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sugar and bugs
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Novato
Posted 2/5/2013 18:51 (#2877224)
Subject: sugar and bugs



NWIOA
is there a relationship between sugar content of plants and bugs?

does a corn plant with higher sugar content resist pests better?

thanks for any imput...

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GMH7287
Posted 2/5/2013 19:06 (#2877284 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Western Kentucky
A high brix reading in plants (high sugar) gives the the ability to fight off insects because they have no ability to digest high levels of sugar. They simply get diarea and die. The only exception to this is aphids since they can regulate sugar. I have killed potato bugs, ear worms, Japanese beetles and army worms without killing beneficial insects and without spraying insecticides.www.instagro.netProducts/ Insta cal plus

Edited by GMH7287 2/5/2013 19:12
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SDFarmboy
Posted 2/5/2013 19:14 (#2877318 - in reply to #2877284)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


GMH:

You seem to just be posting as a seller. Caution, this guy is just a peddler. So, ignore. Why do we have to put up with this stuff.
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GMH7287
Posted 2/5/2013 19:19 (#2877339 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Western Kentucky
I am also a farmer, been raising crops for a while now. I know my facts. Why did you even comment? I just gave the web sight. No one has to look if they don't want to.
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usafarmer
Posted 2/5/2013 19:50 (#2877445 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: RE: sugar and bugs


Yes to answer both your questions.
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Foliardud
Posted 2/5/2013 20:05 (#2877501 - in reply to #2877445)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


SE MN
When looking at using sugar always review your tissue, or sap samples for nitrate levels this will attract insects as well,
We always add ammonia along with insecticide
Example corn program;
Molasses 4 lbs. per acre
Aqua Ammonia (21 to 26 Balm) 2 to 4 qts. per acre
Hero 2 to 4 ounces per acre
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Novato
Posted 2/5/2013 20:11 (#2877527 - in reply to #2877501)
Subject: sugar & hydrogen peroxide



NWIOA
I met a guy that raises 50 acres of various berries and he just uses 5 gal of water and a half pound of sugar per acre to control bugs....nothing else....

and he also uses hydrogen peroxide in solution for fungicide...nothing else...

he has been doing it this way for years....

has anyone here done something similar with COC?
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GMH7287
Posted 2/5/2013 20:47 (#2877669 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Western Kentucky
Makes sense to me. The reason we use calcium with different sugars mixed in is because calcium rich plant tissue is associated with high sugar or brix readings. As far as hydrogen peroxide to control fungus I find it very interesting. Copper is what I have seen response from with fungus on a variety of crops.
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miken
Posted 2/6/2013 15:50 (#2879353 - in reply to #2877669)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Northwest Ohio
Hydrogen peroxide can dry up fungal leasions & spores on the leaf surface, ex. powdery mildew. Baking soda will also. The key is coverage need 100%, who has a sprayer than can achieve 100% coverage of all above ground plant parts? If you are organic, i guess there aren't many other options! As for copper, it is only helpful with bacterial diseases! It has little effect on most fungal diseases. Most bacterial diseases are now copper tollerant or resistant from over exposure to copper. It does make you feel good to spray, copper, hydrogen peroxide & baking soda though! As for COC, that is Crop Oil Concentrate in my book & it has nothing to do with sugar or brix levels. It is a great leaf burner though! That is why most burning herbicides want COC with them. Good Luck!
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Novato
Posted 2/6/2013 18:28 (#2879664 - in reply to #2879353)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs



NWIOA
CORN ON CORN
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agriholic
Posted 2/6/2013 08:21 (#2878590 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Minnesota
You know, USDA-ARS did a study recently that looked at providing insect predators (ladybugs) with a concentrated carbohydrate source in addition to their diet of aphids actually led to healthier populations. http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2013/130111.htm
I personally was always pretty skeptical about the whole "adding sugar to spray tank", but it appears that there is some scientific merit to the idea. I am not sure about how having a higher brix content in the plant would impact beneficial predators.
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Novato
Posted 2/6/2013 09:31 (#2878762 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: RE: sugar or lack of...



NWIOA
it is my understanding that bugs/pests are attracted to plants that are low sugar or no sugar content....is that off base?
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miken
Posted 2/6/2013 15:41 (#2879339 - in reply to #2878762)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Northwest Ohio
Novato - you are correct. Raising brix (sugar) levels in plants will deter / kill the feeding insects. What levels it takes I am not sure. Insects are diabetic & too much sugar will kill them. Insects have ways to detect the sugar levels in plants. They will seek out & kill weakened plants.
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aray63
Posted 2/6/2013 15:42 (#2879341 - in reply to #2878762)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


barry county mi
I grew some old reeds yellow dent and bloody butcher a year before we went to no chems and the corn borer and other bug we all over the plants then 3 years later we planted the same corns and had used molass in strater ond folier and that corn basely was 99,9 free of any bugs hard to believe the first of the old corn we grew we sorted by hand and better than one half was cow feed the later that got the sugar or molass less than 3% disgarted we use it to make corn meal. so in my op it will probably help you ps our soybeans were right cross dirt road had a very few spider mites maybe 10 feet in and the neighbors feild was devestated with bugs .archie
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berryman
Posted 2/6/2013 16:31 (#2879412 - in reply to #2879341)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Stanchfeild Mn
Have raised a few berrys myself over the years. Hydrogen peroxide has no label for applications on food crops and the resulting fruit would be considered adulterated . There have been studies on fungal pathogens using hydrogen peroxide and it will work and work well but there are labeled products with the same properties that are allowed. Natural sugars or brix is an excellent indication of plant health, healthy plants do have less pest problems for sure. Dont look for magic potions in bottles or bags work on plant culture , fertility, plant stress, ect. Sometimes you need to use a little spray for heavy insect problems there are plenty of low impact effective products both conventual and organic Thanks Dave
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Alberta Pioneer
Posted 2/6/2013 16:37 (#2879427 - in reply to #2879412)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Warburg, AB
miken, I think COC is corn-on-corn in this example.

Also, copper has been shown to "help" prevent Ergot, that's the only instance of effectiveness against fungi that I can think of.

Anyone have any idea if sugar/simple carbs in the sprayer has an effect on the efficacy of chemicals?

Bruce
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berryman
Posted 2/6/2013 16:53 (#2879457 - in reply to #2879427)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Stanchfeild Mn
Have been some discussions i think the conclusion i heard might work to help as a sticker thats about it though. Maybe someone else knows more though.. Thanks Dave
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Novato
Posted 2/6/2013 18:27 (#2879654 - in reply to #2879412)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs



NWIOA
Food grade hydrogen peroxide is commonly used in food manufacturing....usually 35% solution or above. Readily available through any wholesale supplier of food manufacturing supplies. USDA approved. Approved for use with Organic certified crops.

http://www.omri.org/simple-opl-search/results/hydrogen%20peroxide

also FDA approved as GRAS (generally recognized as safe) in food formulations.



Edited by Novato 2/6/2013 18:48
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berryman
Posted 2/6/2013 18:42 (#2879703 - in reply to #2879654)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Stanchfeild Mn
Im pretty sure that food grade hydrogen peroxide does not have a legal federal label on the container for the use in growing crops . applying a product off label is a risk i would not recomend but to each their own Thanks Dave
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berryman
Posted 2/6/2013 18:48 (#2879722 - in reply to #2879703)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Stanchfeild Mn
Did a quik search of your link no label for field applications that i can find , allthough search down a little you will find oxi-date that product has a legal label for field apps and is very simular to food grade hydrogen peroxide as we have used it here Thanks Dave
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usafarmer
Posted 2/6/2013 18:49 (#2879723 - in reply to #2879412)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


So I can not use molasses on my crops?
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Novato
Posted 2/6/2013 18:52 (#2879736 - in reply to #2879723)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs



NWIOA
not sure about molasses....but I updated my post above about food grade with some USDA and FDA links on hydrogen peroxide.

Not sure about how much molasses costs, but the berry guy in canada uses just a half pound sugar or so in 5 gal. of water....per acre. he swears by it. Same with the hydrogen peroxide. Does not use any other controls on bugs or fungus.

Edited by Novato 2/6/2013 18:59
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berryman
Posted 2/6/2013 18:59 (#2879753 - in reply to #2879723)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Stanchfeild Mn
Dont have any knowledge on that one , I do know about hydrogen peroxide though ill just say i wont ever have to explain that again to the inspector, We have been checked and everything that goes on my crop has the federal blessing now , here i have a label for the use allways. I think with molasses if might not be considered a pesticide maybe along the lines of a foliar fertilizer as its not being used on a fungus,insect, weed product Thanks Dave
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Novato
Posted 2/6/2013 18:58 (#2879752 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: Berries....



NWIOA
this guy in Canada is using his berries for wines he processes and sells nationally. He uses machinery for picking and freezes everything....saves huge on labor, and sells at a premium price. Best use of 50 acres I have heard of yet.
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berryman
Posted 2/6/2013 19:03 (#2879764 - in reply to #2879752)
Subject: RE: Berries....


Stanchfeild Mn
Can be high gross on berry crops, can also be high risk , high input, hard to get much real insurance , plantings can be very high cost to establish If it was easy everone would be doing it Thanks Dave
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Jim Dandy
Posted 2/7/2013 13:26 (#2881769 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs



NW Illinois Stephenson county
I attended a Midwest Bio-Ag meeting yesterday and they explained WHY most insects stay away from plants with high sugar content. Healthy plants have higher sugar levels because they have adequate available calcium, sulfur, and trace minerals which are very important to make complete chains of protein. Most insects can NOT digest complete proteins. So they attack less healthy plants with lower sugar content that have incomplete proteins which the insects CAN digest. When the soil has shortages of some minerals you end up growing plants with lower sugar contents and are vulnerable to insect attacks. I have had less pressure from potato leafhoppers and I don't need to spray for them as often in alfalfa.
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Novato
Posted 2/8/2013 07:49 (#2883538 - in reply to #2881769)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs



NWIOA
perfect....right on the money....thank you....
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southernokie
Posted 2/7/2013 23:38 (#2883203 - in reply to #2877224)
Subject: Re: sugar and bugs


Availability of water and nightly high temps here seems to be the 'trigger' for increased insect pressure.....that would imply plant stress induced from lack of water, excessive transpiration, and suppressed nutrient uptake attract insects.....sap sugar content should deplete under those conditions but hardly the 'cause' of the 'effect' and more of a 'caveat' IMO. Insect pressure can also be horrid across an entire landscape during the first growing season following a major drought with an interim mild winter....recovering plants (perennial and annual) may appearhealthy but still under duress and 'bug magnets'.

Plants seem to use water efficiently and perform very well under the MBA program and soil tests on otherwise poor soils look good after long term use, but it's not a bullet proof program during drought nor one where insecticides may not be warranted. If the plants are stressed you'll still have bugs no matter the 'program'. If there were a 'bullet proof' program, then I would suspect universal acceptance of such.

Some may find it interesting that we have first instar grasshoppers present in native lands, crop fields, and pastures despite it's the month of Feb and winter has been 'close to normal' and blister beetle larvae numbers should be abundant in soil. In most all predator/prey systems, predator numbers lag behind prey numbers and vice versa to restore 'balance' in the ecosystem. When the beetle population rises to a critical # then hopper numbers will move toward balance. My point is that insect populations (both antagonistic and beneficial) flucuate with weather and climate change which may necessitate 'added control measures' or 'patience' in some years even though one has other items in order during 'most years'.
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