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South Central Illinois | Here in Southern Illinois,
We need something to get the corn off to a fast start under stressful conditions.
Too wet, too dry, too cold.
What works?
How is the best way to place the fertilizer? |
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NW, Pennsylvania | We use triple 19 in Nw Pa, but I think most ppl use 10-34-0 (I think that’s the fertilizer). We band grainular. |
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South Central Illinois | What system do you use to place it in the seed zone?
Thinking I want to place it near the seed.
Do I want more than a pop up rate? |
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NE Iowa | I would love to have the ability to apply dry fertilizer with the planter because dry is the cheapest. But not many planters are set up that way anymore and converting one to do so is costly. So in my opinion applying 5 gallon per acre of 10-34-0 right in the seed furrow is the next best thing. Basically any planter can be converted to do this relatively easily and you can do it yourself with a homemade system reasonably cost wise. You just need a tank, electric 12V pump, sprayer nozzle bodies with orifice discs, and tubing. Five gallons of 10-34-0 is safe on the seed unless planting into really sandy soil that is bone dry. |
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Auxvasse, MO | I use a Aulari air cart to put dry down at planting , and to side dress urea later my first year with it works great. |
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ncia | I put 5 gallons 10-34-0 in the furrow. Use a ground drive piston pump, which is very very accurate. Im not sure it helps the end yield, but early growth of corn is noticeably better. Especially if you leave a check strip. The guy that does my fertilizer rec's , cut back my dry phosphorus to account for the liquid . (I think about 20-24 #/acre) |
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South Central Illinois | We were very dry this spring for 5-6 weeks after corn planting.
With our high sodium soils the corn needed something to promote root growth.
The sodium and lack of water were an issue.
Not sure at what point the fertilizer is helpful or detrimental to root growth.
I guess the idea is to get the root growth established before the dry conditions and sodium, restrict root growth. |
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Northeastern Pa. | Small timer here but I like doing side by side testing. I've found again this year that 12 Gal. of 28% 2" to the side with a Great Plains coulter on the planter has given us the beat results. Corn greens up fast and gets the corn off to a quick start. This has been on variable soil types from sand to shale. It saves me big money on not needing a starter or pop up. I do spread dry fertilizer to keep soil nutrients where they belong. We also put 25 gal on as our chem. carrier and then dribble another 25 gal from 10" corn up . What works for me may not work for you. A lot of variables. |
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South Central South Dakota | I pulled a montage behind a mounted planter and used dawn cfx openers it worked very well.
Tractor was overkill but it worked when I was doing it.
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Nebraska, The land of corn and cattle | This was our first year of in furrow with 10-34-0, we put down 5 gal with Schafferts and their Y splitter, we also put down 5 gal of 32% behind the closing wheels with a dribble tube. Both worked well in corn but we found that in our clay were going to have to run something out when doing beans or it will plug the nozzles on the Schafferts, whether that is straight water or some kind of bean starter remains to be seen. I used 12v pumps and Ag Spray controllers to drive them, I carry 300 gal of each in saddle tanks on the tractor. As far as the starter slowing me down planting, its not a big deal IMO, I can fill both tanks in under 10 minutes using a 2" banjo pump for each product. When I have the tender in corn, I can load fertilizer, then turn around and load 12 boxes of corn in under 20 minutes without hurrying.
Our other planter uses a 2x2 system, we have the Sunco Nutrimates, they worked well and did exactly what they are supposed to do. My only complaint was that I thought they used too much downpressure and made the row unit ride a little rougher. If we had some mellower soils I might have put a set on the new planter, I dont hate them, just didnt like them enough to buy another set of them. Plus I wanted floating row cleaners, which they make but didnt want to lay out that kind of cash for the Nutrifloaters. I think next season this planter will be converted to the in furrow/dribble tube setup as well. We were putting down all of our P needs with this system in a 10-34-0 and 32% mix, usually at 15gal/acre
We ran both this year and cant tell a difference between them, though neither are techically side by side with the same hybrid, plus we had as close to a perfect season as well ever have as far as weather. I dont think a guy couldve gone wrong this year. I will say that I think the in furrow stuff gets going a little quicker than the 2x2, just because the fertilizer is right there when it needs it instead of having to grow to reach it.
Going forward we will have to spread some 11-52-0 to keep our P levels up, but unless the price gets way out of wack, we should still be cheaper this way than using liquid P.
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New castle PA | I run MAP 2x2 and spread the rest. Junk ground, seems to work. |
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SW Ontario | After spreading our dry for 6 years we went back to 2x2 applied with salvors air cart. We struggled getting our corn off to a good start so that is why we went back. Had our best looking crop we’ve ever had very happy we went back. Applying 325 lbs product to the acre. Spread K in the fall everything else except sidedress N goes in the band.
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Donnellson, IA. Makes saying here easier. | We run totally tubular on our 1770nt and have liked the response. We use a controller to run our rates but planting is fairly consistent speed so not a critical point if budget building. We run 10-34-0 with 1-2qt of Zinc. That seems to be our best response. We actually added it to run generic capture through a dosotron on our non-gmo acres but found we get a nice start on all acres. We also struggle with early season stress many times dry weather and the extra rooting really can shine in our clay soils. This year we play in some biologicals and ran some small amounts of KTS on some acres too. Be interesting to see results of any when the combine rolls again. First year trying any but we did run some in furrow on soybeans also. Another first we ran flow sense this season instead of flow balls to monitor each row through precision monitor. Not a huge concern on the fertilizer but a worry with insecticides. Accounting for the P makes it a small yield bump to return investment. Otherwise if you don't I guess it's a small build program.
Edited by DobsonAG 10/11/2018 11:03
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Mid-Michigan | I like liquid 2x2. |
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CIL | I like being able to run 10 gal of 28 2x2. We run more N than you can infurrow since we sidedress the majority of our N with nh3. Doing spring nh3, I could see infurrow being enough, but normally the low salt N for infurrow is more $.
We also run a quart of zinc per acre. I'd like to play around with sulfur too. We're also in an area with enough of a nasty past history with rootworm to not rely on capture for control, so we run dry insecticide. If you can get by with generic capture infurrow, then infurrow becomes much more attractive for your N. Less maintenance than 2x2.
Edited by WTF2014 10/11/2018 16:02
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SESD | .. |
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NW, Pennsylvania | I use Yetter Fertilizer coulters 2" x 2" from the seed furrow. I would not up the population rate. Doing that may hinder yield. As long as your coulters are 2" x 2" the seed should be fine. What hurts the seed is the nitrogen in the fertilizer. If you are that worried about the seed quality you could also use a fertilizer with lower amounts of nitrogen (i.e. MAP). |
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Watsontown, Pa. | 5 gal of Helena hyperlink. Think the analysis is 8 24 4 with zinc put through totally tubular in furrow. The. 15 gal of 26 0 0 5s with boron 2x2 |
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NW, Pennsylvania | Do you experience any seed damage from adding 325#/ ac 2x2 at planting? Do you use MAP at planting? Do you conventional-till? Corn looks really nice BTW |
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Franklin NE | Pictures of dry row units please. Looks interesting. |
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SW Ontario | We did not. I was concerned especially when going around curves the openers get closer to the row. We are only running 50 lbs urea and no potash so it is not very hot. Rest is AMS, manganese, MAP, and kmag and micros procoated on. Attached is broadcast plot vs 2x2 same rates of fertilizer applied. Full disclosure the broadcast was planted 3 days earlier. We are not comparing the yield between the two was not the goal broadcast was for a multi hybrid plot. Just interesting to see the visual difference varieties are the same.
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| KTS in the pop-up is a big no-no. Too risky. No amount is safe. |
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| JnDrGrn - 10/11/2018 19:25
5 gal of Helena hyperlink. Think the analysis is 8 24 4 with zinc put through totally tubular in furrow. The. 15 gal of 26 0 0 5s with boron 2x2
For you guys using TT guards to apply pop-up, just an fyi that you can do the exact same thing with our (Exapta's) Valion chrome-alloy guards, which will last 2 - 3x longer than the TTs (which are OEM guards with tubes welded on). |
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| Here are my observations (as well as some other agronomists' and scientists' who reviewed early drafts of this newsletter):
https://www.exapta.com/side-band-fertilizer-openers/
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NW, Pennsylvania | Which is broadcast and which is banded? The right looks banded because of the strip along the row. If thats the case the root system may not have been developed enough to reach the band or something similar.
Have you tried splitting up applications between banding and broadcasting? Can you broadcast in a sprayer with a burn down application? |
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Donnellson, IA. Makes saying here easier. | Didn't hurt anything on the 15acres it was on. We were about as dry as it gets. I'm only talking enough for about .75-1 unit of S. Really only did it to try and make a side by side a little more fair on some expensive low salt starter compared to 10-34-0 zinc standard here product. 2018 definitely are best final populations we've had. Not going to be a normal go to practice. Mine goes on 2" on each side behind disc closers on planter so basically surface with 30-60 units of N. Plus another 10 units down 4-6" with the dry fertilizer on the strip till bar. And a little with a ydrop pass later. I know you don't agree with the deep band either but with the yields we have pushed to since going that route we can't afford not to unless we own the ground and it has great fertility. Rented acres I like banding. Although we band all our own even pit manure with very good results. And we already have great P levels....just not very deep. We cant get that .75" movement downward a year on any soil tests I've pulled at multiple levels. I did enjoy your article and what you accomplish with products and extreme dedication to not till. We just couldn't reach the numbers we do with strip till with our no till. Have a great evening.
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SW Ontario | The left is banded right is broadcast. Exact same amount of nutrients applied a couple days apart. |
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| DobsonAG - 10/12/2018 17:22
Didn't hurt anything on the 15acres it was on. We were about as dry as it gets. I'm only talking enough for about .75-1 unit of S. Really only did it to try and make a side by side a little more fair on some expensive low salt starter compared to 10-34-0 zinc standard here product. 2018 definitely are best final populations we've had. Not going to be a normal go to practice. Mine goes on 2" on each side behind disc closers on planter so basically surface with 30-60 units of N. Plus another 10 units down 4-6" with the dry fertilizer on the strip till bar. And a little with a ydrop pass later. I know you don't agree with the deep band either but with the yields we have pushed to since going that route we can't afford not to unless we own the ground and it has great fertility. Rented acres I like banding. Although we band all our own even pit manure with very good results. And we already have great P levels....just not very deep. We cant get that .75" movement downward a year on any soil tests I've pulled at multiple levels. I did enjoy your article and what you accomplish with products and extreme dedication to not till. We just couldn't reach the numbers we do with strip till with our no till. Have a great evening.
That 3/4" of P movement downward per yr comes from Lincoln NE on good soil with moderate pH under long-term NT with diverse rotation. Is your pH quite high?
I would be surprised if deep P placement conferred any yield benefit in your location. I will dig up the article discussing that. It's possible that what you're seeing is from mineralization of other nutrients (S, Cu, etc) from the extra soil disturbance of the banding. It's also possible there's an alteration of planter performance, especially with the strip-till. I.e., it's a challenge to get planters to perform as well in true no-till as they do in tilled soil such as on top of strip-till zones. |
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| Here's that article:
http://agronomypro.com/Nutrient-Stratification-No-till-Soils.pdf |
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| Also ran across this just now:
https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/articles/5364-under-the-microscope-nut... |
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| And this:
https://umanitoba.ca/faculties/afs/agronomists_conf/media/Fernandez_...
Note that some if not all of the apparent advantages to tillage in these studies can be overcome with judicious use of cover crops where appropriate, better planter setup for true NT, and more attention to secondary and micronutrients such as S, Zn, Cu, etc. |
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Donnellson, IA. Makes saying here easier. | Nailed it. Too many years people must of had a much better lime salesman than a fertilizer dealer. So many fields have higher pH than needed. Especially along field edges where limestone gravel roads do the liming. So P application can be tied up. The bigger issues I dont have time to write all about today. But too much of the benefits of a notill system depend on one thing. Long term.....and maybe your region is much better than ours on knowing you are locked in long term but land is traded here worse than ever before. I like modern deep placement with RTK guidance. If I only get it 3 years I'm placing my fertility and in same band every year. If I get it longer great I'll have decent numbers very close to the highest density of roots. Especially when some soills are single digit p1 and double digit K. I can't afford to donate the whole profile fertilizer for a few seasons. Plants may have survived millions of years with stratified soils but I bet some years they would have barely gotten by and not reached top potential. With high cash rent and lower commodity prices, I like to place as much groceries as close as possible. Another thing that old study's often never mention is soil particle stratification and them returning to where they like to be based on particle size. Here in the land of miss assumed 5ft prairie soils cause it says Iowa. It amazes me that in one season a farmer can run a ripper 12-14" deep in a soil with 4-6" if decent top soil, a couple inches of transition, and then clay you can make pots out of below that. All mixed together in the fall, worked once maybe twice with full scale tillage in the spring and planted. Then when you soil sample for them that next fall if you grab a 12" core its 4-6" of dark good particle soil fb 2" of a grey maybe okay density and size then orange small particle soil at the base of core. So naturally they didn't break the stratification as the soil naturally returns to its original position and the nutrients associated with them stay and create the same results on soil tests. Even in uniform soil the same will happen. Much move life and activity on the surface and more pore space and particle size where more oxygen is present. I do love the articles in notill farmer and actually receive the magazine. Notill farm for many years. But all current expansion is rented and short leases and since switching to both plant and tissue sampling we are strip till even on soybeans to maintain late season K numbers. Our Ca and Mg numbers don't allow near the build I'd like to have. Our planter is able to notill and we still do some especially on soybeans planting into rye on bands from corn that a heavy shot was placed the year before. We like that on some rolling ground and plant into rye cover green. About 70% of our acres have cover crops. Mix depends on time of year. Behind wheat etc. Thanks for the posts I enjoy seeing different angles. I'm only operating on the results we are seeing and this year they are better than ever especially where it rained.
Edited by DobsonAG 10/13/2018 13:15
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Planter applied fertilizer, what and how?
