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Stormwatcher

Posted 5/1/2013 08:11 (#3073283)
Subject: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

WCMO-SWMO Area

I and a friend were recently talking about the old 460 and 560 Farmall diesels.....Many years ago his Dad had a 560 diesel and my Dad had a 460 diesel....Both were bought used with quite a few hours on them....We both seem to remember holding the glow plug button forever in cold weather but cant seem to remember if we used the glow plugs much in warm weather....This was 45-50 years ago and its getting hard to remember..

Did any of you buy these tractors new? How good did they start then? I've been thinking about buying a 460 diesel just because my late Dad used to have a 1959 model...I dont even have any pictures of it or the M Farmall that he traded off...

Edited by Stormwatcher 5/1/2013 08:32

mr.agco

Posted 5/1/2013 08:23 (#3073299 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: RE: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Watonwan County MN

Yes.

riverlandranch

Posted 5/1/2013 08:26 (#3073308 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Pendleton Oregon

My pops had a IH 560 that was almost new when he bought it. Even if it was just shut off for a hour or so the engine started the same as if it was cold. As long as you have good batteries, good switch, good glow plugs, good wire harness and good connections on the glow plugs you'll be good to go. 460's have basically the same engine, the 460 is a D236 and the 560 is a D282, the head is the same except the 560 has a little larger valves. Good luck with your tractors

tommyw-5088

Posted 5/1/2013 08:38 (#3073329 - in reply to #3073308)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

south Texas , York Rife Freemason

Most of them dont have all the glow plugs working ,But at that they start better than a 4020

Herdboar

Posted 5/1/2013 09:00 (#3073372 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: RE: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

St. Clair MN; Casa Grande AZ

The last IH tractor an this farm, an 806 wouldn't start either.
We would set a 55 gallon barrel with a Knipco blowing on the block when it got below 55 degrees.
At least we could pull start the the John Deere 4010.
We traded the 806 for a 4620 (with a cab!).

Bill Moyer

Posted 5/1/2013 09:10 (#3073388 - in reply to #3073372)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Coldwater, Michigan

Most diesels of that era started hard. Didn't matter who made them. Some worse than others, The old 830 Cases were better than the newer ones because they had a compression lever. You could take compression off then start winding the starter, Inject some starter fluid into air cleaner, and she would start right up. When they got rid of the compression lever, it was a bit more of a challenge. If the temperature dropped, it was better to plug them in.

Nebraska Sandhiller

Posted 5/1/2013 13:07 (#3073704 - in reply to #3073372)
Subject: RE: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

NNW Nebraska

Possibly you had a 706 instead of a 806. I still run a 806 and it starts good. I think the 706 had a engine more like a 560. That being said, a 560 don't start that bad if you had good batteries, all the glow plugs working and if it was below freezing, plug in the engine heater. Sounds like you needed to do some maintenance on your tractor.

I run a IH 656 diesel and I would say it will start much better than my jd 4650 when cold, but do have to use the glow plugs.

bshannon

Posted 5/1/2013 09:14 (#3073396 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

My husband always said if you walked past it with an ice cream cone on a hot summer day it wouldn't start. Our 560 was always a hard starter, except one night the starter solenoid shorted out and the darn thing started itself in the shed. A trade up to an 806 was a big improvement, much easier starting tractor.

Ben D, N CA

Posted 5/1/2013 11:20 (#3073542 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: RE: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot

We had several 656's and a 706 when I was a kid. Same engine. If the glowplugs were all good, wires and relays in good shape, and the 6v batteries had been replaced by 12 V batteries, they would always start. No matter how cold, if you were patient and held the glowplugs in long enough they would fire right up. Just have to be patient. I think if it was cold it was a minute or two. Dad used to leave one at the house all winter with a box scraper on it to move snow. Ours were Hydro's, great tractor for a kid to drive, so it was my job. I remember it taking forever to get the glowplugs hot enough.

801486

Posted 5/1/2013 11:20 (#3073543 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

west central Iowa

My 560 diesel has started as cold as 17 degrees without being plugged in. It helped a lot when we switched to one big 12 volt battery instead of the 2 6 volts. It has 6100 hours on the tach and it hasn't worked since it was overhauled in the early 70s so it probably has 10000 to 12000 hours on it. It wouldn't have needed to be overhauled when it was, but the overflow tube plugged on the radiator and it overheated on the silage blower with nobody sitting on it.

jcfarmboy

Posted 5/1/2013 11:26 (#3073555 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

South Western Ontario, Canada

The 450 I have starts on the coldest days without being plugged in ( it doesn't even have a block heater). Guess the fact it starts on gas and after she is warm switch to diesel. That's the best thing since sliced bread in my opinion. Just trying to start on diesel and I see what you mean thou.

JohnW

Posted 5/1/2013 11:33 (#3073564 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: RE: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

NW Washington

I think those hard starting engines were probably "pre-combustion chamber" engines which were favored in early diesel engines because the reduced the initial shock of fuel ignition and gave a longer fuel burn time.
But pre-combustion chamber engines are notorious hard starters. The early Navistar diesel engines used in Ford pickups were pre-combustion chamber engines too and they did not start unless the glow plugs were used.

I remember being told to hold the glow plug button on a IH 453 combine till I thought my thumb would fall off and then try the starter. And this was during the summer.

gemarsh

Posted 5/1/2013 11:54 (#3073597 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Central NE

They start well when they are alone... this one was setting on a very slight slope then progressed into a slope that you might be able to sled down. It was parked in reverse with a 5' bushhog setting on the ground attached to the 3point. Next morning it was gone.

Ready for a long sentence?...Somehow it rolled backwards, started in reverse, and continued down the hill for a 1000 yrds, into a creek full of water, ran till it ran out of fuel, spinning the rear axle, burying the rear end, sliding the batteries to one-side, shorting out the positive side, frying the wiring harness from the dash all the way to the generator, taking the generator also, submersing the rear end, filling housing with water, catching a branch between the steering wheel and throttle.

Poor girl fried the leaves of the tree above the exhaust.

Remember, there is a bush hog attached....

Be Safe
Gayle

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jalopy

Posted 5/1/2013 12:58 (#3073690 - in reply to #3073597)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

NC IA

I'm picturing my 18-month-old saying "uht-ohh."

johnny skeptical

Posted 5/1/2013 13:29 (#3073735 - in reply to #3073597)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

n.c.iowa

i thought that stuff like this only happened to me,i get to start out alot tales by saying"who would'a thought"!!

Trent2520

Posted 5/1/2013 16:53 (#3073985 - in reply to #3073597)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Statesville, NC

I don't see how any tractor would roll start in reverse like that, with the bush hog on the ground and needing glow plugs. Are you sure something didn't short out or lightening or something and it started up? Or maybe some kids messing with it? I would think if you pulled a 560 backwards on dry pavement in reverse it would slide the tires, or take a lot of turning to build up enough heat to start.

gemarsh

Posted 5/1/2013 18:04 (#3074060 - in reply to #3073985)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Central NE

Trent2520 - 5/1/2013 15:53

I don't see how any tractor would roll start in reverse, with the bush hog on the ground and needing glow plugs. Are you sure something didn't short out or lightening or something and it started up? Or maybe some kids messing with it? I would think if you pulled a 560 backwards on dry pavement in reverse it would slide the tires, or take a lot of turning to build up enough heat to start.

I agree. Would not believe it myself if I didn't walk up to it to find it in reverse. Kids/pranksters would be out of the question. No signs of lightening. Hard to see how glow plugs and crank circuit would both short out. Me... I was blaming aliens. Dad blamed gravity.

Be Safe
Gayle

Trent2520

Posted 5/1/2013 19:14 (#3074165 - in reply to #3074060)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Statesville, NC

Maybe with the TA in low it just rolled? I know my 544 won't hold unless the TA is in high.

edit: just re-read your post, about the engine running and burning the tree leaves. Very unusual indeed.

Edited by Trent2520 5/1/2013 19:35

gemarsh

Posted 5/1/2013 12:03 (#3073611 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Central NE

I should also mention, with a new wiring harness, generator, draining the rear end, filling with fuel and charging the batteries, it is running to this day. 32degrees or less, hold the glow plug button for a count of 120 and it will start right up.

Be Safe
Gayle

Cardinal_Farms

Posted 5/1/2013 12:24 (#3073638 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: RE: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Central Iowa

If the starter, glow plugs and batteries are good they start very well. However, even in the summer the glow plugs still have to be used for at least 10 seconds. I have a 460 diesel that i have kept in good mechanical condition and it starts very well down to about 20 degrees. When it's colder than that I plug it in.

Red/Green

Posted 5/1/2013 17:15 (#3074003 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Elizabethtown,KY

I have a 460 Diesel and had a 656 years ago, I put a big 12 volt battery in the 460 a few years ago and put Ford Power stroke glow plugs in it, you have to run a SAE die over the glow plug threads before they will thread into the tractor. I think Hy Capacity has a kit to do this. I had an IH mechanic who was a few years older than me to convert mine, he re-wired them and used a lawn mower solenoid to energize them, the glow plug needle only goes over about 1/2 way now, and unless it is really cold, 20 seconds is plenty, if it is plugged in 20-30 seconds is plenty when cold outside.

Edited by Red/Green 5/1/2013 17:16

tomosakis

Posted 5/1/2013 19:15 (#3074167 - in reply to #3073283)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Osakis, MN

We had one for probably 40 yrs. on our farm. It was a cold blooded starter for sure! If it wouldn't start before the batteries were dead you could pull start it and it would start the second you let your foot off the clutch. Some one told me after the tractor was gone that a good remedy for the poor starting was a different starter, if I recall the starter from a newer tractor like a 966 or 856 would fit, not 100 percent sure on the model number. He said it was stronger and would spin the tractor over much faster making them start way better. Never had a chance to try it just something I was told.

IADAVE

Posted 5/1/2013 21:22 (#3074557 - in reply to #3074167)
Subject: Re: Were 460-560 Farmall Diesels Hard To Start Even In Warm Weather

Ours always started and always need glowed to do it. I was pulling a 4-16 plow and harrow in 4th gear and killed it turning around. It still wouldn't start until I glowed it 10 seconds. In winter ours was always plugged in and in the garage. If we needed it I started it before I started milking. by the time I got 5 cows milked, the milk separated and the separator cleaned it was hitting on all 6 and ready to go!
One day we were tired of sparrows in the garage so we got a bright idea. We sealed the building with burlap bags and let her run until she quit from lack of O2. Opened the doors and thought it worked like a charm. Birds were laying every where. I thought I will get the grinder started and clean up the birds while it was grinding feed. When I cam back all the birds were coming around!

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