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middle ga | I had the engine rebuilt in my old parade tractor (Oliver 66) and now the 6 volt system wont reliably turn it over (Lots more compression). I want to convert it to 12 volt so I have installed a 12 volt voltage regulator, coil and other electrical components. Question is will the generator and starter need to be changed?
I have St Jude's children's ride coming up and want her to run ok.
JHolland
Middle Ga |
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South Western Ontario, Canada | Generator will have to be switched out. Starter will be fine just roll it over little faster. I don't think the starter will hold up for years of service but never had a starter switched for that long. |
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| I had switch to 8 volt battery without changing anything. But I think you will need a 12 volt generator for your setup. |
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| did a MH 44 pos ground
the starter will turn the right way if hooked to neg ground
used a ford starter looking relay and it was scarry haw fast it would turn over
amp meter will read backwards till you switch the wires |
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EC Illinois | The starter will work but you will have to put on a 12 volt generator or alternator. Most 12 volt systems are negative ground. I am not sure what the Oliver system is. Most 6 volts were positive ground. You can change yours by changing battery cables, changing sides of the wires on the amp guage, changing the wires on the coil (+ from switch and - to dist. and probably have to put a resistor in the wire feeding the coil. Any parts house has these. |
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Marion,ks | I have 4 MM tractors that have been changed to 12 volt . The 6 volt starters work fine but they are a little harder on starter drives replace the generator with a alternator. It was one of the best things we have done to them they start a lot better. |
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| Many of that era used an 8 volt battery to try and up the cranking rpm's but you had to have the 6 volt generator output adjusted to keep the 8 volt battery charged. It's a stop gap measure as 8 volts are sort of an odd battery to find. Might as well just do a full 12 volt conversion to negative ground easiest is to install a self exciting GM alternator. Change coil out & reverse leads, switch ammeter leads if it is currently 6v pos ground. Change light bulbs to 12v. Can still use original 6volt starter. Switched my 1955 Super 77 over in 1992 and would never go back to generator or 6 volt system. 12 volt spins it much faster and it starts pretty much instantly no comparison to 6 volt system. Never had any trouble with starter since conversion. It's turning and working far less with 12 volts than grinding away at low speeds with 6 volts.  At one time I think there were some specialty places that could take an old generator (might have needed to be 12 volts to start with?) and would change the guts over to an alternator. It gave you a modern alternator in the original looking generator case for an original look on the tractor. Will likely have to rev engine to get alternator to start charging initially. |
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North West IA/western AZ | I'm envious of the 66. Got any pictures? |
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NW Washington | Here is a schematic/wiring diagram for switching a Farmall M from 6 to 12volts which should be similar to your case. BTW most alternators have the voltage regulator circuit built into them unlike the old 6 volt generator systems.
I think Jon Hagen gets credit for this diagram.
If you are a purist like Bobby G then there are some alternators around that look like old generators for a price. http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=543
Edited by JohnW 3/31/2013 10:26
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 Delco_alternator_wiring_and_12V_conversion.jpg (9KB - 1094 downloads)
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Dallas Center IA 515-720-2463 | If a parade or show tractor - Do Not put a alternator on it.
Nothing like a nice restored tractor with a 1990s alternator hanging on the engine.
Why not add a ROPS, cab with AC, and GPS auto steer while they are at it.
If you want to use the tractor around the farm, a alternator is better, but not needed.
Oliver tractors with generators were postive ground, both 6 V and 12 V.
I have a tractor that had a dash fire a few years ago. The only thing the alternator is doing is keeping the fan belt tight.
It will go a long time between battery charges.
But it is a diesel. A gas burner may be a different story.
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| The 6volt generator WILL work as a 12 volt generator. Just has to turn faster. Where the 6 volt application it would charge at a fast idle or faster, it will need to be 40 or 50% faster than the minimum charging speed with a 12 volt battery. The field coils will run hotter on 12 volts and probably burn up in time, probably years, not days. There are shops that can change the field coils. I have a 6 volt Delco generator that I've used as a motor on 12 and 24 volts experimenting and it didn't overheat.
Poor cranking on 6 volts is often not the fault of the starter, but a wimpy battery and wimpier starter cables. Go back and put on 0 or 00 cables, not the 4 gauge from the wallyworld kiosk and there will be a world of difference. Clean the battery posts and all the connections, including how the starter case is grounded. In my experience with 6 volt cars that's needed twice a year, else the won't crank. You need a bigger 6 volt battery too, not the #1 that has sat on a shelf for 2 years, maybe a #1a that's freshly made.
Generally 6 volt starters run fine on 12 volts, but you don't want to keep on cranking a balky engine or they will burn up.
Gerald J. |
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Faunsdale, AL | The inertia startler drives have a harder life with high voltage, but a solenoid shift starter or a manual shift style should work just fine for a long time. I have always heard you only had to change the regulator on a 6 volt generator to charge a 12 volt battery, but have no direct experience doing it. I have seen a 24 volt Delco generator that was incorrectly installed putting out 40+ volts for years of occasional use, so I believe the regulator swap should work unless you have lots of lights. |
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| Use 12 volt coil with internal resistor . Negative on coil to distributor . If tractor was + ground reverse wires on amp guage , 6 volt generator will work slow but not reliable . Usually use 1 wire delco . Disadvantage to the delco is they will run the battery down in time because the field draws milliamp all the time . If tractor runs with key off or burns points up put diode in wire to dist . |
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| We run new heavier positive cable from battery to starter mounting bolt on S66 gas and cranks fine even right after engine rebuild. Battery box was not good ground. |
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Nusbaum Farms LLC Bellfountain, OR | I sorta agree with you Bobby, although on a 66 it isn't visible until the side hood is opened. For our purposes here on the farm, we have replaced nearly all of our generators with alternators.....and we have a lot of old stuff. The only hold-out is the IH 404, and if and when it fails to charge, it will likely get a Delco 10si as well. Even if a generator is working correctly, they usually only charge about 10A which is fine when the tractor runs for 8 hours at a time. Most old tractors are only run for short periods of time between starts and the generator doesn't keep up, forcing you to charge the battery every so often.
-Orin |
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Near Intersection of I-35 & I-90 Southern Mn. | Switched a Farmall H like this several years ago. I was concerned that the starter would turn the wrong way with the reversal of polarity. This is not problem since the all internal workings now have the opposite polarity so the starter still turns the correct direction.
I think the conversion may actually be easier on the starter because it starts so good now. You just barely look at the starter switch and the engine is running. This is a tremendous improvement on this tractor.
As mentioned above you may need to speed up the engine with an alternator conversion to get it to start to charge. Once it is charging as shown by the Ammeter then the tractor can be idled back and it will continue to charge.
Edited by tedbear 3/31/2013 15:38
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| The 6v generator doesn't have to be switched out. I have two that were stepped up to 12v by the local auto electric repair shop. As for the starter, just don't crank on it for long periods so it doesn't overheat. |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | JohnW - 4/1/2013 09:18
Here is a schematic/wiring diagram for switching a Farmall M from 6 to 12volts which should be similar to your case. BTW most alternators have the voltage regulator circuit built into them unlike the old 6 volt generator systems.
I think Jon Hagen gets credit for this diagram.
If you are a purist like Bobby G then there are some alternators around that look like old generators for a price. http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=543
Here is the 12V , 90 amp alternator built in a generator case for the stock look, but over $400.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-82051/applications/?prefilter... |
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | tedbear - 4/1/2013 14:35
Switched a Farmall H like this several years ago. I was concerned that the starter would turn the wrong way with the reversal of polarity. This is not problem since the all internal workings now have the opposite polarity so the starter still turns the correct direction.
I think the conversion may actually be easier on the starter because it starts so good now. You just barely look at the starter switch and the engine is running. This is a tremendous improvement on this tractor.
As mentioned above you may need to speed up the engine with an alternator conversion to get it to start to charge. Once it is charging as shown by the Ammeter then the tractor can be idled back and it will continue to charge.
Most tractor conversions do fine with a 37 amp Delco "1 wire " alternator, as it is usually replacing a 20 amp generator. A 37 amp "1 wire " alternator will self excite (begin charging) at about 1/2 the rpm of a 61 or 72 amp "1 wire" alt.
Edited by Jon Hagen 3/31/2013 18:43
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | ccjersey - 4/1/2013 10:13
The inertia startler drives have a harder life with high voltage, but a solenoid shift starter or a manual shift style should work just fine for a long time. I have always heard you only had to change the regulator on a 6 volt generator to charge a 12 volt battery, but have no direct experience doing it. I have seen a 24 volt Delco generator that was incorrectly installed putting out 40+ volts for years of occasional use, so I believe the regulator swap should work unless you have lots of lights.
In conversions using the inertia drive with cushion spring. If the starter is wild enough on 12V to break the cushion springs, replace one battery cable with a whimpy wallmart 12V cable. This will often slow the starter just enough to save the cushion spring, yet still crank twice as fast as the 6V setup.
Edited by Jon Hagen 3/31/2013 19:14
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Hagen Brothers farms,Goodrich ND | ace19 - 4/1/2013 10:47
Use 12 volt coil with internal resistor . Negative on coil to distributor . If tractor was + ground reverse wires on amp guage , 6 volt generator will work slow but not reliable . Usually use 1 wire delco . Disadvantage to the delco is they will run the battery down in time because the field draws milliamp all the time . If tractor runs with key off or burns points up put diode in wire to dist .
Good advice, but a couple comments. There is no such thing as a coil with internal resistor. There are only coils with a 3 ohm primary winding, designed to run on 12 volts, or their are coils with a 1.5 ohm primary winding that are designed to run on 6V, or 12V with an external resistor.
Also the newer (built in the last 20 years) Delco SI series "1 wire" alternators, have the field totally isolated from battery voltage by the rectifier assy, so they will not slowly discharge the battery.
Edited by Jon Hagen 3/31/2013 19:12
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NWIN | the 6volt generator will charge 12volt ok, just needs a few more rpm's at low speed. I had a E4 Co-op that way for 10+ years |
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NWIN | addition, you already have a 12v regulator installed you are good to go |
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middle ga | Good Lord! Didn't know there were that many mechanics out there doing this kind of conversion. Thanks for all the info and tips guys. This is why I like this forum. You can get advise on the oldest or newest stuff running. Thanks again.
JHolland
Middle Ga |
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12 Volt conversion
