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Anyone replace DEF with water?
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Funacres
Posted 4/4/2016 23:58 (#5222299)
Subject: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Texas

I saw a video showing water being used instead of DEF in a Dodge pickup.  

Except for freezing temps, can you safely fill the DEF tank with water, or will doing so result in some type of damage?

Since DEF is a high percentage of water, and since it is injected into the exhaust system after the DPF, is there any reason not to use water and save the expense and hassle of DEF?

I'm not into global warming, and the new diesels run much cleaner than the older ones, so why not use water? 

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durallymax
Posted 4/5/2016 00:19 (#5222318 - in reply to #5222299)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Wi
It works excellent, NOx sensors can't tell a difference.
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1chevy02
Posted 4/5/2016 00:49 (#5222332 - in reply to #5222318)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?



I thought the def quality sensors would pick it up on the newer stuff?
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Mlkgsmer
Posted 4/5/2016 01:12 (#5222340 - in reply to #5222332)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Charlotte, Michigan
Yup, sensor will see water, report def quality issues and turn on light. Then after enough time into shop. I think you know the rest.
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Maxzillian
Posted 4/5/2016 07:35 (#5222595 - in reply to #5222318)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


You bet! I don't think any manufacturers thought someone would try to run water instead of DEF.
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German Shepherd
Posted 4/5/2016 06:28 (#5222459 - in reply to #5222299)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Why would anyone even want to risk it?   Repairs cost money.

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johnypop
Posted 4/5/2016 06:54 (#5222503 - in reply to #5222299)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


ND
Funacres - 4/4/2016 11:58

I saw a video showing water being used instead of DEF in a Dodge pickup.  

Except for freezing temps, can you safely fill the DEF tank with water, or will doing so result in some type of damage?

Since DEF is a high percentage of water, and since it is injected into the exhaust system after the DPF, is there any reason not to use water and save the expense and hassle of DEF?

I'm not into global warming, and the new diesels run much cleaner than the older ones, so why not use water? 



Try it and tell us how it's working out for you, when you run out just pee in the tank.
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cow and calfs
Posted 4/5/2016 06:59 (#5222512 - in reply to #5222299)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Fort Recovery. Ohio
Yes it does work, some think its a myth but know several that our using water!
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dpilot83
Posted 4/5/2016 07:39 (#5222604 - in reply to #5222299)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?



I believe you are asking a serious question and I believe some of the answers are joking. I can't tell with durallymax. He knows his stuff and didn't answer in a way that indicates he is joking. I believe he was though.

Basically, please do not try using water in your DEF system without studying in depth how your DEF system works so you understand how many dollars it's going to cost you to get it fixed after you're done experimenting.
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tj_farms
Posted 4/5/2016 08:08 (#5222669 - in reply to #5222604)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?



Ohio
Really?

If that's true, why would any one buy DEF ?

For $2.00 a gallon, I don't think I'll take the risk in my $250,000.00 Combine and Tractors.

BUT, try it and let us know how it works out. Inquiring minds want to know. If you find a substitute for Diesel fuel, that would be excellent.

I just had a thought, use water instead of that expensive liquid fertilizer?
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durallymax
Posted 4/5/2016 08:36 (#5222715 - in reply to #5222604)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Wi
Water won't hurt the system but it will de-rate you pretty quick. ECM compares NOx values pre/post, if conversion is low it will start throwing codes and will eventually derate.

The guys question does have an inkling of truth in its background though, some of the first systems didn't monitor NOx conversion in real time to determine dosing and efficiency, some of these didn't care what was in the tank nor did they have a urea quality sensor. That was quickly retrofitted. Cummins first truck engines with SCR were the popular one, Navistar complained to the EPA and Cummins rectified the issue.

Edited by durallymax 4/5/2016 08:40
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Maxzillian
Posted 4/5/2016 08:37 (#5222726 - in reply to #5222715)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Yup, and many applications now also have a "DEF quality" sensor in the tank that will cause a de-rate if the tank were filled with water.
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redbloodedfarmboy
Posted 4/5/2016 11:45 (#5223033 - in reply to #5222726)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


central Mi.
what about putting the DEF quality sensor in a jug of good stuff and water in the tank?? Or mixing like 50/50
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THOMPSONCASEIH
Posted 4/5/2016 12:13 (#5223085 - in reply to #5223033)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


this still wont change the fact the your system will recognize that it is running with high NOx levels because there is no DEF being injected into the exhaust catalyst. its a novel idea but unfortunately wont cut the cake!
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JDGnut
Posted 4/5/2016 12:46 (#5223142 - in reply to #5223085)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Waxahachie, TX
As above.. it depends on the system, but they will catch it in time.. Some will have the quality sensor.. (which is really looking at the consitration level of Urea/water)
Others will use the Outlet NOx sensor. If it doesn't sense a reduction in NOx it will regen, or increase the exhaust temps to try to clean out the decomp tube and SCR/AOC canister. Then check the NOx again.. if no change it will derate, or start the emissions countdown time.. (which we eventually derate it to idle.)
My point is.. it might take the system little while to figure it out.. but it will..

Edited by JDGnut 4/5/2016 12:47
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chadihman
Posted 4/5/2016 21:49 (#5224224 - in reply to #5223142)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Pennsylvania
OMG I sure hope this mith does'nt go viral! I'll be busy flushing the system and resetting the counters
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Wundrow Farms
Posted 4/5/2016 23:32 (#5224428 - in reply to #5222299)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?


Boone County, Northern Illinois
With DEF freezing.. how about putting some rubbing alchohol in or a new way to get rid of coolant ;) This is all pure stupidity, lets add more needless crap to our equipment break and replace... If I had a machine with it I'd figure out how to get rid of all that crap. EPA can go to China and work on cleaning up their messes first... Just my 2 cents :)
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1chevy02
Posted 4/6/2016 00:19 (#5224466 - in reply to #5224428)
Subject: RE: Anyone replace DEF with water?



We have found a way to work around the def systems on some of our equipment that cost pennies in resistors. It's nice not having to deal with that nasty crap during harvest.
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