive was about 18k times three. The condition of the silos aren’t bad, but I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to spend 5K to fix odds and ends.
Right now the unloader speed, repairs and downtime are killers when I’m trying to get anything done in a day. |
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Edgerton MN | Most areas you can find unloaders in good condition for a fraction of new cost. |
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Fairbury, NE (Southeast) | We still use a single bag on a yard where most of the cows are. It works well because as stated, there is little to no shrink and we only feed 2-3k a day. The problem with bags if you don't use a custom guy or feed much is
-high priced bag per ton. It is 4 dollars a ton just in plastic. 12-14 years you are half way to a pad.
-slow to fill.
-Maintenance of a bagger is not a zero dollar proposition.
-high risk of coon damage.
-slow to pull out of compared to bunker.
-disposal of plastic just plain sucks.
-in very cold conditions on a smaller bag there is a large percentage that freezes. Near a foot. Not fun as it can split the plastic.
imo anything over 300 ton I would set up a bunker.
I may be biased because we have used silage bags for over 30 years. That's long enough.
Edited by dt4020 11/30/2023 18:21
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nc nebraska butte | What kind of dirt in hillside
Good black dirt or clay just put concrete in floor and use dirt sides
30 x what ever you need for length and still drive feed wagon in and load without backing all the way out with loader.
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South Central IN | We have really light sand. None of that black soil in our part of the world. |
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South Central IN | What’s the cost for plastic cover? Is it reusable? Is it tires or sidewalls that are most often used to hold it down? |
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Ryan, IA | if you have the room to dig into the hill, I would do that, but remember to keep a little slope so water will not run back into your feed. you stated that you feed 80% in short order. How long does the last 20% last? Well managed bunkers do not have any more loss than bags, and well managed bags do not have any more loss than bunkers. Both of them require 6 inches of face removal daily. When we talk about well managed bunkers it starts with packing. This can be an expensive process if the chopper is to big ( end up with poor pack & spoilage),or too small ( tractors running that are not doing anything), and then management ends with feed out. If a bunker were to last all year you are talking about needing a 180 foot long bunker. Packing density of sileage at 45# per square foot and a 7 foot average depth would require a 35 foot wide bunker. 7 foot of average depth would be 6 foot on each edge and 8 foot in the middle. 6 mil plastic will cost you 5-5.5 cents per square foot. Tire sidewalls to cover the plastic cover will cover about 12 square foot each and you would need about 525 of them. They each cost around 2.50 and will last forever. as far as reusing the plastic, darn near impossible as if you tried to roll it back as you fed it you would be creating a very nice rodent house and when it is cold and icy it is tough enough to remove 1 row of sidewalls and cut 3.5 feet of plastic off. With bags it is easier to use more than 6 inches so no facer would be required but with a bunker some care needs to be done to make sure you don't introduce air into the pile before you feed it so probably a face would be best. lots of ways of doing it, you'll have to decide what you want to invest to get it done. |
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53925 | What works is management. I've seen poor feed from all options and great feed from all options. One major thing to consider when bagging is handling dm changes, thats where a bunker or pile with a skilled push person shine. Very little dm changes beef type operation it's not as big of an issue as dairy. Bags are only as good as the surface they are on and take less up front cost but more daily management. Best thing for feeding out of bags on "poor" base is a tracked skid loader. Bunker can be made long and somewhat narrow just keep in mind pack tractor needs to be able to get full coverage and make a good sized apron so you're not always off the edge so to speak. Think about getting tires on it to cover when choosing a place as well as harvest equipment traffic. Also this sounds dumb but lighting, if you can put a pole up high with a nice bright light on it. Makes night time covering , plastic cutting etc nice. In a side hill drain tile sounds great but becomes rat heaven. A pile is nice because you're not boxed in so to speak just make sure all 4 sides can be packed well and there again all things like a bunker. Depth is going to be dimensions so you can feed 8 inches a day. Narrow short but long is what I'd be looking at. I did construction blocks and learned the hard way to tarp the walls aka 2 pieces of plastic on lining each wall then lapped together when covering. pre cast with the cost of trucking was the same as poured last year oct. 8 foot walls 35 wide 150 long 2 foot shorter back wall (lets water off so you don't have water sitting) with a 50 front apron came in at 160,000 and a pad 200 long by 60 wide was 100,000. All in on both same contractor for site work. I went pad. I rent a farm with asphalt floor and it's thick but became a mess when previous renter used skid loader on it and loaded in the bunker so the turning has had quite an affect on it Sorry this got long winded waiting to go to the dr |
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South Central IN | We fatten one cycle of yearlings during the winter that uses the vast majority of silage. I usually have some silage over the summer for some dry lot cows, but that could be optional if I would harvest some spring wheat/triticale baleage to feed through the summer. Heaviest silage use is October-December. Cattle ration shifts to more corn Jan-April. |
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nw NC | What brand are your old unloaders? |
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E ND | Although the uprights make great feed, their unloading speed and logistics is really more suited for a "hand-fed" feeding operation in an indoor setting in a dairy, or through something automated (bunk-line feeder, auger/trough) where you can turn it on and go do something else. Climbing for maintenance and opening doors isn't the safest thing on the farm and not for those getting older and feeding high volumes.
Waiting for an upright to unload 4 tons of silage per day into a wagon is painful (watching the meter, cranking the silo down several times, etc.) and a lot of those setups weren't designed in a way to get feed outside as the unloading doors faced the interior of the feed room/barn. Conveyor out the door/wall? Still slow.
If they were in good shape with good unloaders I'd say use them up then go to something else outside but it sounds like you're already there! You can always use concrete for something, not very high risk to try a flat pile one year then bags the next. |
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Kingdom of Callaway - Fulton, Mo 65251 | I had a bunker dug back into a hillside, and it was always a mess. After reading on here for several years, I poured a new concrete pad for a drive over pile. First year was 40 by 150, then second year added on to make it 85x250. Being able to drive over both directions when packing does a really good job with my equipment. It is FAST filling, and feeding out of.
I bought a bag of silage at a local auction this past spring. I had never fed out of one. Callao Jon on here gave me good advice - don't let anyone watch when you load out of one the first time! After a load it went smooth, and the silage kept really well. But it is slow and I would only use a bag if I was feeding smaller amounts a day and was worried about keeping a pile face fresh.
I would spend your money available on a flat pad and add to it as needed. Best bang for the Buck.
I have never regretted pouring concrete. You could always feed cattle on it, or add a building over it if you stop using it for silage. |
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Central MN | Buy a decent pull type chopper, find some good used unloaders, and save the money you’d spend of a pad for other things. We filled 4 9x200 bags and 2 20x70 silos with a pulls type in about 40-50 hours total and that’s next pushing to hard |
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South Central IN | These are all Silomatic pack drives. They are built about an hour west of us which is a good option for parts when needed in a hurry. |
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SW NE | +1 ! |
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west central Ohio | How much slope ? |
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| Go price a pad. You'll hug your silos. Lots of good used unloaders around. |
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Educate me on silage bunkers/pads
