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False Hours figured out after purchase.
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stxfarmer
Posted 11/25/2016 23:27 (#5657485)
Subject: False Hours figured out after purchase.


EC ND
Well I purchased our first forklift and was worried about what to look for. Everything seemed to check out and the guys who used it before had lots of good things to say about it. In the add it said 6500 hours and I verified that with the meter. Got it home on Wednesday and took a closer look under the hood. After removing some dirt we found some service notes written on the machine. The hours written under the seat say 11,000 hours. Since the meter rolls over it only displays 6500 which most likely means 16,500. It looks like it was taken good care of the first part of its life because I personally would have never guest it had that many hours. Now the problem is I thought I made a good deal when I bought it as advertised as 6500 hours, but now im disappointed. I have the original add saved that says the hours and also has the serial number on it. What would you do? This was a private sale so it maybe difficult to figure out.

In the end I purchased a 2003 Daewoo 5000 pound capacity forklift with 16000 hours for $5500. Does that still seem like a fair price or should I try to renegotiate.
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Angus8335
Posted 11/25/2016 23:36 (#5657492 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Galena IL
If I lived closer to you I would take it off your hands at 5500 I would not worry about the hours if the machine looks good... Dennis
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1800swath
Posted 11/26/2016 02:49 (#5657527 - in reply to #5657492)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Fulton County Ohio
If it makes you feel better mine has over 25,000 hours and works fine. Looks good too.
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ag4life
Posted 11/26/2016 05:46 (#5657565 - in reply to #5657527)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Southern Illinois
I think for the price/hrs you did great. A 6500 hr machine should run 10-12k.
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Hayerman
Posted 11/26/2016 05:56 (#5657571 - in reply to #5657565)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Sw Ohio. Cedarville
I would call him up. Threading to sue him because he LIAD. Not the way to do business. Maybe get some change back,and hope he don't do it again.
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Jon
Posted 11/26/2016 06:25 (#5657601 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Callao Missouri
The joke is on you, equipment with an hour meter with 4 digits is going to role over, and the meter shows 6500 hrs. You however said the condition of the forklift is fine and that is all that maters. Lots of forklifts and other construction machinery with 20k+ hours on it out there, and I promise you will not wear out your 16k forklift in the forcible future. Jon
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Colorblind
Posted 11/26/2016 07:21 (#5657658 - in reply to #5657601)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


ND
Was the previous owner the first owner of the machine? It's possible he bought it with over 10k hours and didn't know it.

If the lift is as you described and for the price you paid, you still got a good deal in my opinion. When i was shopping for forklifts anything I found for under $10k was pretty beat up and wore out.
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IH_always
Posted 11/26/2016 07:38 (#5657693 - in reply to #5657658)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Could the seat be from another machine? Still got a decent deal. I feel most people are honest in the ag industry.
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Offroadnt
Posted 11/26/2016 07:39 (#5657700 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Southern Alberta Canada
I'd call them up and discuss it with them, see what they say or do. It sounds like you got a decent deal anyway but it may give you a sense of what they are like for future business. Don't get confrontational or anything just inform them what you found and see how they react.
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Tomcat
Posted 11/26/2016 08:00 (#5657737 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Ludington/Manistee MI area
Bought a tractor once that the seller said had under 4300 hours. Hourmeter read that but in 2 years use it still read it. Was I impressed no. In all reality did it affect anything? No. Kinda of a grab your ankles and life goes on kind of thing.
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tj_farms
Posted 11/26/2016 08:11 (#5657761 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Ohio
People LIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get use to it !
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jonas grumby
Posted 11/26/2016 08:30 (#5657802 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Northern Illinois
How long did previous owners own the forklift? It may be that they purchased it used and were told wrong hours, used it for awhile and sold it in good faith. Or they flat out lied to you. If you know they lied I would mention it to them but not expect anything. You purchased a used machine. Buyer beware
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More Beans Please
Posted 11/26/2016 08:37 (#5657822 - in reply to #5657761)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


sw ontario
We run couple forklifts that have 18-20000 hrs with life still left in them. Consider machine operating in 24/7 warehouse or factory could put on 8000 hrs /yr. Seller could of lied or not known any better?? You still got a machine with lots life. It will probably wear you out before you wear it out!!!!
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ac45
Posted 11/26/2016 08:45 (#5657837 - in reply to #5657802)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Meter shows. Meter reads. Metered hours. Are far different from actual . Lifes goes on. People put too much emphasis on what a little guage says anyway.

Edited by ac45 11/26/2016 08:47
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dt943
Posted 11/26/2016 08:53 (#5657851 - in reply to #5657837)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Rochester Illinois

I paid 5500 for a forklift 10 years ago,  no idea on the hours but it was sharp and runs great. Dont use it all that much but sure nice to have.  

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Illinois Steve
Posted 11/26/2016 09:01 (#5657862 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


North Central Illinois
Let it go. You don't buy much of a forklift for $5500 and it sounds like this one is in good shape. The guy you bought it from probably thought the hours were honest. You did just fine.
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FromtheFlats
Posted 11/26/2016 09:14 (#5657880 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


EC IL
Price is fine, I doubt I would worry about it too much. I know I would still give him one phone call to see what his reaction was.
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Ben D, N CA
Posted 11/26/2016 10:19 (#5657978 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot
Most industrial stuff is made to be ran in more of a factory situation, and not for a week or two like farm equipment often is. Its built well.

A $5000 forklift is going to have who knows how many hours on it. I'd have never worried about the meter, look at the machine. Sounds like the machine is fine.
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littlejoe
Posted 11/26/2016 10:51 (#5658033 - in reply to #5657880)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Big Sky Country
FromtheFlats - 11/26/2016 09:14

Price is fine, I doubt I would worry about it too much. I know I would still give him one phone call to see what his reaction was.


Yup. No reason to jump to conclusions, communication is important in ANY relationship. Sometimes people jump ahead, project, get mad, attack. All counterproductive.

(and I am not a guru--I learn my lessons by fistfights, black eyes, jails, broken relationships, etc....)
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Drilldo
Posted 11/26/2016 12:09 (#5658138 - in reply to #5658033)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Texas
I bought a skid steer from an individual around 2010 a 2006 model with 390 hours on the meter and that is what is was advertised as. I used it for a few years and it had around 800 hours showing when I went to trade it in on a new one at the dealer. The dealer pulled up the history and it had some work done on it at the dealership in 2008 I believe and had 1200 hours at the time.

Who knows how many hours it actually had but I was duped and I had all my records to show the dealer that I was not the one trying to do the decieving when I traded it in.

My dealer said it is pretty common in used construction equipment for the hour meters to be way wrong.

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county_line
Posted 11/26/2016 12:10 (#5658140 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


stxfarmer - 11/25/2016 23:27 Well I purchased our first forklift and was worried about what to look for. Everything seemed to check out and the guys who used it before had lots of good things to say about it. In the add it said 6500 hours and I verified that with the meter. Got it home on Wednesday and took a closer look under the hood. After removing some dirt we found some service notes written on the machine. The hours written under the seat say 11,000 hours. Since the meter rolls over it only displays 6500 which most likely means 16,500. It looks like it was taken good care of the first part of its life because I personally would have never guest it had that many hours. Now the problem is I thought I made a good deal when I bought it as advertised as 6500 hours, but now im disappointed. I have the original add saved that says the hours and also has the serial number on it. What would you do? This was a private sale so it maybe difficult to figure out. In the end I purchased a 2003 Daewoo 5000 pound capacity forklift with 16000 hours for $5500. Does that still seem like a fair price or should I try to renegotiate.


A phone call wouldn't hurt a thing, but you didn't overspend as much as you may think.  IMO, a 6,500 hour model that you describe would often be listed in the $8,500-11,000 range.  Forklifts are a funny thing, but as long as fluids don't leak, the brakes work, and the thing starts when you want to use it, it will last you a LOOONG time.  You'll find that you will be using it often, just not for very long each time you jump on it.    

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Tim in WI
Posted 11/26/2016 12:42 (#5658173 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Embarrass WI
My forklift had 17,xxx hours when I bought it and I paid more than that, so I think you did alright. From what I have seen, they pretty much don't wear out. I am sure they do, eventually, but not at 17,xxx hours.
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mschultz
Posted 11/26/2016 12:47 (#5658177 - in reply to #5657485)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


Oregon
If they represented it as a 6500 hour machine and they knew that the forklift had significantly more hours, they committed fraud. I see two issues:

1. Did the seller know that it had more than 6500 hours? If yes, you likely have a legal remedy.

2. If they did not knowing misrepresent the number of hours, it becomes a question of whether a valid contract for sale ever formed. The question then, as above, is what type of remedy is available to you.


In both instances, knowing misrepresentation (fraud) and mistaken misrepresentation (defect in contract formation), the initial issue is the same: What do you want? What remedy would make you whole?

1. Would you like to return the unit and be compensated for your time and expense?

2. Would you like to renegotiate the price to reflect the additional 10,000 hours of wear and tear and keep the unit?


My hunch, shooting from a running horse, is that you just want a fair deal on the equipment you purchased. Therefore, it is on you to calculate the difference in value of a 16k hour forklift versus a 6k hour forklift of the same make and model. There is a mature forklift market- you should be able to figure this out with some homework. Some comments here suggest that you still received pretty good value at 16k hours. I have no idea. Do the research- if you overpaid for a 16k hour unit, give them a call, nicely lay out the facts, and suggest a fair price term. The seller's reaction to "it appears the forklift has 10k more hours than advertised" will tell you a lot.

Finally, while the facts presented make it appear that the law is on your side- keep in mind that engaging legal counsel will likely cost you more than the difference in value at issue. So I'd recommend that if 16k hour forklifts of the make and model you just purchased are worth less than you paid, approach the seller respectfully and forthrightly in the hope of being able to resolve it yourself.



My $0.02

-Mike

Edit to add: One comment posted that the hours may actually be correct and the seat came off of another machine. Good point. You probably ought to do some more investigation and figure out whether the meter has actually rolled or not. Either way, a polite conversation with the seller will probably give you some insight to how you want to handle it.

Edited by mschultz 11/26/2016 13:04
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PeteMN
Posted 11/26/2016 20:40 (#5658862 - in reply to #5657837)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.


E.Central MN
You know it and I know it. But its still silly when an auctioneer can sit with a straight face and say "the machine shows XXX hours" and its an old worn out piece of junk.
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Ben D, N CA
Posted 11/26/2016 21:25 (#5658949 - in reply to #5658177)
Subject: RE: False Hours figured out after purchase.



Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot
mschultz - 11/26/2016 09:47

If they represented it as a 6500 hour machine and they knew that the forklift had significantly more hours, they committed fraud. I see two issues:

1. Did the seller know that it had more than 6500 hours? If yes, you likely have a legal remedy.

2. If they did not knowing misrepresent the number of hours, it becomes a question of whether a valid contract for sale ever formed. The question then, as above, is what type of remedy is available to you.


In both instances, knowing misrepresentation (fraud) and mistaken misrepresentation (defect in contract formation), the initial issue is the same: What do you want? What remedy would make you whole?

1. Would you like to return the unit and be compensated for your time and expense?

2. Would you like to renegotiate the price to reflect the additional 10,000 hours of wear and tear and keep the unit?


My hunch, shooting from a running horse, is that you just want a fair deal on the equipment you purchased. Therefore, it is on you to calculate the difference in value of a 16k hour forklift versus a 6k hour forklift of the same make and model. There is a mature forklift market- you should be able to figure this out with some homework. Some comments here suggest that you still received pretty good value at 16k hours. I have no idea. Do the research- if you overpaid for a 16k hour unit, give them a call, nicely lay out the facts, and suggest a fair price term. The seller's reaction to "it appears the forklift has 10k more hours than advertised" will tell you a lot.

Finally, while the facts presented make it appear that the law is on your side- keep in mind that engaging legal counsel will likely cost you more than the difference in value at issue. So I'd recommend that if 16k hour forklifts of the make and model you just purchased are worth less than you paid, approach the seller respectfully and forthrightly in the hope of being able to resolve it yourself.



My $0.02

-Mike

Edit to add: One comment posted that the hours may actually be correct and the seat came off of another machine. Good point. You probably ought to do some more investigation and figure out whether the meter has actually rolled or not. Either way, a polite conversation with the seller will probably give you some insight to how you want to handle it.



Lot of good thoughts there. Only thing I'd think is a lot of times you see in an ad... Hours: 6500 (unverified). Or some disclaimer at the bottom. Most places have those now, as most of these places are buying/selling/auction house/consignment, etc. They have no way to know for sure.
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