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NEIN | Looking at a CAT 259D comparably equipped to a Deere 323E. Price out within a few hundred dollars. Like both but am used to the Deere style but think the CAT torsion suspended undercarriage looks better. Can anyone give me their thoughts on either model? Trying to make a year end decision. They will be used on a brush grapple and for dirt work if that matters. Thanks and Merry Christmas! |
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SE Nebraska, Near Misery and Cans Ass! | On the grapple you will love the suspension. it can make fine grading a little tougher. the trick is to put the main frame down on stops and use the tilt to control depth. Cat is a little better protected in nasty brush work. |
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NEIN | the Deere has ride control too, does that matter? |
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Renville Minnesota | Don't know about Deere, but at 3200 hours were looking at 7 grand in parts for a fairly good rebuild. (One blown hydraulic drive motor is 2800 alone)
Should be good for another 3000 hrs hopefully.... Hopefully.
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| Cat .has better resale than Deere if they have bobcat style suspension high hour asv style suspension machines do not sell well. |
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NW Iowa | Cat will burn less fuel. |
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SE Nebraska, Near Misery and Cans Ass! | Newguy - 12/24/2015 16:49
Don't know about Deere, but at 3200 hours were looking at 7 grand in parts for a fairly good rebuild. (One blown hydraulic drive motor is 2800 alone)
Should be good for another 3000 hrs hopefully.... Hopefully.
That's the old asv suspension, Not a modern one. |
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NE Kansas | My 329D Deere skid loader had a drive motor blow at 800 hours. Sent metal through the whole system. Just got done rebuilding the hydrastat and one drive motor because of wear from the metal. Bought a rebuilt drive motor to replace the one that blew apart.
Deere quoted me $20-25K to fix. Anything hydraulic would've been replaced. |
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central - east central Minnesota - | ac45 - 12/23/2015 18:01 Cat .has better resale than Deere if they have bobcat style suspension high hour asv style suspension machines do not sell well. Must be a local deal . . . . Cat will resale better then Deere around here, anytime. Deere doesn't have a good resale, period. The ASV style tracks are more sought after then the convention "bobcat" style track systems, regardless of hours. The wear is reflected in the selling price. All track systems cost more money for repairs then wheels - obviously. |
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Wi | "Value" opinions are very regional. In my region, a Deere will often be more money upfront with lower resale value than the Cat. In your case the upfront cost is a moot point and the resale may not matter. When I talk resale its machines that are less than 5 years old.
After reading the replies to this thread, its important to note the differences in undercarriages. Cat offers both MTL and CTL undercarriages and has for years. The CTL is the traditional "steel" rigid track system that you will find on most other brands, although cat does mount it with a torsion style suspension. The MTL is commonly referred to as the "ASV" undercarriage as that is where it came from. The design of the MTL provides a very smooth ride and great traction, however the maintenance costs can be higher on it and it is not very well suited for aggressive conditions. The ride and traction of an MTL cannot be beat, however the CTL is much more durable and cheaper to operate in the long run in most cases. You can easily distinguish between the newer MTL and CTL machines by simply looking at the model number. Of course the "2" means its in the SSL/MTL/CTL family, the next number is the size, followed by a descriptor (2=Vertical SSL, 6=Radial SSL, 7=MTL, 9=CTL) and then the series/generation.
259D would be a CTL, the torsion suspension provides a nice ride but some do mention that it can make fine grading require a bit more skill.
I may be partial, but the reasons I would go with the Cat over the Deere comes down to the way they are built. The Cat cab is a sealed single piece module with the HVAC sealed to it as well, meaning you will not have to worry about it degrading over time like a machine with a cab that either splits in the middle and/or has a seperate HVAC system. With the cab up on both machines you will see that Cat has moved everything out of the belly of the machine. All of the valves are mounted behind the cab and hoses are routed up to them, meaning nothing buried in the crap under the cab. The engine compartment is sealed, and the coolers are not stacked or at the rear of the machine. The Kubota motor in the Cat is excellent, but thats not to say the Yanmar in the Deere is bad. There's more, but I could type for awhile without knowing what specific things you may be interested in.
Edited by durallymax 12/23/2015 19:04
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Minnesota | I can't say about Deere, but my Cat 277B is a work horse. Great flotation in snow, mud and dirt. I am at 2350 hours now and will need some pretty substantial undercarriage work soon. Flotation, suspension, ride is very nice on this machine. The CAB is OK, I am sure the new ones are better.
If your getting a grapple for concrete, brush etc... I also recommend the Virnig brand. http://virnigmfg.com/product/skeleton-grapple-attachment/, I have abused mine clearing trees, concrete, etc... and with my 2950# machine, (5800# tipping load, and I have tipped it) I nothing has bent except for a very slight tweak in the right fork as I twisted with that fork only. Stupidity on my part.
The virnig will grab little tree limbs to 3.5 ft tree trunks and hold tight with grip with the saw tooth fork/grapple design.
Good luck |
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Renville Minnesota | Yes. The new one looks much more stout, but maybe not as smooth as the old one.
We have this one and a 246c on wheels.... We have yet to find an application where the track machine doesn't make the wheel one look silly. Including snow removal. |
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Wi | Newguy - 12/23/2015 19:30 Yes. The new one looks much more stout, but maybe not as smooth as the old one. We have this one and a 246c on wheels.... We have yet to find an application where the track machine doesn't make the wheel one look silly. Including snow removal.
Are you confusing the CTL with the MTL? The MTL's are still made, the 277D MTL undercarriage is slightly different, but should be as smooth as what is on your 277C. You may be thinking of the CTL? Which would be a 279. MTL will get excellent traction in snow, CTL not so much.
277C
277D
279D
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Renville Minnesota | Yes, and thanks. I did not know they offered both undercarriages. The ctl looks great for durability and ruggedness...
The MTL is crazy smooth. |
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South East Nebraska | Have a cat 289C and Deere 329D. Both have there place. The Cat has its loader arms out farther than the deere so loading pallets onto a truck or pilling stuff on a pile the cat will reach out farther with that being said the deere arms are closer to the machine which give it a lot more break out force. I have dug out some pretty good size trees with the 329D. The cat cab is quieter and is sealed up better and the serviceability is easier on the cat I feel. The Deere cab is maybe a bit bigger but not much. I am 6'4 and 260 and I feel good in both. The MTL undercarriage which I don't have but have ran is definitely smoother riding than the CTL. Between the two machines you are looking at I would probably lean toward the cat. |
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NEIN | First thank you for the detailed reply. Another question would be what do you think of visibility from the cab? I am used to the deere with low arms . Also do you know anything about the electric foot pedals they are coming with? Deere has had them and I have run their pedals but this CAT will be ordered with them and it will be sight unseen for me on that machine. Cat rep tells me the undercarriage has parts from a D3dozer and I have to admit it looks heavy but the odd part about that is the deere is almost 900 lbs heavier in total weight. Any thoughts on that?Thanks again. |
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South East Nebraska | You are correct the visibility in the deere is better due to the arms being lower. As far as the electronic foot pedals are you referring to ones that will operate functions or just the accelerator pedal. I am not familiar with foot controls as both mine are ER controlled. As far as weight goes my deere is heavier and when it comes to dozing its a brute. Im not familiar with the new D series cats as far as if they changed the booms a little to offer better visibility. Best advice get both machines on your yard and go to town. I had a 329D and a 289C on my yard at the same time and put 13 hrs on the 289 and about 10 on the 329 and bought the deere because it came down to pure dozing power. When I added a second machine I bought a 289 because of all the things I liked about it. Even tho your buying new both should be able to demo you something close. I wouldn't spend that kind of money and not put it to the test first. |
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Wi | My advice on foot controls, learn ISO pattern and skip foot controls.
Deere has been using electric pedals, Cats new electric pedals are electric as well.
Regardless of that, skip it and move into the 19th century.
Visibility all around is similar with both aside from the cat having a big ass. Get the backup camera and the issue is solved. |
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Cat verse Deere skidloader question
