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East central Iowa | I'm working on a 3 way switch in a stairway. The house is old. Knob a tube wiring. The 3 way switch went bad at the bottom of the stair and I bought a new 3 way switch. I found the hot wire and placed it on the single black screw. I placed the other 2 wires, one on each side on the brass screws. When I flip the switch the light comes on. If I go to the top of the stairs and push the old switch button the light goes off. Push the button again and the light comes on. HOWEVER if the bottom switch is off the top switch does nothing. The only time the top switch works is if the bottom switch is on. The bottom switch has power running to the single black screw. I can't figure this out. I don't if this is the right place to post, maybe machinery would have been better but there are a lot of smart and talented people here so I'm giving this first chance.
Edited by Chris 4/11/2016 12:07
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| My guess is your hot wire will switch depending on the top switch. If it does put whatever wire does not get hot on the black screw.
Hope this helps
Mark |
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Waldron, MI | For a 3 way switch you will have 3 wires, as it appears you do. 2 wires will go directly to the other switch and the other wire is either the hot wire from the fuse panel, or the hot wire going to the light. It sounds to me like the top switch is actually the one being fed from the panel and then feeding to the lower switch, then to the light. I think the wire you found to be hot is coming from the top switch. Mark that one then flip the top switch and see if a different wire isthe hot one. If so then the third wire, which goes to the light, is the one that needs to be on the black screw. I'm not an expert so I could be wrong. Here's a wire diagram that might help. Good Luck
Edited by bakerna4 4/11/2016 12:19
 (3-way-swtich-light-between2.gif)
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 3-way-swtich-light-between2.gif (92KB - 121 downloads)
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southern MN | I'm not going to have a solution, but I understand your problem.
I too have those old black push button switches from 80 years ago.
The three way was 'different' than the modern ones.
When I had my farm rewired, the experienced and apprentice electricians put a new breaker box in in place of my old fuses.
That night I noticed my hallway lights glowing very dimly on those 3 way push button switches. Turn the light on and it would be on, turn the light off and it would glow a bit. Different combinations of the switches did different things, I believe one specific combination the lights were off, but most combinations they glowed very dully and one way they were on out of the many combinations.
I turned the breaker off and the next day mentioned it to the electricians.
The young apprentice looked at me like I was nuts, well how can that be.
The experienced electrician said 'ah' looked at the switch and said yup, you have that old style, they are wired different. He went in the breaker box and did something different with the wires and everything has worked fine for over a decade.
But - I can't tell you what is different, or what he did. Or if the old type of switch is compatable with a modern switch. Or anything actually helpful?
I did this google search and there are some videos I can't look at right now on a throttled public Internet connection, don't know if they would help:
"How are old three way pish button light switches wired'
Paul
Edited by paul the original 4/11/2016 12:27
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St. Joseph, Champaign County, IL | Ditto this and what Dickefarms said. You are most likely at the second switch from the panel. The power probably goes to the switch at the top of the stairs first. |
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Chilliwack BC | I know when replacing an old 4 way switch with a new one, you remove the old one, and turn the new one 90 degrees when you connect the wires. The terminals are oriented differently and I would presume that the 3 ways are as well. |
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West Central IL | Did you replace the top switch too. Maybe it's bad. I had a bad one in a stairwell not too long ago. I had the same problem for years. Finally just put both switches in at the same time since I think they were both 1926 originals. |
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Sac & Story county IA | There is an old way of wiring three way switches. It saves one wire between switches. It does require power source at each switch. That way was used a lot on farm yard lights controlled in more than one place. I doubt it makes code anymore. Basically, you don't have 2 travelers on that method. |
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East central Iowa | The kindness and the willingness to help is appreciated. I got it. The old switch on the top is going to be left alone until I have to replace it. I worry about breaking wires and the wall crumbling. But the important thing to me is that it's working and a big thank you to you guys. |
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southern MN | E718 - 4/11/2016 11:57
There is an old way of wiring three way switches. It saves one wire between switches. It does require power source at each switch. That way was used a lot on farm yard lights controlled in more than one place. I doubt it makes code anymore. Basically, you don't have 2 travelers on that method.
We had that too. I think that was a special magnetic switch, and the switch itself needed to be spring loaded, momentary. Two wires from each switch to the magnetic control box, didnt really matter how many switches you had.
It had a bit of complicated box controls to run the magnet, dad got cheap and just used a regular switch when the spring loaded one wore out, 'remember' to flip it back again. You know how that ended.....
Paul |
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| Good news Chris.
Better question is why leave the old knob and tube in ANY segment of the house? You can use your 'spare' time to fish new wires to switches,outlets, and ceiling fixtures. it isnt rocket science and only takes 1 or 2 people to accomplish. You THEN have modern grounded wire everywhere and can sleep much more comfy. PLUS if your insurance gets wind of what you NOW have you wont have insurance long.
Make it look like a pro ran them,,,no wound up crooked ball of kinks. Roll it off the spool over the edge(Make the spool roll),,,not pull it off the side of the roll.
IF you have good wiring skills you can hook up OR hire an electrician to make connections and all pretty. If your service line is new great. If you dont have a modern 200 amp box use old one as a main and new one as a sub box with the idea of upgrading incoming service next. Try to keep the code insectors out of there as much as you can but do everything right and up to new code. Here they would love to condemn whole house for bad wiring and what ever else they can find.
BUT GET RID OF THE KNOB AND TUBE CRAPPY OLD WIRE!!!! |
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Sac & Story county IA | I think they were plain old 3 way switches, SPDT. I don't have it in my head how it works but it switches both neutral and hot at each end. |
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East central Iowa | This is the last of the K&T and I can't wrap my head around replacing it. We have a new 200 Amp service to everything else but the wires in the stairway are heavier and probably better than anything you could buy today. The only downside is lack of wire color which is no big deal when you have testers. |
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3 way switch in an old house, I need help
