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7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point
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johndeere430u
Posted 5/4/2017 07:44 (#5999681)
Subject: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


Central, mn		So we have had this 7300 planter for a lot of yrs and to this day I'm wondering if we have the lift assist wheels plumbed right. When I kift the planter the lift assist wheels lift first then the 3point and when I lower the 3 point goes down first and lift assists after.

Is there a way to get them to lower and lift t Tether so it stays level? I do have a valve online of the lift assist line but doesant seem to help much.



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Nodak63
Posted 5/4/2017 08:22 (#5999759 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


NE ND		I'll be watching responses, I didn't even know you could get em to work together! I've been hitting the three point while simultaneously lowering the hydraulics for years.
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deeredriver
Posted 5/4/2017 08:48 (#5999814 - in reply to #5999759)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


Alma NE		On a 4760 we had at my old job the line was just teed into the lift assist Ram hose on the right side of 3 point , a short hose and a coupler bolted above the pto.
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oldbones
Posted 5/5/2017 21:11 (#6002823 - in reply to #5999759)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



Floyd County, Iowa
Nodak63 - 5/4/2017 08:22

I'll be watching responses, I didn't even know you could get em to work together! I've been hitting the three point while simultaneously lowering the hydraulics for years.


What tractor?????
Yes, they can be plumbed together, but "how" depends on the tractor. Some are easy, some not so much.
Also, depends on your planter's mounting setup whether you should or shouldn't.
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Nodak63
Posted 5/6/2017 18:19 (#6003977 - in reply to #6002823)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


NE ND		I run a 12 row 22 inch on a JD 8400.
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oldbones
Posted 5/6/2017 20:53 (#6004193 - in reply to #6003977)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



Floyd County, Iowa		There is a port that you can put in a coupler, and then hook your lift assist hose to. Then when you raise or lower the 3 pt, the lift assist raises and lowers with it.
If you have the pivoting mast on your planter, it works great.
That's how I have my 7300 (with lift assist and pivoting mast) operating.
Here's a pic of where that port is.



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Turbo 8820
Posted 5/4/2017 08:42 (#5999801 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


S.E. Washington		On my 7300 I leave the top link in, just with a smaller pin at the planter so it can't get more than a few degrees off level. That forces the three point and lift assist to work together.
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johndeere430u
Posted 5/4/2017 09:06 (#5999852 - in reply to #5999801)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


Central, mn		This planter is 2 point only no top link is used
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Turbo 8820
Posted 5/4/2017 09:30 (#5999887 - in reply to #5999852)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


S.E. Washington		I'd have to go get my operators manual out but I'm pretty sure it has a section on hitching it integral (with top link solid pinned), with quick hitch and top link but no pin between planter an quick hitch, or last no top link at all. Why do you run with no top link and how do you hold it level? Mine rocked forward and backward with no top link as I went through the field and changed my seed depth.
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JDEEREMAN
Posted 5/4/2017 09:30 (#5999888 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


Eastern ND		On mine I just leave the lift assist wheels in the planting position when I turn around. Only lift the 3pt. The closing wheels come off the ground about a foot so no problem there. Only use the lift assist when backing up, or road thavel.
Mine has no top link on the planter, only the 2 lower hooks.
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D6Joe
Posted 5/4/2017 09:41 (#5999909 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


east central ND		I run the solid mast with the 3 rd link hooked up. 7300 on JD 8200 tractor. Lifts and lowers with just the 3 pt control. I run the lift assist cylinder single acting with pressure hose to the 3 pt port under the SCV block , and the other hose from the back of the lift assist cylinder is just used as a vent and goes to the sump port. This works well and the 3 rd link keeps the bar square when planting. You need the rigid mast (on the planter) for the 3 rd link for it too work.

When I had a 4640 it was the same hook up but we T'd the lift assist pressure line from the planter to the external lift assist cylinder on the tractor.
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oldbones
Posted 5/5/2017 21:20 (#6002851 - in reply to #5999909)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



Floyd County, Iowa
D6Joe - 5/4/2017 09:41

You need the rigid mast (on the planter) for the 3 rd link for it too work....................... .


I have the pivoting mast on my 7300, and lift assist is plumbed into the 3 pt hydraulics lift assist port (JD 8100).
I don't know how you can have your planter hooked to all 3 points on the 3 pt hitch (locked solid), and still use lift assist without stressing something by driving over anything other than absolutely flat ground.
My manual says not to use lift assist without the pivoting mast, due to that.
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D6Joe
Posted 5/7/2017 07:20 (#6004634 - in reply to #6002851)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


east central ND		we are pretty flat ground. But have drains we drive through. With all the weight on the planter drive wheels, have never had a problem crossing drains. Maybe being a 12 r 30" helps with the flexing wings helps. But the lift assist and 3pt arms carry no weight going down the field.
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oldbones
Posted 5/7/2017 18:47 (#6005505 - in reply to #6004634)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



Floyd County, Iowa
D6Joe - 5/7/2017 07:20
But the lift assist and 3pt arms carry no weight going down the field.


I realize the no weight thing when it's planting. I mean when it's up.
Meaning, when it's in the raised position, and you go through a dip, the front wheels of the tractor and the lift assist wheels will be carrying all the weight when the tractor rears go through the dip (with a solid/stationary mast).
Just trying to picture how yours works compared to mine.

Edited by oldbones 5/7/2017 18:52
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Gerald J.
Posted 5/4/2017 09:56 (#5999933 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



The original plan was to tap the three point lift cylinder and use that pressure to operate the lift assist automatically.

Gerald J.
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flyinfarmer
Posted 5/4/2017 10:56 (#6000029 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



NE Iowa		So, our deal is a little different, but maybe similar enough to be of help. We have a 7300 that began life as a 12x30, but we lengthened all 3 sections and made it a 16x30 (It's a little on the wide side going down the road...). So it's a little heavier than yours, but same thinking should apply. It has 3-pt hookup (not 2-pt), but the linkage for the top pin is in a slot. The is so in the planting position, the pin bottoms out in the slot in 1 direction to keep the planter level (fore & aft); but in the up position, the pin is in the middle of the slot to allow the planter to pitch some relative to the tractor to keep the lift assist arm loads manageable (if it didn't do this, the lift assist wheels would try to lift the rear of the tractor off the ground when going through a draw - that would not be good). Anyway, we had this running on the back of a JD4430 with the lift assist wheel cylinders teed into the rockshaft so it was seeing same oil pressure as the rockshaft. This worked pretty well - planter went up pretty level. I now run the planter on an 8410 that has the larger hitch lift cylinders on it. What I found out is that the oil pressure needed to lift the hitch is lower that what is required for the lift assist cylinders to work. I think the lift assist cylinders were 3" cylinders. So I ran the planter for a couple years with the lift assist on a separate SCV. This year I decided I should fix it and swapped out the 3" cylinders for a pair of 4" cylinders. I kind of just took a guess at using 4" cylinders (could have tried 3.5", but didn't). I also now am running the lift assist off the same port you are using so it sees the same oil pressure as the hitch. It works pretty decent - planter goes up and down pretty level, and more importantly, the lift assist wheels are doing what they're supposed to do when the planter is in the air.

So, short version of all that is I would guess you might fix your problem by changing the size of your lift assist cylinders. From your description, I would say you need a smaller set of cylinders so that they need higher pressure to move. The trick is getting the cylinders sized right so that they operate correctly at whatever oil pressure is needed for the hitch to do its thing.

Hope this helps,
Chris
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SWMN-JD
Posted 5/4/2017 12:09 (#6000146 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


You need two directional flow control valves so you can control both the up flow and the down flow of the oil to the lift assist cylinders. The rockshaft rate od drop can be slowed down with a tractor adjustment. The parts you need are listed in the planter hydraulic parts picture under the 7300 planter, hydraulic section, single lever control for lift. In your picture you might already have one of the valves. They allow full flow in one direction and controlled flow the other direction that is why you need two so you can control up and down.
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johndeere430u
Posted 5/4/2017 16:39 (#6000559 - in reply to #6000146)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


Central, mn		It is a 24 row 22" planter and it only has one way Hyd to the lift cylinders. Just one hose not 2.
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SWMN-JD
Posted 5/4/2017 22:10 (#6001283 - in reply to #6000559)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


I understand it only has one hose and that is the only way these flow control valves will work. You install two flow control valves that are identical to each other. The way they work is they only are adjustable to control the amount of oil flowing one direction and oil flows full rate the other direction so if you install two you can dial the rate of drop for the lift assist to match the three point drop rate and then dial the raise for the lift assist to the three point lift. I have installed these and you can get the planter to float to the ground.
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MrFixit86
Posted 4/11/2018 00:32 (#6702083 - in reply to #6001283)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


I'm trying to accomplish the same thing on a 7300 and 4650 with the 2pt setup. I see the needle valves that I need to order in the parts catalog, but I cant figure out the best way to tie into the rockshaft oil. Currently I'm tee'ed into the rockshaft assist cylinder line that is factory installed on the tractor. I am experiencing it lift the assist (rear of planter)all the way prior to the rockshaft when raising up the planter. When lowering the planter, the assist (rear of planter) is the last thing to drop after the rockshaft is all the way down. If I stay tee'ed in there and add the needle valves, my fear is that I will only be able to level out the raise and not the lower, since the rockshaft is beating the assist on the lowering cycle and my needle valves aren't going to help that since they are upstream of the rockshaft return oil.

On the smaller 50 series, JD shows adding a hose/coupler in beween the rockshaft valve and cylinder, so that you can uncouple it from the rockshaft valve pressure oil and couple it into the needle valve setup on an SCV. In that situation, I could put a needle valve on the supply oil going to the rockshaft if I needed to. However, on the 4650, it seems like that pressure line must be an internal passage, because it doesn't hook up externally.

Hope this makes some sense, and if you have any ideas, I would love to hear them.
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oldbones
Posted 4/11/2018 19:47 (#6703344 - in reply to #6702083)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



Floyd County, Iowa		Your first post, welcome aboard.
One thing to know, when you reply to an older post like this, the only ones that will know you replied are the ones that were active in that thread, and only if they check their "You Active Threads".
This site does not "bubble to the top" like some other sites, thankfully.

I have a 7300, 12 row x 30", verticle wing fold, with lift assist.
I have it on an 8100 mfwd, so the lift assist was easy to plumb in, and I can't tell you how to plumb a 50 series.
For that, you might want to do a search for "lift assist", etc. Or post new with something like "Help with plumbing lift assist on a 50 series Deere".

As far as the leveling thing, the lift assist will always raise before the lift arms, and lower after the 3 point lift arms.
You level it in the field with the planter wheels and top link. I haven't had to change the level on mine since I first bought it in 2009.
It sounds like you don't have the pivoting mast on your planter, which you absolutely need if you're going to use lift assist.
Do you have the manual for the planter? It shows how to use the pivoting mast, as well as how to plumb some of the tractors for lift assist.

If you have more questions about what I have said here, go ahead and reply to this, as I check my "active threads" daily.

edit: Is this planter "new to you"?



Edited by oldbones 4/12/2018 19:14
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D6Joe
Posted 4/12/2018 16:42 (#6704728 - in reply to #6703344)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


east central ND		I have 12r 30” 7300. Started on JD 4640, now on JD 8200. Lift assist wheels and solid mast on planter. On 8000 tractor, has a port to hook up lift assist single acting to 3 pt lift circuit. Easy Peasy. On my 4640, it had an external lift assist cylinder on the 3 pt arm of the tractor. I just “t” the hose from the planter lift assist cylinders into the hose from the tractor 3 pt external lift cylinder. Use 3 rd link on 3 pt to level planter. No needle valves or 2 levers to lift the planter needed. I was told you could do this with no external 3 pt lift cylinder ( on the tractor) but do not know how, or where to hook in on cast cap of 3 pt internal cylinder to feed the planter lift assist cylinders.

Edit: mast on planter is what 3rd link hooks to. Can have a solid or a pivoting mast.

Edited by D6Joe 4/12/2018 16:45
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oldbones
Posted 4/12/2018 19:00 (#6704909 - in reply to #6704728)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



Floyd County, Iowa		You said you have a solid mast and lift assist. It may work for you, but it only invites major damage if the tractor rears dip (uneven field, waterway, driveways, etc) while 3 point raised and lift assist under pressure.
Major binding on the stationary mast, planter frame, lift assist, and 3 point system. That's why it was recommended to use the pivoting mast with lift assist. The pivoting mast would hold the planter level when down, but allowed flex when raised.
You can certainly do as you like, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.
And, if you read the rest of the thread (above and below), you'll see where I showed the pics of the lift assist port on my 8100.

edit: I don't understand what a needle valve would help, other than slowing down the lift/lower rate of speed. It wouldn't stop flow.
But as soon as the hydraulic oil supply stops, the pressure will equalize between the lift arm cylinders and the lift assist cylinders, allowing the 3 point lift arms assist to settle down and the lift assist to raise further until the pressure is equalized (the pressure would initially be higher in the lift arms because they are carrying more weight than the lift assist).
Maybe I'm missing something re: needle valves. Someone care to explain it?

Edited by oldbones 4/12/2018 19:13
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johndeere430u
Posted 4/12/2018 18:23 (#6704859 - in reply to #6001283)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point


Central, mn		Do you have a photo of what they would look like together?
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oldbones
Posted 5/4/2017 21:28 (#6001164 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



Floyd County, Iowa		I have a 7300 12x30 wingfold, with lift assist, on an 8100 mfwd. I also have the pivoting mast, so have to use lift assist to raise it. It's hooked into the 3 pt hydraulics, so when I lift the 3 pt, the lift assist raises, too.
If any of this is what you're looking for, let me know.
Not sure what tractor you have, and it sounds like you don't use the top link (?), so my setup may not be what you're doing.
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mafrif
Posted 5/4/2017 22:35 (#6001339 - in reply to #5999681)
Subject: RE: 7300 planter with lift assist how to make work with 3point



NC Iowa		We struggled for years trying to get it perfect. Finally plumbed to separate scv and use ims to control 3 pt, lift assist and lock diff lock with one button. What tractor is it on?
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