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| I don't get normally get reception from the CBS affiliate but it's come in well the last couple days. So I was watching Letterman, which I normally wouldn't anyway because....... well just because the guy is such a dip$hit. But I digress.
Anyway. Dave was interviewing this actress about the movie, and she was doing fairly well telling how Dr Grandin is autistic and works on designing cattle facilities. Then she mentioned a squeeze chute and Dave got her to elaborate on what a squeeze chute was. The gal goes on to describe it as a "torture chamber" for cows. Stupid people like this are the reason I won't pay to see a movie like this. Anyone else see this Letterman show a couple of nights ago? |
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West Union, Illinois | Here's something interesting. I did a Google search for Claire Danes plays Temple Grandin. One of the hits was this threads. I wish we had HBO, I'd like to see it. I've always kind of liked Claire, and I'm a big fan of Temple Grandin.
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| Mike, I admit I don't keep up on movie stuff and had never heard of Claire Danes before. Her comment certainly did not make a good first impression. In her career, Temple Grandin has used her professional talents and unique perspective to bring about many improvements in livestock handling systems. I'd hate to see her portrayal by some loony actress detract from that.
Edited by John SD 1/22/2010 09:20
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Northeast Iowa | I thought Claire actually didn't sound as out there as you did. Here is the transcript from the discussion where she and Dave talked about Dr. Grandin's autism:
"She also did this incredible thing where, um, a lot of autistic people have sensory problems, and they have a hard time being . . . with human contact. That's kind of stressful, but they need the deep touch. So she noticed when she spent summers at her aunt's ranch that cattle would go into something called a 'squeeze chute' when they would get vaccinated, and it looked like a torture device, but actually it calmed them. So she created her own little squeeze chute for herself and actually a lot of autistic people use it now."
To me, it seemed like Claire gave her first impression of a squeeze chute, but then explained how it actually helped the animals and Temple, so I'm not ready to lump her in with outright opponents of animal agriculture. Let's face it, if you had no farm background and saw a steer put in a squeeze chute, your first impression may match Claire's. At least she had the good sense to learn about it and explain it during her interview.
I've been to a couple of meetings with Dr. Grandin and have always enjoyed hearing her thoughts on animal handling and facility design. She seems really intense, but when we got her to the hotel bar after one meeting in the 1990's, she loosened up a little bit and would joke around somewhat. We're not talking lamp-shade-wearing-life-of-the-party here, but she was more relaxed than what you normally see when she's in front of a meeting. She said she preferred to come to meetings the day of the meeting and go back the same day, because she didn't like hotel rooms. There were too many outside noises and inconsistencies to throw off her normal routine for good sleep. That's when she mentioned how she liked the feeling of being in a squeeze chute and wished she could figure out a way to make a small portable one to take to hotels with her for meetings with overnight stays. Its calming effect was that valuable to her. She didn't think she could talk a bellhop into helping her get a full-sized squeeze chute into her room!
I'm looking forward to seeing the movie. It's on HBO on February 6th, I believe, so there won't be box office numbers to judge its success.
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Fairbury, NE (Southeast) | Thanks for the clarification. The first post completely misconstrued the statement. |
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| Does someone have the direct link to the transcript of the show?
Edited by John SD 1/22/2010 11:12
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Northeast Iowa | I watched it the other night, but I didn't remember things sounding that bad. So I checked it out online and found this link.
http://rapidshare.com/files/338666527/Clare.Danes-David.Letterman.2...
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| I made similar posts on this topic at a couple other sites this morning. I will now post links to this thread at those sites to set the record straight. |
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Devils Lake, ND | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hug_machine |
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| There is a good thread down below. My observation is that cattle work a bit easier through the newer squeeze chutes ... err... hug machines. I think a lot of it has to do with the new hydraulic chutes don't clang and rattle so much. One guy can stand off to the side and run all the chute controls with his hand. Don't have to lean in close with all your weight to close the headgate or squeeze. The vet powers his chute with hydraulics from an idling pickup. Neighbor has one runs off tractor remotes. Cows are used to pickups and tractors which has a calming effect.
Edited by John SD 1/22/2010 12:31
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Kansas | LOL
Cows are used to pickups and tractors and that gives a calming effect?
They see you on a daily basis and bringing them feed and breaking ice. Why don't you calm them?
LOL. That was a proposterous statement John.
Goofy damn paddle rattles is all I keep thinking of whenever I hear that name. I still think she is a joke. |
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| LOL Rich! Perhaps I should have worded that different. Maybe I should have said cows are used to tractors and pickups and have no inherent fear of them. How 'bout that? ;-)
You and I are just gonna hafta agree to disagree on the rattle paddles. They are the tool/weapon of choice for me. I like paddles because they are reasonably durable and a guy can be agressive, or not, with them as needed. The paddle I got now has a crack. Moisture gets in it and sometimes the rattles freeze and don't work. That's a high tech problem I can usually solve by whacking it on the ground a couple times.
Paddles are highly visible and audible to the cattle when needed, more so than a plain whip. Conversely, it can be kept close at side when there is a need to be subtle. Paddles are the only thing that remotely works with sheep, but sheep is probably a whole new topic.
Most popular around here are the flag whips it seems but they are not durable enough to suit me. I like them best on the road for flagging traffic when moving cattle on the road, especially orange or brightly colored ones. |
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Kansas | We ran 250 head of bossies through the chute yesterday in 3 hours.
The only thing wrong with my hot shot, was it needs to be a longer reach. I got it kicked out of my hand twice.
Yea, I know, you and I havn't ever quite been on the same page about Grandin but I keep hoping I can persuade you. ;-)
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North Cental Mo. | As far as Dr. Grandin, I have heard of her, some of the things she has done and I repeat some. I'm guessing she is great for AG image. Does she have anything useful I can take to my farm, I'm guessing very little.
Whips, flags, bb paddles, not much use for them, possible shading of the eyes with the paddles, but I'd rather have a scoop shovel for that. Cattle prods or long hedge sticks are the preferred weapon of choice here, with a little electricity from time to time. Hydraulic, or manual chutes, either one, if that's what your working with, cattle will go through both, and will continue to go through both. Cattle being worked, most generally are not going to be calm when captured, and are not going to get calmer as the day goes on regardless of set ups, or whatever noise they hear or do not hear. This is my .02 for the day.
Roy |
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near Lucan | I don't like the paddle rattles either, but I've had to take Temple pretty serious, makes you look at it from the steers POV. I use a cedar gad, or something smallish, no matter how PO'd I get, I can't hurt them. I hate the whip, myself, depend on the prod to keep the stubborn ones moving. Lots of times we'll hardly use it all. Other times, well.... Of course, if we're processing on arrival, we're hoping to do a potload in a little over an hour and a half, a LOT slower than Rich. Or my neighbor, for that matter. |
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northwest tennessee | I dont like the paddle rattles but the flags are nice when sorting in a barn. You can turn or stop one fast with them. Then can kind of pop the flag if you need them to move. |
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Central Saskatchewan Canada | If Grandin's chute ideas calm the cattle down or make them move through better what's the problem with that?? If you don't like the ideas she has don't use or listen to them. It's pretty easy. |
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Kansas | Its our god given right to critique and yell horse apples when we see it too. |
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Central Saskatchewan Canada | I suppose its our right but is what she says that loonie??? If she can move an animal through a chute easier or quieter is that a problem?? The rattle thing is a little different. I end up breaking them over the animals head. |
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Kansas | If time is of no essence, anyone can move them easier and gentler, thats where the difference arises.
I am not saying that some of her techniques won't work or havn't. I just saying that to get a job done and quickly to move onto other things, well, quiet isn't what I'm to worried about.
Safety of workers and get r done is my main concern. But then again, I'm the grunt in the back pushing up the alley. LOL. Apparently though my mindset must been ok, I didn't have any complaints yesterday. ;-)
I have an autistic son, so to hear her say she likes to be in a squeeze chute, I don't know if that necessarily makes her loony but I do think she likes bondage an that is really TMI to put out to the world to know. LOL |
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Central Saskatchewan Canada | I know I shouldn't laugh but the bondage thing was funny. |
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Kansas | Hee hee.
A lil tongue in cheek movement. |
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North Cental Mo. | Sounds like the voice of experience.
Roy |
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Central Saskatchewan Canada | I can tell you seem to do that alot. LOL |
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Kansas | just what I hear Roy. You know us therapist have to be resilliant to all sorts of information. LOL |
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Kansas | cheaper then therapy,
easier than pills
and a whole lot gentler on the soul. ;-) |
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North Central Kansas | I wonder if Claire took athe dip in the dip tank. I heard once that a feedlot was having trouble with cattle in a dip tank so she jumped in and swam it to figure out the problem. The only way she could learn was to become one with the cattle. That is dedication.
Alot of her designs are geared toward the large feedlot operations, but alot of it comes down to less stress on the animal. Nothing I hate worse than a wild bunch of cattle. I used the rattle paddle and a sorting stick. Hot shot on occasion but not very often. |
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Kansas | Wild cattle are the best for flying through the chutes.
The tame ones are so slow and take forever.
While easier on the grunt in the back (me) pushing them up, if you got a system setup so man handling is at a minimum, Those wild ones make the operation of working them just fly.
Just my opinion though.
Unlike some cattle guys I know, I don't want this project to last all day. Lets get it done so we can do other things. I don't enjoy that much that I want to bask in it till past sundown. |
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Central Saskatchewan Canada | The last trucker here to pick up a load, I told we had a wild one in the group. He said he likes a couple wilds in the load, They unload faster on the other end. I had to laugh. We are breeding for quiet ones and he wants a wild one so they fly off the truck. go figure. |
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| Same here, I try to cull the wild ones out of my own herd and keep the quiet ones. I don't own a hot shot. I work alone most of the time but call in help for bigger projects like branding or fall shots. Don't have to help a cow calf very often but when I do I want a quiet cow I can handle easily by myself. I do have good neighbors I can call on anytime but I hate to bother people if I can get the job done with me, myself, and I.
I trailed 70 pairs in and weaned calves off the cows this fall by myself. Put the bulls in, took the bulls out by myself, ran them down the chute and poured them while I was at it. I couldn't do stuff like that alone with a bunch of wild cattle. I think the majority of my herd being straight Hereford with a few baldies helps with disposition.
I can't remember the exact quote but a guy at another site lives by the motto goes something like "the best way to work cattle fast is to work cattle slow." That's what I try to do. If I got PO'd at the cows and started whoopin' and hollerin' and raising hell it would soon be a wreck. My corrals which aren't the best anymore would be a wreck too. Yes, working alone stuff takes longer than if I had a helper or two. But it doesn't affect what someone else is doing that day. |
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Kansas | You two gotta remember. I'm merely talking as a hired helper for a friend on days we work cattle.
I'm not the one out there during calving season too (well, I will when the phone rings, its just not steady and daily like I used to be).
for your reasonings, both of you are right. No way in hell do you want a wild one out there to tag a baby from. She'll roll you like a rubber ball if someone isn't standing gaurd with a pitchfork.
I mean merely from a working them standpoint. I understand where you two fellas are coming from. You don't have to convince me. Well, at least about the cattle. I still think Grandin is far from the Greatness people claim she is. |
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| Rich, I understand your reasoning and where you're coming from too. "Here" livestock jobs are still mostly a neighbor helps neighbor thing. Nobody gets "hired" as in monetary terms except the vet who comes to the place for preg checking and Bangs vac job.
Vet also brings the nice hydraulic chute along with for a modest fee. Difficult calving cases like C-sections are normally hauled to the vet. Knock on wood, I haven't had a C-section done for years so don't know what one costs nowdays.
All of us regular flunky types are the "will work for food" type helpers. Sometimes we also convoy our stock trailers to the sale barn which includes the concept of "will haul cattle for food and we won't turn down a full tank of gas/diesel either".
The work for food plan is a great deal in itself, because all the ladies in the neighborhood are excellent cooks! Heck, we might even drag the job out on purpose until suppertime just 'cause of that. ;-) |
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Kansas | Your talking to a man that truly appreciates fine cooking.
Nuff said. LOL |
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| That's a big 10-4 there for sure! Yeah, I watched "Convoy" on tv tonight (again!) Time to 10-7 Jimmy Kimmel on tv and hit the sack! 'Night, Rich! |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Here is a link to a number of videos regarding cattle handling from Dr Temple Grandin's website. As a newcomer to cattle, I found them helpful in getting a feel for how cattle behave. After realizing I had made a mistake on an early purchase by buying this one ornery/wild old cow, I saw how she was getting my whole herd wound up and decided to ship her asap. My good neighbor came over and we both tried to force this cow into a trailer by herding her into a corner made by wiring some panels to the trailer in a vee shape. Well this cow decided she was NOT going into the trailer and nearly broke my arm when she pushed one of the panels over on me and headed victoriously for the back forty at a gallop. At that point I decided that I needed a corral/handling facility/loading ramp. The cost was going to probably be less than the doctor bills. I built a corral mostly from used telephone poles and rough sawn oak boards. I did use a solid sheeted For-most tub and alley but I had lots of open pipe gates the cattle could see through. They got riled up by motion outside the corral they could see through the gates. When I controlled the sight lines by wiring up 1/4 plywood (free rejects from a lumber yard) to the insides of the pipe gates they calmed down. When I put dull black rubber belting over my shiny aluminum TruTest scale platform in the alley, they no longer hesitated to step on it.... When I started being aware of my cattles' field of vision and flight zones I found I could get the whole herd in the corral (ahead of a vet visit for example) by myself with minimal stress. Just making yourself seem wide by extending your arms does the job in many situations. Talking to them helps. When I changed from pipe anti-backup gates to solid sliding panel doors (limiting sight lines and visual distractions) between my tub and alley and alley and chute it made a huge difference in keeping cattle calm when working them. I think Temple Grandin's principles are useful for small operations like mine even though they are mostly aimed at the feedlots and commercial size herds. Even to a newcomer to cattle like me, it seems clear she has really done a lot for the cattle industry. Autism or not, the principles she teaches work and make life a lot easier on both the handler and the cattle. Cows may not be real bright but they sure remember things. I read somewhere how mature cows have the intelligence of about a human 3-year old. But even three year old humans remember how they are treated. I would never touch either with an electric prod. Gently handling a cow that you will have around for 10 or 15 years will sure make life easier. I feel it makes good safety and business sense to listen to the principles that Grandin teaches. jmho. Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 1/23/2010 21:01
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North Cental Mo. | Well Jim, I hate to break the news to you, but most if not all the stuff you mentioned were around before Grandin.
How much snow do ya have up there now? We have lost most of ours, we still have frost in the ground but it's a greasy sloppy mess in the pens.
Roy |
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Kansas | Greasy sloppy mess here too and not just the pens. Driveways, draw, bottoms. Frost is coming out now and it's a real thick soup. |
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Driftless SW Wisconsin | Well Roy, one benefit of being new to cattle is that it's all new to me! Regardless of how long the ideas have been around or where they came from, I think they work. I think its good for the cattle business in general to have someone like Grandin showing that there are gentler, humane ways to raise and harvest cattle than some others would have you believe. I'll be in WI with my cattle for a bit tomorrow on my way north and west for a couple shows. What it looks like from here in N IL it will be mostly ice. A fair amount of snow around yet - has not really been much above freezing (until today) but lots of freezing rain on top of old snow. This is another benefit to having them grazing in standing corn - the footing is better than a lot of other places and really not the mud there can be around hay feeders etc. Sometimes frost under a top thaw like you have can be treacherous - no place for the water to go. Personally I'd just as soon have it 10-20 deg F until spring then 60 deg the next day.... I think the cattle would like that too. Jim at Dawn
Edited by Jim 1/23/2010 20:57
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Claire Danes plays Temple Grandin in movie......
