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| The more I research the more interested I am in purchasing a combine. I would like to start small (maybe smalller than the two listed) so that if things don't work out schedule wise I won't feel bad about letting it sit and having the custom harvesters do everything. If it does work out, I would consider cutting alongside them. Anyways, for now, I was wondering what I could expect in terms of capacity (in corn with an 8 row head and wheat with a stripper header) for these two combines as well as maintenance costs. I would be running with a smaller graincart usually in 100 bushel corn but sometimes in 200 bushel corn (for the irrigated) so unloading auger speed and bin capacity is important too. I don't know where to get specifications for older combines so that's why I'm looking here. The immediate advantage appears to be to the 8820 because of cost. In other posts that I have read, the 8820 is actually pretty close in capacity to a 9600 which I thought had more capacity than a 1680, but I really don't know numbers so any information you can provide would be appreciated. Thanks.
Edited by dpilot83 7/27/2009 08:16
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Stayner, Ontario, Simcoe County | DANIEL - THE 1680 HAS A ROTOR VERSUS THE JD WITH A CLYINDER FOR THRESHING . THE DOCKAGE WILL BE LOWER WITH THE RED MACHINE. DOES THE 1680 HAVE A CUMMINS OR IHC ENGINE? WE PREFER THE CUMMINS ENGINE. PLUS THE SEIVES WILL BE LONGER. SAME AS USED IN 1688 AND NEWER SERIES. |
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Callao Missouri | There is a big reason why an 8820 is a whole lot cheaper than a 1680. What you save on initial purchase you will spend on repairs in the first season. Also if you do buy a 00 or 20 series combine your relationship with the Lord will suffer greatly. You will learn new words, and how to put them into the same sentences without repeating a word.
1680, straight forward easy to work on SIMPLE to maintain and I would venture to bet that with a kile rotor flight that it would out work an 8820. Take one look at the cab of the 1680 vs the 8820 and tell me which one you want to spend all day in. Have you ever seen a 00 or 20 series with a clean cab? No because the tailing's return is constantly spewing dust into the cab around your feet. And on the 1680 the engine is back behind the grain tank not raring beside you. Jon |
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| In 100 bu corn a 1680 with a 8 row head will be able to go faster than you can keep it on the row, it will be able to go at least 8 mph in that scenario. It should easily do 2000 bu/hr.
If you would run both it would answer the reason that an 8820 is cheaper. There is a reason that JD moved the engine to the rear on the 9600. The 1680 already has it back there.
Here is a website that lists all of the changes that have occurred to the CIH combines over the years.
http://www.toytractorshow.com/caseinternational_axial-flow_combines... |
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Macon, IL | >>What you save on initial purchase you will spend on repairs in the first season. <<
I think that would depend greatly on the maintence of previous owner. I would take a well maintanined 8820 over a neglected anything.
I would avoid consignment auctions for combines. I like to go to retirement auctions where I can see the rest of the equipment, see if it was well maintained, shed/shop, etc. When you are talking any older combine it is all about the TLC.
Nice to have the option for IH or Deere. Being color blind you can go to auctions and try to find a good combine of either color and have a lot more options.
If you go green there are a lot more 7720's out there than 8820s, and may have not seen as many acres in the same hours. I think you were talking about 100bu corn? 7720 will handle 8 row head in 100bu corn fine. Last year I saw a really really clean 9600 sell for $33,000. I have seen junk worn out ones sell for $40k+. At least around here 9500's seem to bring more than 9600's for a similar reason.
Find your box before you buy heads-goodheads for either are easier to find than a good older combine-and if you have to go to a dealer they won't be able to take you as much on markup as on the box.
Just try to find something that is going to let you avoid the major repairs early. i.e. don't buy something with a weak hydro or something like that.
If you go IH route definately go the cummins route-seems there are a lot of IH's in the graveyard that were good machines that went because of engine.
I like your start samm approach, rather than go full bore can you just get a combine and truck and try harvesting a couple hundred acres 1 year and have your custom guys do the rest. If it doesn't work out sell the stuff and walk away-probably won't lose much if anything. If it works out then add the cart, bagger, etc.
Edited by pbutler 7/27/2009 08:57
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Central PA | I'll add a second one.
Hoober Axial Flow history
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St. Gregor, SK, Canada | Have you thought about an 860?
A good one can be had for $15,000 to $20,000.
A late model one will keep up to, or pass any 8820 out there, and you'll have less repairs.
I've combined next to my neighbor's 8820s, we can actually run circles around it in 40bu canola crops, or 100bu oats. |
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| I don't know anything about them. Do they have a rotor? Is Massey still in business or is it some other brand that owns them now to get parts? Thanks. |
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St. Gregor, SK, Canada | dpilot83 - 7/27/2009 07:54
I don't know anything about them. Do they have a rotor? Is Massey still in business or is it some other brand that owns them now to get parts? Thanks.
Massey Ferguson 860s are conventional combines. They were the king in their times, owned by many a custom harvester.
Massey Ferguson is the largest tractor manufacturer world-wide... It is a brand of AGCO corporation, based out of Duleth Ga.
Combines are built in the plant @ Hesston, Ks now. |
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| If you have to do repairs on a 20 series JD, then do them on a 14 or 16 series IH, it won't take you very long at all to pick a machine. Many fewer drives and belts and chains and gearboxes on the IH. Capacity will be about the same. |
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St. Gregor, SK, Canada | This is what an 860 looks like
![[image]](http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1419/dsc00790pl7.jpg)
![[image]](http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3146/dsc00793ex1.jpg)
![[image]](http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8942/dsc00792nj5.jpg)
Edited by christianh 7/27/2009 10:15
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N IL | Capacity is NOT the same in those combines!!!!!!!!!!
The local Case IH dealer brought out a 1680 when they were new because he said it "would do more than our 8820"
Well, long story short the 8820 ate it alive in soybeans. |
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St. Gregor, SK, Canada | Let me guess, green stemmed beans?
Rotaries have a severe dis-advantage in green, or tough straw. It's the reason an 860 (conventional) outruns a 2388/2588 in flax. |
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| It won't have much straw in the wheat because of the stripper header we would be running. 2000 bu per hour sounds like a good match for the supporting equipment we would have in corn if that's what a 1680 will do. What will the 860 do in corn? |
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| That looks pretty nice. The price tag looks appealing as does the capacity. I must confess I'm a little nervous about owning something that runs under the AGCO brand. I feel like there is not quite the dealer support or the neighborly advice that I could work with on that type of a combine in this area. Our Case dealer is pretty decent and our Deere dealer is excellent but I don't have a lot of experience with our AGCO dealer. |
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| I wouldn't have a problem running a combine that AGCO built.
However I would have a problem running a combine that was built by a company before it got bought by AGCO.
The only thing those old Massey's have in common with the new ones is the name and paint color. That's it!
We had a 750 Massey, I'd rather have a 4000 hr 1680 than a 1000 hr 860. The capacity of the 750 was great WHEN it was running, and when wasn't very often.
I don't know a lot about Deere combines but a 1680 is pretty much the same machine as a 2588 except the newer one has a lot of little things that add up to make it a lot more productive.
A 1680 is very upgradeable in that most of the things that were different on the 2588 can be done to a 1680 to gain capacity. |
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St. Gregor, SK, Canada | I don't get it... a few people like yourself keep saying the 700s/800s keep breaking down in the USA. They ran like heck on the harvest run...
Must be something to do with all the Massey haters. I can't figure that one out (Not calling you a hater, just saying in general)
Up here, these combines are tough, reliable, heck, the biggest breakdown we've had was a bearing on an idler pulley in what will be it's 16th year on the farm this year. |
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Nwmo | An 8820 is a nightmare to work on because everything is bunched up so tight and close together on it. I really can't see a 1680 out performing it in corn or beans however. Dads 7720 Titan II had a near perfect grain sample, the one poster said you would be docked if you went with a Deere. That hasn't been my experience with the older 00 or 20 series. Now a 9000 is a different story, my 9600 puts lots of trash in the grain but I have never been docked for it anywhere I go.
Devin |
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Amherst WI | That's because they probably didn't know how to set it. Set the rotor tight and it will gring though anything. |
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sw corner ia. | 9500sh and I have no problem getting a clean sample...
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| I had a '76 Massey 750 and I have to agree with you 100%. It was 5 years old when I bought it from a 800 acre farmer. It was in good shape, but it seems I was always working on something. Maybe the newer ones were better. |
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| 1680 wasn't set up right. There's been days I've been combining across the fence from a 9600 with a 1480 and I'll match him load for load. |
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| I've had 3 of the 20 series Deeres, 6620, 7720, 7720TII and have spent very little on repairs and almost no downtime. Not disputing that the 1680 isn't a good combine either
Edited by mac4440 7/27/2009 13:29
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Anamoose, ND | Would someone please post a pic of a Massey cutting its way down the field with the trail of smoke following right behind it so this guy doesn't make the mistake of buying one! |
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La Glace Alberta Canada | We always had massey combines until the dealer was unreliablr so we switched to JD. I the MF dealer was better I would run MF. We had little to no trouble with them. It is all in the maintenance, keep on top of it. |
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south central kansas | got 3 8820s love them cut wheat,milo,corn and beans. Never got docked for trashy sample. That being said neighbor and freind has a 1680 and has very good wheat sample also. Dont know about other crops as he only has wheat. I gurantee you we both work on them about the same and its expensive eather way.
Have a nother freind with 860 massey I wont even go there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Upper Midwest | Every red guy I've ever met makes the same excuse about setup.
The first load of beans I took to town from my 8820 was so clean that the elevator manager asked me what brand of ROTARY I had bought.
I was nice to him, but the neighbors about laughed him out of town.
Both combines are OK, but in wet soybeans, or tough straw there is NO setup on a 1680 that'll touch an 8820.
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| Dealer support is important. It's rare when I can't have a part for my Deere equipment by the next day, but I'm lucky if I can get a fuel filter from my C-IH in 2 days. Which every way you go, make sure your local dealer is as good as the machine. |
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Rivers, MB | Don't know anything about the CIH so won't comment.
Have had 7720's. Have run 8820's. Really liked them. VERY reliable. Maybe harder to work on then a CIH. That I can't comment on.
Regarding the Massey 750/850/760/860. With all respect to christianh, I would say, DON'T EVEN CONSIDER IT. You may find a good one. He maybe has a good one but that is extremely rare. But there's a reason why there's almost none of them around anymore. In our area, we used to have almost all Massey's. Now, its all JD and CIH. There's still lots of 7720's and 8820's running but no Massey's. Friend had one. No end to grief. Especially with the ones that had a paddle belt instead of feederhouse chain.
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St. Gregor, SK, Canada | That is a very stupid mis-conception.
When an 860 is properly setup, it will NOT smoke like the dickens when it's working hard. It just won't.
Brad Heil runs an 860 in Corn/wheat/soybeans. He's a custom cutter, has two 860s and one 8780xp if I recall.
The 860's limiting factor in corn is the clean grain returns, and I believe that'll handle 2Kbu/hr. In small-seeded crops, I have no problem pushing 1Kbu/hr in flax, 600 in wheat, putting 3' straw thru the straight-cut header, and chopping what comes out the back - in oats, we have hit 1Kbu/hr, but that one depends on how dry the crop is.
I averaged 650/hr in canola.
This is the 860 thrashing canola. Dad's in the driver's seat, and he was going a tad bit slow (should be going about 3.5 - 4mph; these are 25' swaths of 38bu canola). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRB1oFhhfc&feature=channel_page |
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Kansas | If you also recall brad hasn't bragged on those masseys once. NOt even the newer one.
I'm suprised to hear of the luck you have with yours. The populus that ran those machines never did argue that they were not a good harvester..........just the fact that you never could go a full day harvesting without the service truck near by was the issue.
I've seen a pot full more of them smoke then not from when they first came out to the few still running today. If all it took was being set up right.....why the hell didn't they do it from the factory?
Our 750 was 12 years old. I cannot remember the hours but it was not steep. I pulled the injectors and took them to school to clean and adjust. I wish I could find that paper that told how out of whack they were. None of them were remotely close to the same pop off pressure. After I redid them dad said that engine had more power than when it was new.
I'd like to killed the idiot that put that square shaft through the stone trap door under the feederhouse....I think that was what that door was......been a long time since we had them around now.
Fought breaking power steering lines on the 750 for years.
A guy should of made a list. I cannot even begin to recall all the work we did to the 750 and 860 over the years but I dang sure remember it enough to realize they were a honking big red and gray boat anchor and I was never happier to see the day when the last one left the driveway.
Dad didn't know what to think when he got in the 2388 and could cut days on end without stopping to fix something.
I'm glad you have luck with yours because I would never wish the hell ours caused us on any good soul. |
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Byron IL | I have a 1680 with a Cummins that I'm thinking about trading. If you want to contact me I'm at 815-509-7477. Terry |
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Sunburst Montana | They are a heck of a lot cheaper down here. Highest I've seen an 800 series Massey sell is $7,500. I've seen late model JD 7700s bring as much as an 850. I have a neighbor who just parked his 760 for a 7720 and he couldn't be happier. He had the 760 advertised for over a year for $3,500 but nobody bought it. This used to be Massey country too but now very few of them are left with a lot of JD 20 series and CIH 14 series still going. Seems like the only guys running them now have 2 more parked out back for parts. |
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Nwmo | That is a very clean sample maybe a 9500 is different than a 9600. I have never gotten a sample that clean. Then again if I have a sample like that I'm doing something wrong, reduced capacity and I'm not selling the elevator there 5%.
Devin |
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Hoisington, KS | Went to a combine demolition derby last week locally and there were 10 combines entered and 5 were MF 750's, 760's. and 1 860. I thought that says a lot about the Massey's of that era. The JD's, Gleaners and whatever else from that era are still out cutting wheat or are worth too much to tear up in a demo derby. The 860 of course won, but there wasn't much competition pushing around a JD 95. |
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St. Gregor, SK, Canada | In that day and age, there were 5 Masseys in the field for every 1 other combine... Not to mention, there's MANY of them out there with over 8,000 hours on them. Those are junked.
There's a salvage yard here that has 25 860s. Not one has less than 7K hrs on it, and not one of them was burnt unlike, ahem... some of the competition ;) |
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sw corner ia. | I had a 6620 before and it never would give a decent sample in beans. Maybe I am just lucky. anyhow when anyone starts in on how much better quality the beans would be if I would use a rotary machine I show them this and the conversation always goes somewhere else.
St john old style concave set really close, chrome bars, no fillers, precleaner open same width as chaffer which is just enough to get beans to fall through. I tried with the pre closed but I didn't get along with it like that for some reason.
One of my landlords lives near smithville lake and I may have driven close by your place a time or two as I cut across from the luvs in south st. joe on I29. Small world. |
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| What ever you do don't even consider a Massey we used to run two of them a 1985 model and a 87 model the 87 was one of the very last ones and yes it did have some improvements over the earlier one but still it would never fail the hottest nicest thrashing day there was they would both be sitting there with some sort of a problem we used to put them through the shop every year before harvest and still there would always be something bearings, heating problems, chains you name it we used to sink a pile of money into them every year and they would always let us down. These machines were v8 hydro's not sure what the 6 standards were like but I know there is not one 860 with a v 8 in it that didn't smoke they all do the tractors with that engine in them do to I see them sell at sales for pretty much scrap value no way id be paying 15000 to 20000.
Bought a Jd 9600 6 crops ago and this year a 9750STS as a second combine maybe after this fall with the rotary I will change my opinion but something tells me not |
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West Union, IOWA FLOLO Farm 52175 | he seemed pretty happy when we stopped by, the biggest complaint I heard was about the Cummins Motor
Trust me, I thought seeing a Massey in the 9000hr+ range would be an achivement....but the old girls cutting wheat day in and day out.
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N IL | Grind through anything? Hardly. I've combined some really green stems with our STS and it always goes through. At times the straw coming out of the back is grass green!   
Just a second....... Ok it's up now. EDIT: Ok I give up just click on the link! Photobucket is not resizing it!
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x243/delhotalfarms/deerecombines...
Edited by FactoryFarmer 7/27/2009 22:33
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S.E. South Dakota | Not bashing MF but they were a better small grain machine the corn or soybeans.I have no idea were you would get parts for a MF around here. |
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Winkler, Manitoba Canada | Christian H. The numbers you have listed for canola work out to 460 bushels/hour. (25' at 4 mph and 38 bushels/acre) I used to run a 1979 750 (gray cab) with a 372 Perkins and standard transmission. You basically just ran at power limit all day long. It was fairly reliable but some repair jobs certainly required a lot of flexibility. Replacing the rear beater bearing on the drive side is one that stands out. Parts availability was an issue for awhile after the demise of Massey Combine Corp. Certain parts were simply not available. Cropping changes prompted a machine change. Since then I have run New Holland TR's. |
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Las Vegas | I would recommend the 8820. Never had a dirty cab, engine was not a noise problem, and running near neighbors 1680 was proof enough for me. And besides............it's a John Deere. The name says it all. |
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southeast Washington | Massey 7 and 800 series combines were good machines that will do a good job in ANY crop. The heavy cylinder,presision concaves,paddel feed house,return cylinder,wider walkers ,three sieves all things that made them ahead of there time.When I was a young machanic at a MF dealer we would take out a 760 and there was nothing that could touch it.Then came the 8820 and the n7 IH 1480 and then and only then did massey have some compation.Guys would come in and say I want to try a MASSEY combine i heard they are the best.Massey was going to come out with a 70 inch wide machine and that is where they made there mistake.They had the biggest combine and did not go rotory or bigger conventinal.To day I spent another day on my Massey 8780xp ,it is a very good machine.In the old days I ran 760 and 750 along with 6602 JD and also IH combines the Masseys always stayed in the field and for less money than the other red or the green.Its late i tired I am not checking spelling |
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| Well, I've gotten lots of good advice. I guess I'm not too afraid of working on stuff but the Massey sounds like a bit of a challenge to me, mostly because I'm concerned about area dealers. I will probably have more questions about headers and other things before I make any serious decisions. From what I've read I would lean towards the 1680 because it sounds like it's easier to work on. Buying a combine that old, I would expect to work on it a lot. If I were to find an 8820 that looked like it came from a owner who really took care of it for a reasonable price, I might consider it too though. |
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| Terry, I appreciate you letting me know. From your phone number I'm thinking you're about a 15 to 20 hour drive east of me. For now I think I'll probably just look at some that I can find in the local area to see what I can learn about them. |
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Kansas | That still doesn't tell the story about how many times it was broke down when it should of been cutting wheat.
I don't care what anyone writes and I don't care how much B.S. is spread backing these red boat anchors. We owned two of them and the neighborhood was full of them and all they were at the time was job security for the 2 massey dealers in the area.
Its damn funny that since that time frame everyone has went to deere, gleaner, or caseih since.
I'm glad everyone else that has one thinks they were so fabulous. I wish I'd known sooner so we could of loaded that 750 onto someone else for more than 3500 bucks.
Damn P.O.S's |
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| Someone hasn't quite let go of the past Just giving you a hard time Rich. Sometimes you find that certain something that really rubs you the wrong way. I think I'll avoid the Massey if we get a combine. Sounds like more people have had a hard time with them than those who have had good luck with them.
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Kansas | Actually you are right. The new masseys are no comparison to the days of the 860 through 750 but I am pretty much talking only these models since that is what the topic seemed to be centered around.
I do recall BEH making a comment on here that was not bragging in the least on that xp of his.
Come to think of it, I have never heard much bragging on the newer masseys at all from anyone.
to each thier own, but I am going to type something when someone comes on and starts bragging an 860 through 750 saying what a wonderful machine they are and don't break down anymore than others. hogwash. Been there, done that, have the stress marks for it, then when there are the same echo's of my rehetoric on the subject lines and lines down the page..........
They do make hellacious derby combines though. LOL |
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8820 Titan II JD vs 1680 Case IH combine
