Posted 6/28/2020 08:13 (#8340777 - in reply to #8339376) Subject: RE: How much beef can I make from a round bale?
JD dairyman - 6/27/2020 14:11
What do you think of this study?
(Please disregard if your not really interested in this particular thread! This is NOT about 'easy answers' nor easy 'things to find'!)
It is somewhat interesting.
When I look at, what in this case is claimed to be research information (its rather information culled from research information), I use a system that I found many years ago for learning and understanding things.
The questions go like this (after reading the whole thing) :
1. What are they saying
2. What are they trying to say
3. What are they really saying
It can be interesting in that with careful examination what they're really saying quite contradicts what is being said on the surface.
But to return to your information.
My examination (my notes) :
1. incomplete information - - - even chasing things to back where you got the table from - - - - its still incomplete - - - the web page is a bunch of information thrown together from a number of sources with inadequate referencing (yes there are references but its going to be a bunch of work finding the original paper - - - that is if you can!).
2. information is presented to bolster the sales of a silage inoculant
3. there is no background information - - - - numbers and analyses can be 'manipulated' all too easily - - - - in this case there is a very small increase in value in the silage occasioned by the use of the inoculant
4. there is zero mention that there are things that can be done to that silage stack/pile/bunker/crop (yes even to the crop) that would have the possibility of an even greater improvement in the ending silage quality
5. there is not even subtle emphasis on the increase in $ value of the silage
6. the excerpted table is really incomplete - - - - all that is included is the dry matter digestibility
digestibility is very important - - - - but what is it?
some things are highly digestible and really don't provide much feed 'value' (energy, protein, minerals, vitamins (or their precursors)) so what is the 'value' of what was examined?
7. if you look at the bottom 2 lines there is something that is quite interesting
as the animals are consuming more of the higher digestibility product (actually needs more information to verify that) they are not actually adding to the carcass in equivalent to their increased liveweight
there really isn't enough information but imo these two lines suggest that there is possibly a palatability change here as well
getting this from the slightly larger increase in live weight compared to the carcass weight
to me this suggests greater fill and great likelihood of a serious plateau in all of the intake/LS gain/carcass numbers if the dry matter digestibility were increased further
I have encountered forages testing at digestibility levels of over 90% (yes I know that the book says that's not possible but I didn't do the tests - - - - they were done well over a 1000 miles away from me in a lab) and got visual results and some small amounts of data (really wish I had measured a LOT more things) that suggest that the plateau in digestibility causing intake limitations just might not be there. I know - - - - all the 'experts' are already rising up to cry heresy - - - - but then when have these experts actually done all their testing work hands on themselves. From what I've observed the technicians are given was information is to be collected and the the researcher does their work in an office. I've been finding a few things that are hiding inbetween the commonly accepted 'values'.
All this to say that - - - well - - - I agree that high value forages would be - - - and ARE - - - very useful in growing stockers. I'm not as convinced that using premium value forage exclusively is 'necessary' unless for ideological reasons.
(Likely far too long and far too detailed a note but you indicated that you would not continue in any debate because you thought you were possibly shouldn't be in it - - - - I disagree that you shouldn't. You adding this information got me thinking even more about forages and ruminants - - - - I think far more forages could be used - - - and aren't. Please disregard if not really interested in this particular thread!)