Posted 2/20/2013 08:36 (#2912285) Subject: John Deere vs Case ih.
First of all I am not bashing either brand. Our farm does does have more red than green but that is because of dealer location vs green. John Deere makes a great FWA and I have been pricing the same size and spec case and jd. My question is why is green more. A little more I could see they do make a premium looking/functioning tractor in my mind. But $35,000 seems a little much. Is it my dealers ? What are others experiences ?
Posted 2/20/2013 08:53 (#2912326 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
It seems John Deere's motto is: If we build it they will come. Because they can. Because they know that there are guys that will pay the difference for a Deere. We have green here, and we love them, but the red and blue and yellow are just less expensive.
We prices a 8360RT vs a Challenger 765D and the Deere was $65,000 more for a comparably equipped tractor. The only difference was that the Deere has the IVT.
Posted 2/20/2013 09:04 (#2912360 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: RE: John Deere vs Case ih.
There are people on here that have been buying green farm equipment for generations without so much as looking at anything else. As far as they are concerned green farm machines are the be all and end all, if there is not a green machine that fits their needs, no such machine exists. I could be argued that it is stupidity to spend so much money and not shop around, so consider the green premium a Stupidity Tax.
Posted 2/20/2013 09:18 (#2912389 - in reply to #2912360) Subject: RE: John Deere vs Case ih.
How is that any different then guys who have been buying red for many generations. I've found JD is most instances is not that much more like some people claim if both machines are optioned out the same. I had a neighbor this fall looking at getting a self propelled sprayer and they demoed a new Case Patriot 4430 and a JD 4940. The JD was only $10,000 more and they liked it better but they went with case. Matches their red tractors.
Posted 2/20/2013 09:28 (#2912411 - in reply to #2912389) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
"The JD was only $10,000 more and they liked it better but they went with case. "
Only $10,000 more? Depending on what they liked "better" assuming that both sprayers would do the same job, why wouldn't you go with the Case? $10,000 ammortized over 5 years at 5% is around $12,500. That buys a lot of beer.
Posted 2/20/2013 13:13 (#2912837 - in reply to #2912411) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
If everybody had that attitude, we'd all be running Apache sprayers and those little rinky dinky Spra coupes since they are the cheapest of the cheap. You've never paid a little extra for something you thought was better? I doubt it.
Posted 2/20/2013 12:12 (#2912723 - in reply to #2912389) Subject: RE: John Deere vs Case ih.
Steiger Man - 2/20/2013 09:18
How is that any different then guys who have been buying red for many generations.
It is no different.
The brand loyalty some people on here have is hysterical, these people deserve to pay too much.
I can totally understand some degree of brand loyalty and I can also understand that you stick with a dealer that looks after you, but when I read on here how people have had the same brand of machine for generations and wear all ther merchandise alarm bells start ringing.
One place i worked ran anything and everything, If they needed a new machine, they got them all out on demo, used them, then bought the right machine for the job. The colour mattered not one dot. What mattered was, is this the right machine? Can the dealer support it? Is the deal competitive?
If a manufacturer knows that people will buy their product with out looking elsewhere they would be foolish to not charge extra. Like I said, it is a tax on stupidity.
Posted 2/20/2013 14:05 (#2912916 - in reply to #2912360) Subject: RE: John Deere vs Case ih.
Let me guess...you have been buying red for generations and would not look at anything else? Pretty good guess..
I am not running down red, I think they make some great stuff, just saying there are reasons for what people do besides color blindness-you apparently thing most farmers are dumber than you and only do it because of color.
I have red tractor on my place-just not your color red. Also have some non-deere stuff-IH trucks.
But for me it is service, when I started farming IH Dealer was clearly not interested in my business, I bought an 8 year old drill-first trip to dealer was told it was too old and they could not get parts. Always treated me rudely. I had a few other implments-that when upgraded went anything but red-primarily because of the closest dealer and lack of support for older equipment.
Deere dealer has been fantastic, parts lookup on line for past 8 years-including checking dealer stock. Add in the fact that I have 3 eere dealerships closer than 1 IH and 5 before I get to 2nd IH. I have a lot more reasons for being green than the color of the paint.
Also like the fact that Deere is not sending its profits overseas and that they don't reorganize every few years. Can walk into dealership and have parts for my 30 year old stuff on the counter by tomorrow am.
Posted 2/20/2013 09:18 (#2912390 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
When we bought our 8120 combine the John Deere equal was cheaper. Case claim was the case ivt on the rotor was more expensive than belts. I was asking to see if there was a price difference or maybe jd didn't want our business. $319,000 for the jd vs similar case. 284,000.
Posted 2/20/2013 15:59 (#2913093 - in reply to #2912390) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
You're going to get a lot of red v green opinions but maybe not any useful information. One thing I can tell you is I just bought an 8310R after several magnums and 100% red for 6-8 years. The actual price apples to apples if there is such a thing (PS trans, susp front, lux cab, front duals, as close as they can be to each other) was $8,000 more for green. This is outright price no trade. That's about as real numbers as I can get. I then decided on IVT so was a little more yet... or a lot... The best deal isn't always the cheapest, the cheapest isn't always the best, the most expensive either. They ALL break down. Most of the time on this site, once you sift through the clutter, the answer seems to be go with the dealer that can potentially make you the happiest in terms of service after the sale. If there were one CLEAR winner, wouldn't we all have it? tl;dr $35,000 seems a bit much
Posted 2/20/2013 09:21 (#2912397 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
South Western Ontario, Canada
Each have their pros and cons. Each will do the same task that it was intended for. Why is deere more money..... The green paint is expensive!!!
Deere can and will drop their price on equipment to make sales.
Prime Example is our planter, priced out deere,case and white(Massey or whatever they are called today)
Deere made the sale after coming to the table with the best number.
Hope the deere will be as good as the case it replaced.
Tell the the dealer to sharpen his numbers or your going elsewhere
Posted 2/20/2013 09:27 (#2912408 - in reply to #2912397) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
If you are dead set on owning a JD it sometimes helps to shop between different JD dealers. On our last machinery deal, the dealer we usually go with was $125,000 more then the next one down the road. Needless to say our usual dealer got a rude awakening.
Posted 2/20/2013 09:56 (#2912461 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
Have some of everything here. I think it becomes a status thing for some guys. Who cares what color your equipment is as long as it does a good job for you. $10000 is a good chunk of change that could be invested in growing crop and have way more return than having that pretty green paint. Invest in my crops more than the status of matching paint of any color.
Posted 2/20/2013 10:07 (#2912494 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
North Central Montana (Conrad)
Many factors to consider with buying equipment. Alot of them have been said here. I would like to add a few more things may come into play.
1. Experience with a certain brand - If you have worked alot with red/green/yellow, you will feel more comfortable with another.
2. Experience with a certain dealership - Same as above, but when a bad occurance happens you remember as well.
3. Service and parts departments at dealership - if I spend this 300,000 are they going to be there to back me up?
I have seen it here where farmers will go 100's of miles to another dealer due to a bad experience and don't care what it costs. Also, One farmer is green and the dealer is set on a price and the red dealer is negotiable and beats the green price by alot, ALOT, the farmer does not want to go red but the money just says he has to. Or should I say the banker says he has to. Just an example, works in the reverse as well depending on your dealer.
Posted 2/20/2013 10:44 (#2912569 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
I like the question. This forum is a good place to find answers. Maybe the the answer is more expensive paint, better product, service or options. I believe cdm975 just wants to learn. He owns both, that tells me he had no intention of starting a war.
Posted 2/20/2013 11:07 (#2912616 - in reply to #2912574) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
Ringwood, IL (NEIL)
I get that you are paying for the name to a point. At a certain point in time they earned that name / reputation. The real question is are they still building a superior product. I don't have enough experience around new enough equipment to answer that. Ih had the name recognition / reputation and then lost it to Deere. Can it or will it happen again? I don't think there's any doubt they both make quality products for the most part I just wonder if the added cost of a Deere will continue to prove to many to be worth it.
Posted 2/20/2013 16:04 (#2913103 - in reply to #2912616) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
Wills Point, TX
I bleed green have fifteen old two cylinders and several new green ones but for me I've started buying red ones last few years because of the dealership and I use to work for this dealer when they had just a few stores they were great and always appreciated when u bought something but since in my opinion deer has pushed out the one two dealer for the multi owned ones to fix prices like I said my opinion I do not go there I drive a hour north to sulphur springs to buy red were they say thank you and appreciate your business so I feel at least my money is going to someone that works with you not someone that thinks here is the price you want it fine u don't fine its your choice
Posted 2/20/2013 11:20 (#2912635 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: RE: John Deere vs Case ih.
On the Delmarva
In my experience the only thing that Deere is superior to with the other brands is marketing. Yes I have some Deere equipment, but over all I have found that those things Deere claims to be better at than the rest is equal to the others.
Posted 2/20/2013 12:05 (#2912710 - in reply to #2912635) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
Ringwood, IL (NEIL)
Ackerman, and that would be what specifically other than barely staying afloat in the lean 80s when the others couldnt? My question is are they truly worth the premium? The 80s were 30 years ago. Times a d quality is constantly changing
Posted 2/20/2013 16:52 (#2913195 - in reply to #2912710) Subject: We flip flop all the time. Not hung on one brand.
Eastern VA. No such thing as too many Magnums.
I think the green tractors were far superior in the 70s and 80s. The 90s goes to Magnums. I honestly don't really like any new tractors. I have some 305s, but they have some annoying characteristics, so do the newer 30 series and R series Deere's. At this point we like big tractors red and little tractors green (120 hp on down) I still like Deere planters. I like everything about the red sprayers, but they're too low for sweet corn, and they have too much stuff hanging down unprotected. So I keep a green sprayer. CaseIH doesn't even offer some full line stuff, like bush hogs. So we use green ones for that too. I rarely buy anything new, and usually when i'm done with it, the resale is a non issue. LOL. So I just buy whatever I can find at a deal. I absolutely love 7250s and 8950s. I would give anything if they'd make a up to date Magnum 8950 with more 3 pt capacity. I might try a Deere whenever they get rid of that awful particulate filter and go to DEF.
Posted 2/20/2013 12:07 (#2912715 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
A few years ago I was ready to purchase a used MFD Magnum but thought I better check out a comparable Deere. The only comparble Deere I could find close was 2WD but same horsepower. The Deere was $10,000 more. I like Deere but geezzzz..........
Posted 2/20/2013 12:45 (#2912789 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
Have/had both here. Folks say "but deere has so much better resale". Not really the case as much any more and in my experience when you figure the extra starting price, along with interest on that extra price, you HAVE to have better resale just to come out. Both have darn good products but if they perform the same in the field I would rather tie up my money elsewhere other than a paint color.
Posted 2/20/2013 13:32 (#2912869 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
We're certainly not hooked on any particular brand, in fact there's no 2 pieces of gear on the farm of the same brand. As far as tractors go, we've had Internationals, Fords, Masseys. We demo'd a JD in the mid 80's, the dealer knew full well that we intended to plow up some pastures and should have had it prepared for just that if they wanted to make a sale, made it about 50' and the nose went straight in the air. Ended up buying 2 Fords that year. I have driven some JD's since and they seem comfortable, but not worth what they want for them, plus the local dealer is not easy to get along with.
Currently run a Massey 5460 and a F-NH 6635 very pleased with both.
Posted 2/20/2013 13:58 (#2912911 - in reply to #2912880) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
Ringwood, IL (NEIL)
I certainly understand and support the idea of American company support. Not going to lie and say I didn't wish case ih wasn't still an American company. As for the ad, that was pure marketing and pandering, nothing more. Don't mistake that for a pat on the back, that was just how they got you to pay attention to what they were selling
Posted 2/20/2013 16:38 (#2913155 - in reply to #2912911) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
bigfarmer1486, was well aware of Ram trucks before this add as well as their sell tactic,BUT you did NOT see other mfgs. spending the money they did honoring the farmer(pandering or not). Kudos to them. Money could have been spent showing their vehicle as the last thing left on dooms day or some super model draped all over the hood. Instead they took a bold approach mentioning 2 names that are bad words to the general public any more--God and Farmer. For that I applaud them pandering or not. Will it make me go buy a new Ram truck? Probs not but at least they show a little respect to their customer base. Deere, Ford, Monsanto, GM, Dupont, etc. could've run the same ad but didn't .
Posted 2/20/2013 15:15 (#2913024 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
I buy deere because I have a good relationship with the my salesman (who goes above and beyond) and their service is top notch. I have nothing against red at all, green is just what I'm comfortable with, it's what my father had when I took over and I guess I have continued on the path (we did have a blue 4 wheeler by the way until 2 years ago). I do feel that when I'm ready to retool on sprayers (I have an older patriot now) I'll probably stick with a partiot or go to a Hagie. Certainly not married one brand but it does simplify things when it comes to AMS, etc-
Posted 2/20/2013 15:15 (#2913025 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: RE: John Deere vs Case ih.
Well my only comments if jd is made only in America you better start looking a hole lot closer, as with those home owners that think if it has jd on it its simply the best just smoke and mirrors, just saying if the company would drop the name case from the name it would help this company greatly to must go back to IH in name more recognizable to the bigger name in ag than case was but just saying.
Posted 2/20/2013 16:15 (#2913119 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
For older machines Deere has better resale but start looking at newer ones and its really tough to see much of a difference. Over the years my family has had everything from AC, Oliver, IH, Case and of course Case IH and Deere. The reason why you won't find a Deere on any of these farms is strictly because the rest have delivered a better return on investment. Now we don't have brand new equipment but I pay close attention to farm equipment and tend to beable to tell quality when I see it or run it. I have seen many green guys go red just in the last couple years and the only guys that have bought green are the ones that are to stubborn to look at other brands. It may just be me but it seems guys running red are more open minded to try different equipment from diffrent brands where as green guys are more like this is what I have and even if they're junk I'm never going to something else. Just saying...
Posted 2/21/2013 22:03 (#2916794 - in reply to #2913294) Subject: Re: John Deere vs Case ih.
It only costs to go Green once, after that resale, reliability, networking give the edge to Deere. And i like still pulling up to only one fuel tank to fuel up.....at least til sometime next year....also the engine runs cooler than the previous series.
Posted 2/21/2013 16:05 (#2915742 - in reply to #2912285) Subject: RE: John Deere vs Case ih.
dealer support, parts, sales staff. We bounce between two deere dealers. One 15 miles east and one 24 miles west. Titan (which has us surrounded) is horrible in those three aspects. We've tried and now do as little business as possible with them. I know of many people around us who switched from case to cat or deere in the last 5 years